Kannibul, I read some of your points and they are good. This is how it works:

You install and aftermarket part on your car, lets say the Intake. You got the intake from a professional company that work and have years of experience building those parts. Something breaks on your car, lets say a Sensor goes bad. You take it to the dealer, they cannot tell you, that your warranty is voided because you install the intakes and thats maybe the problem, without even taking your car in. Thats when the law protects you, they have to take your car, like normal, and perform the diagnostic. They come back to you and tell you "yes the intake cost the problem on the sensor" by LAW they have to tell you in writing what they did, their test and how they got into that conclusion.

Then you take that documentation to Stillen, and tell them "your item cost me this damage, here is the dealer report, now you have to pay for it" Stille is going to defend themself in writing that their product has nothing to do with that. Thats when you hire and attorney and someone has to pay for that, but you will have the two big ones, Nissan and Stillen figthing for their rights.

And remember, this is for something that is worth going trough all that trouble. Thats your desicion. But with my old car, I had a Eclipse 4G, I moded the car with springs, intake, exahust, lambo doors, paint, radio system, LSD, wheels, and they never gave me problems after I explained the law to the manager. But everything with respect, like adults, and no fights.

So is really up to you.

If you are very concern, change to Amsoil synthetic, you should see a slightly lower temp. They also tolerate heat much better than dino oil and are capable of 250-280F easily

I'm definitely not an expert, but the threads that claim 'soft metals' often list those to be 1) aluminum, 2) zinc and 3) tin. I looked up the melting point of these metals and aluminum was >600C, zinc >400C and tin just over 200C. I'd be amazed to hear any internal engine components are made nearly entirely of tin. Thus, any component deemed 'soft' by these threads is really not at any risk of melting at engine temps under 300C. I doubt they'd be very deformable so far from their melting points as well.

Let me throw an very good example guys about the Oil and Warranty.

Are you guys planning to go to the dealer and request the Nissan Special Oil for the oil change? The manual says they have that special oil to protect your engine!

Now here is the question, should Nissan void your warranty if something happen to the engine, because you are not using the oil that Nissan Says you have to use?

Unfortunately I really wasn't addressing the oil cooler question...I was addressing strictly the confusion about the MM-Act. But to extend my answer to address the question. I agree that from the OEM perspective the added 3rd-party oil cooler would NOT be viewed by the OEM as a "replacement" part because it isn't part of the stock configuration to begin with and under the strictest interpretation it would be considered a "modification".

Personally I think the OEM would be hard pressed finding any evidence of something being out of OEM spec TOLERANCE unless the OEM can show that there is a known and provable damage to an engine that a lowered temperature of 30 to 40 degrees can cause.

The only way I could see them making an argument would be based upon the season of the year, specifically the winter time. They might be able to claim that as a result of the added oil cooler the oil was prevented from reaching an effective viscosity so as to be able to lubricate the engine internals properly.

Even in this case the burdon would still be on the mnaufacturer to have to show how the addition of the oil cooler is 100% the cause of whatever the problem is.

So I believe there is some certain wiggle room here for a possible TEST case to extend the MM-Act to include situations such as this. It must be understood by the car owner however that this action would be a gamble with no certain outcome because it is what it is...a TEST CASE.

Personally I would want to protect my investment so I would probably add the oil cooler and then take my chances in court because there is an argument that can be made for engine damaage as a result of excessive and sustained heat due to lack of any cooling device in the stock design of the car. Perhaps a good OEM negligence claim as well.

Thanks. I was actually much more concerned with the engines internals at higher temps than the ability of the oil to hold up to those temps. I'm going to stick with the Nissan Esther for the time being. Changing at 3750, I doubt it will be experiencing serious breakdown at that mileage.

John

I guess my point/angle is that they can claim that the modifications to part A, exceeded design specifications for part B, causing part B to fail.

They could easily attribue any type engine modification to any driveline failure, and you lose your case.

In the case of wheels - people that are adding spacers - when the wheel bearings or ball joints fail, they could easily say that it changed the load on the wheel bearings/ball joints to exceed design specifications, and you're left holding the bag. Same thing with stretched tires and blowing the sidewalls...


Then there's the angle they can take with regards to abuse. If you damage the CV joints in the rear axles - wether you modified something or not, they could easily say that it was due to abuse.

The Act does have some angles where it can protect a consumer in the event of a warranty claim where something in the car has been modified - but there are still some very big loopholes...in other words, I wouldn't depend on the Magnuson-Moss Act alone...

You are right on those points. And yes because some dealers know about this law, they always try to find the way to blame everyhing on the mods or alteration. THe thing is (and this happened to me a lot with my previous car) that if they look at your car, open the hood, or see any modification, they cannot void the warranty of the car.

You know every law has its flaws they never cover everthing they have to. I guess thats when your personally has to come in place. In my case, the knowledge of the car, the knowledege of the parts I installed on my car, the law and most of it the respect against the Service Manager and the techs, helped me a lot.

Cause even if the law protect you, the dealer can bring the card of "we have the right to deny service and dont deal with this customer" :(

Luckily, the warranty doesn't lock you into one dealer :)

thats true, w my previous car, I went trough 3 dealers until I found one that had smart people in it.

My Sump cooler idea in the DIY. No warranty issues....:tup:

http://www.the370z.com/diy-section-d...your-sump.html

It's pretty amazing, but my temperature issues are essentially completely resolved on the street. Today was 94F and spirited driving home from work for 20 min didn't get the temps over 220F. 2500mi on the car running Nissan Ester Oil.

It was in the high 90's here a few days ago, and I broke 240. It does seem to be running "less hot" the more miles I put on it. I wonder if there is any truth to the "more break-in" you have, the lower the temps, as some have suggested? Had I pushed it a little harder that day, I could have it 250.

John

It was 101F here yesterday, though my car said it was 112F outside ;)

Pretty bad when your car sits for 4 hours, and the oil temp is still above the minimum, and the coolant temp is still around where it normally sits!

Anyhow, with some spunky driving I cracked 220...in fact, I've yet to get it to 240.

The guys doing so must be REALLY pushing the car, or driving illegally on the streets - IMO...

I really wish people would stop pushing the "illegal" angle. For one, most people drive "illegally" on a regular basis, at least around here. Just try driving the speed limit on Beltway 8 and see what I mean. It's just a matter of the degree of illegality you're pushing.

But perhaps more importantly: pushing the car hard enough to heat up the oil does not automatically equate to driving "illegally". The two issues are orthogonal, and it's well within the realm of possibility to overheat the engine without breaking a single traffic law.

I am netural on the oil cooler warranty issue. I do want to say that modern oil can run at high temperature with no problem. matter of fact, modern cars run at high temperature because they are more efficient and therefore less emission. 210 oil temp is common in new cars and it is completely okay if your car is design for it. rings are usually built looser on these motors, allowing them to expand under high temp. if you go too low on it, you actually put more stress on motor. this is why there is an opearting temperature, not just low temperature is better.

as for oil temperature rising quickly, it has as much to do with rpm than anything else. guys who are constantly holding the car in the 4500 rpm will be way higher than guys who redline and then cruise back at 2500rpm. rpm builds heat, oil is used to lower the heat.

all the complaining is the reason why cars don't have accurate water and oil temp gauge now, I think people need to relax a little. unless you track the car, I would look at this as a concern rather than panic.

bored at work.....

OK, has your oil temp gone over 230F by going 75 in a 65?

I'm saying that someone who is going over that has to be doing something illegal - more illegal than those who typically drive the same stretch of road(s)...

And, how exactly does one "push" the car to the point of overheating the oil and going into limp mode?

I don't drive mine like a saint (at all), and I've yet to...

Oil temperature has nothing to do with vehicle speed, it has everything to do with ambient temperature, engine revs, engine load, and airflow to the radiator/engine. To give a silly example, if you were to drive down the road in first gear at 6,500 rpm for several minutes straight (which is way under most street speed limits, much less highway), the oil would overheat in most ambient conditions. At that low vehicle speed you're not getting much cooling to the engine, and the high revs are going to cook the oil, and no laws have been violated.

Following the same logic it *is* possible, on a hot day driving around on smaller streets with lots of uphill, to keep the revs high while nailing it around a twisty set of corners and streets without exceeding the speed limit, and overheat the oil. If you're a particularly smooth driver you could even do it without attracting much attention or appearing to be doing anything reckless. Most people won't, but it can be done.

"It's illegal to overheat your car" is nonsensical, don't give Nissan ammo to avoid the issue with.

I'll take auto-cross as an extreme example of low speed driving. Our auto-cross site has a speed limit of 70 mph, we basically drive the whole course in second gear. There is lots of hard acceleration and hard braking with the rpm consistently in the mid to high range. At the last event I was hitting 260 degrees in 100 seconds. If I were to keep driving like that the temperature would keep rising and eventually hit limp mode, but fortunately auto-cross has a long cool down period between runs.

I could drive half as hard on the street and still get there, but it would likely take 3 times as long. Acceleration is what generates the most heat as that is when there will be the biggest bang (fuel combustion) and when the VVEL is the busiest. So on the street, switching between full throttle acceleration and braking you can still hit limp mode in no time, speed is irrelevant.

:iagree:

I don't drive illegally, unless you consider "going with the flow" on the interstate about 10 over illegal, which everyone does. I am a very safe driver, cognizant of conditions, as well as traffic density and flow. Accelerating through the gears, winding it out and observing speed limits, just enjoying the car (not granny shifting at 2500 RPM), will in high 90 degree heat run this thing up to 250 or 260, as wstar states. You could encounter traffic and have no or minimal airflow, after some nice driving, and it will shoot up as well.

John

That's a BIG negative and to be honest I'm sick of people telling me I'm driving illegally because my temps are high. Either you haven't read this whole thread or you're ignoring everyone who posts who says they have high oil temps without pushing their car.

My Z sits at 220 as a BASE oil temp. Doing anything more than 6th gear cruising (5th gear cruising for example) will cause temps to hit 240+ in very short order. This is just cruising on the freeway. Forget any kind of sporty driving.

I'll add some info.

Yesterday on my 30 minute drive home my oil temp easily reached a steady235.
It was 102 degrees.
My speed varied between 50-70 depending on the traffic. I'm babying it right now since it only has 800 miles, so there was no "shenanigans" involved.

I can believe it's very easy to push it higher without doing anything illegal when it's hot outside... simple thermodynamics...

Seriously curious...I wonder how many people on here have actually triggered the "limp" mode during street driving?

220 is my normal base temp as well, anything outside cruising along and up they go......... how hi depends on RPMs attained and for how long, as well as air flow and ambient temperatures. 260 is possible without breaking the law or driving recklessly.

John

It's actually really difficult. Although it's pretty easy to reach 240-250, it takes quite a bit more to reach 280. I certainly haven't done it on the street yet, although it's possible if traffic wasn't in the way. Basically just have to accelerate, brake, corner, over and over a few times for several minutes.

Guys I was invited by Nissan to participate in one on one interview with regards to my z. They are aware of the oil temp issues that's going around our forum. They said there is a factory oil cooler already available for around 400 bucks and installation is I think about 400 bucks also. They said if you don't track the z then you absolutely don't need to get this oil cooler but if you do track it then you should get it. That's from Nissan. End of story. It's your choice if you track or not . Period. Stop debating, there is no sense. You Ytack you get an oil coller, you don't track don't.

I don't track, and I have yet to actually trigger limp mode, but I'm still getting a cooler (going in Tuesday I hope, along with more oil capacity in general). Ambient temp on the car display today was 101. Cruising in high gear it stabilized around 230, which is fine if it would stay there. One little half-mile open stretch with some nice curves came up, and I burned through it at the limit and then accelerated up onto a highway ramp at full throttle. Checked the oil temp as I was bringing it down to a good coasting speed on the highway: 255F. Then I backed off and cruised in 7th under the speed limit a while to get it back to 230.

There's nothing wrong with 255 really, as an occasional burst, but I wouldn't want to sustain that kind of temp, as it affects oil viscosity and oil life. So right now, in the interests of keeping the oil (and thus the engine) in good shape my driving is limited by oil temps. I have to back off and let the car cool occasionally, and/or I have to pop the hood and fan-cool the car when I get home before I shut it down. I don't want to be doing that, and frankly shouldn't have to. Luckily the aftermarket has fixes :)

:iagree:

What cooler are you putting in Tuesday?

John

Stillen's original (current) cooler kit, + AAM's oil pan spacer to add more capacity to the system.

Do you have the information on this cooler, part number etc. Not aware of any nissan oil cooler besides the nismo - c part that is $760

I live in Miami Beach and I drive about 33 miles to Fort Lauderdale. The afternoon temperatures have been 85-90 F and in 6 gear doing 65 mph and the engine revs at 2,500 my temperature gauge indicates 180-190 F. Since my car is breaking in I do not take it beyond 4,000 rpm.

The highest temperature I have seen was 220 F while stuck in a traffic jam on the causeway to the beach.

:iagree:

I'm with ya, we all have been waiting on Nissan to announce a cooler for this car that is approved for dealer installation and won't void the warranty. Any news is welcome.

John

I don't know the part number because during the interview they told me that there is already a nissan cooler available so I presumed that there is one already. Maybe we can ask the dealerships but I will see if I can get hold of the Senior Engineer that told me. I was in the Regional Corporate Office of Nissan in Costa Mesa California for that interview in fact I was with another Z owner from Whittier if he is a member on this forum......

As far as anyone knows (unless you've just heard about something new) there's only one cooler from Nissan (and it's a Nismo, part # 21300-SS370), which is $750-ish+ depending on the markup at whoever you buy it from, has a larger Setrab core than the 19-row we've seen in some other kits, but no thermo plate.

Is not having a thermo plate bad?

It's not strictly necessary in warmer climates, where a cooler is most useful anyways, but for the cost of the Nismo unit I would've expected one. The non-thermo plate always flows all of your oil through the cooler. The thermo one blocks off the cooler when the oil is cold, and gradually opens up the path to the cooler as the temps rise (should be fully open at 180 I believe on most we've seen for this car). Without a thermo plate, you really need to wait for the oil to warm up a bit before you use the engine too hard (pushing way high PSI cold oil through the cooler isn't great for it or the fittings), and it will take longer to warm up than stock because the cooler doesn't help with that. In a colder climate I'd say it's pretty essential, but I want one even here in TX so I don't have to wait forever on warmup.

:iagree: My last install was sans Thermo plate but I live in Hot NC. On cold days, the time to bring the oil up to temp was "iffy". I went with the thermostatic plate on my 370 install for that reason. It was the most expensive part in the set-up, but total stilll came to a good deal less than the kits on the market..It's easy to piece together a set-up.

Hey guys, something here has crossed my mind, especially with the previous post that is quoted above. And before I ask this question, believe me, I have kept up with this thread very closely.

So here it is, has anyone tested the accuracy of the Oil temp Gauge in the car? It seems that this gauge could be off and reporting higher temps for some and lower temps for others. The reason I ask is primarily due to people having high temps at startup, high temps when driving yet not getting the 'limp mode' and other various reasons.

If the gauge was off then it could be reporting higher temps than actual. I guess the only real way would be to run the spirited test driving, noting the Oil gauge temp, and then draining the oil (or some other way to thermo gauge the temp).

What do you all think about this? Not being a huge car expert, it just seems questionable that with all the same mechanical parts, the one thing that could be off would be the gauges.

~Matt

I brought this up a month or 2 ago since there seems to be a large variation in experiences. Either a bad batch of senders, or gauges could be a factor..

Nissan Oil Cooler Participation Interview
 

Which department/devision from Nissan (i.e. Nissan USA or Nissan Motorsports) inquiried about your 370Z oil temperature issues?

When I drove home from purchasing my 370Z from the Nissan dealership my oil temp increased to 240 degrees in a 35 mile commute. Outside temps varied from 89 - 93 degrees that day. Since then, my 370Z oil temperature during daily driving commute max's out around 220-230 degrees with the outside temperature between 87 - 93 degrees. One would think that living in Florida should be a testbed for oil temps/water temperature issues.

In order for Nissan to receive feedback on the 370Z oil temperature issue; I suggest logging your 370Z commutes by:

• Daily distance traveled
• Daily Outside temperature
• 370Z Water temperature
• 370Z Oil temperature
• Average Speed of daily commute
• Maximum speed/distance during maximum oil temperature of daily commute
• Minimum speed/distance during minimum oil temperature of daily commute
• Time(how long) duration of the maximum oil temperature
• Current odometer reading of 370Z
• Manufacture date

Anyone from Nissan is welcome to add to the bulleted list.