Thanks. I seem to be averaging about the same temps you posted in spirited driving, when the outside air is in the 70 to 75 range. I am at about 1700 miles now, so close to your mileage. This past week we had some unusually cool weather for this time of year, and the temps were in the above ranges. A week earlier, we hit 90, and in that outside temp range I hit 260, and stayed there for about 20 minutes or so. Right after I hit 260, I encountered some rush hour bumper to bumper traffic, and couldn't cruise and force some decent air through the car. It will be interesting to see how the car responds to more 90 degree weather. I am not convinced that past break-in, in 90+ outside temps, that I won't run hot.......... and down here, it is nothing late summer to hit 100 degress for days in a row, with high humidity to boot. Time will tell................

John

yeah im also in the part of so cali where we get 100+ weather
so we shall see how she does when summer actually kicks in

Just another thing to keep in mind...

I was playing with the AC fan being on and off while standing in front of the car. With the AC fan off, the car/radiator fans don't seem to move much air through the grille. However, when you turn on the AC (compressor on or fan only), the velocity of air pulled through the grille increases tremendously. It's actually quite a powerful airflow...vacuum cleaner-like. Knowing this, I keep the fan blowing in the car if I'm ever sitting still on a hot day. Even having the AC working seems to keep the oil temps cooler than having everything turned off completely. I've considered taking out the grille plates on the outside of the fangs to increase the grille area for even better airflow.

mmm..This is good news..

Any Las Vegas or Nevada drivers here..?? Would be nice to hear from you.

Needless to say..I know when my Audi gets hot(or others in the past) I turn on the heat in the car. Gets the fans going. I know a bit masochistic but it works..lol

Rich
ny

I don't know about temps cooling after breakin i nailed 260 today pretty easy on a 10 mile highway jaunt...85 degree weather...2100 miles on my car.

Yeah, I'm interested too. Here in Vegas we get tripple digit temps for several months in a row. Some days it's over 115+ here. I'm just waiting to see how others respond as it gets hotter or how Nissan resolves the issue so I can buy my 370z. I've been holding off for a month now waiting to see how this plays out

This weekend, it looked like I hit 280 on a tight-corner hill climb up Mt. Hamilton. I was pushing the car hard but not full-tilt. Temp was 70 degrees. I had 1100 mi. at the time. In sections with higher speeds (better cooling), I haven't seen over 260.

I'm getting the cooler as soon as I can afford it. If Nissan does a reasonable price on theirs, and if it isn't undersized, I'll probably go that route.

Maybe true, but the G37 has been having these issues since it came out and Nissan ignored it.

I wonder what the conditions for warraty denial with a cooler were? There must be other mitagating factors, such as documented track driving or racing which might void the warranty I would think. It would be a bad legal case, Nissan Motorsports, a department within Nissan North America's marketing department sells a cooler, I belive these coolers are being installed on press cars and even given to Edmonds.com where they write about it. If my warranty was denied solely for having an oil cooler I would bring this up, plus mention the magnerson-moss warranty law.

As far as Nissan doing something about it, Nissan won't unless there is a trend in the warranty rate for engines damaged by excess temperature. Nissan wataches these things like a hawk. However once the trend is noticed, Nissan will study the data and ask field people to collect more data so they can come to a logical and undeniable conclusion of what the root cause of the engine failure is. For all of this investigation to happen takes time. For instance it took Nissan over a year to recognize the problem, collect data, and engineer a solution for the serious and costly oil burning issues that various engines had a few years ago. I don't think oil temps are going to cause much engine failure in the 370Z because limp mode will protect the engine from its owner. Limp mode is an inconveniance to the owner and creates bad buzz on the internet but it saves the engine. There is plenty of bad will going around on the internet about oil temps but that probably won't make a business case enough to add an expensive oil cooler to a car marketed to a cost sensitive customer that is selling poorly.

As far as an oil cooler overcooling the oil, it is bad for the oil to be under 170-180 degrees a lot, not so much for lubrication issues but the water vapor entrapped in the oil won't vaporize and will be homogented in the oil. This combines with some of the stuff in exhaust by-products found in blowby and creates acids which are bad for bearings and other things.

The oils additive package neutralizes these for a while until they become depleted. Thats why short-hop stop and go driving is considered severe duty and has an acellerated oil change interval in most owners manuals.

We have observed in california in our mild climate that the minimal oil temp is 170-180 with a cooler. Other people in cooler climates will probably get lower temps and a thermostat might be a good idea. Mocal makes a thermostat that is easily adapted to exsisting oil coolers.

Or change your oil frequently.

Revs are an issue with oil temp as well. If the engine is pushed towards the redline two things happen, more windage and churning of the oil in the crankcase, this produces heat and more oil being pumped to the top of the motor, less in the sump so a small quantitiy of oil being pumped through the engine over and over. This cause the oil to gain heat. There can be as much as 3 quarts of oil not in the pan due to this at high RPM under some conditions. So at 6000 rpm you might have ok temps but at over 7000 no.

Thats why guys that are autocrossing in short spurt are seeing high oil temps.

I suspected that we could use more oil in the sump given the other heating concerns. I was bit surprised to learn how little oil the 370Z takes as I was expecting at least six (6) quarts. My belief is that both a larger sump and an oil cooler make this engine a better setup.

:iagree: With my cooler I'm up to 6 qts. A deep sump or pan extension would bring that to 7. I just found these low profile scoops on my shelf from an aborted past project.....Low enough profile they might work well modified and mounted to the Lower tray to ventilate the sump...Hmmm....

CAI project in the rear..Stay tuned on that!

http://images47.fotki.com/v1498/phot...MG_1757-vi.jpg

We have found in doing TIme Attacks with the 350Z that a larger sump, pan baffles, big oil cooler and an Accusump was needed to keep the engine alive with serious suspension, aero and sticky tires.

Every bit helps.

Really? Dang so I guess the oil issues continues..mmm. A shame Nissan has ignored this..as not sure any car manufacture can get through bad press(nor should they even in a good economy). I have held off on buying til a solution is found by Nissan..and if not they could lower the price a bit more, if people are going to shell out more of their money for an oil-cooler+install.

mm...I have been on the fence for a 350 or 370(Hurry Nissan fix this..looking for a Silver/sport/6spd)

Rich
ny

Remember this is a 570 whp twin turbo time attack car with big hoosiers or Hankooks. Its the fastest 350Z in the country. Your typical street car or even your typical track driven dual purpose car isnt going to place this sort of demand on the oil system.

That's interesting. I race my 350z HR model and have no overheating issues with the oil or coolant. I have ran in 105+ degree heat, and the temp has only moved half way on the gauge. I used Amsoil and it has done well. Running up to hours at a time. No one has ever mentioned anything about overheating issues with the 350z. The only ones that do are the boosted ones.

The 350Z didn't have an oil temperature gauge, the problem went undetected by many.

On the way home tonight, some spirited driving after warm up, never exceeding 5500 RPM. In this order: spirited driving, crawl in rush hour 10 minutes, more spirited driving, another 5 minutes of stop and go, regular driving another 10 minutes to my home. I hit 250, and the outside temp was 80, sun down in the sky! I would say this doesn't have much to do with break-in. If I can hit 250 at 80 degrees with this kind of driving, wait until the outside temps hit 100.

John

And by "fastest 350Z in the country" I assume you're referring to time attack events on a specific track or set of tracks.

550+whp 350Z TT setups are not uncommon here in the SFBay area. Granted, drivers that can consistently put down good lap times at Sears Point, Laguna Seca, Buttonwillow or Willow Springs are not nearly as common... :tiphat:

You don't need a oil gauge to tell how the temps are. If the temps were a issue the oil would be coming out pretty dark.

That would depend on the oil and how well it is handling the heat, a full synthetic is always going to do better.

These engines have always had hot oil, but the new design has taken it to a new level.

It could be his was just a boast to entice people to attend ZCon this year in hopes of seeing the fastest 350Z in the country!!! :stirthepot:

^^ I didn't say that.

Well, I had my first go at a track today. This oil cooler issue may be moot when street driving in most cases, but it's a real issue with anything on the track. I had to keep backing off as the temp hit 260 to protect the engine as the car is my daily driver.

I did some hotlaps in another 370 driven by a professional, and he essentially said that Nissan $hit the bed by leaving out the oil cooler. One definitely belongs in the car.

On the flip side, the 370Z is a dream on the track. I had a blast with mine, and the laps with the pro were eye openers with showing just what this car can do. My buddy almost puked after two laps with him!

Stillen Cooler on the Track
 

I had my car on the track this weekend as well. I have the Stillen oil cooler kit and it seemed to do the job well. Ambient temperatures were around 98F at Barber Motorsports Park in Birmingham, AL. The temp indicator in the car got as high as 103F but I'm not sure if that was right. On the track, the oil quickly heated up to 260F but never surpassed this point. I pushed the car hard for 4 twently minute sessions on Saturday and Sunday and never had any problems. The oil still looks brand new (Mobil 1 5W30 synthetic) and I never had any limp mode issues. From talking with other drivers of other cars, temps around 260-270 are typical. The oil cooler works, too bad it didn't come on the car...

Here's more anecdotal data. Had to go to a place near Phoenix last Friday, about 525 miles each way. From northern Santa Barbara county, that means most of the trip is a boring run through the desert on the I-10. The temperature was over 100 by the time I hit Palm Springs and stayed between 100 and 105 the rest of the way (about 250 miles). There are several long uphill pulls in that stretch (Indio to the Chiriaco Summit and from the Colorado River nearly all the way to Quartzite are 2 examples) so I figured I'd find out whether my Z has issues. In the heat, I mostly ran between 75 and 85 MPH (except for a few short bursts at higher speed while dusting off folks who thought they wanted to play but who found out they weren't in the same league with a 370Z). BTW, the A/C was on the whole time.

Bottom line is that the oil temperature never got above 238 and then only on long pulls. On average I'd guesstimate that the oil temperature ran around 225. Like I said, this is just my experience with my car and my driving. I make no claims about broader implications. What I will say is that I personally am no longer concerned about oil temperature problems. YMMV.

Spoke with consumer affairs today with no result basically they said the issue is with the engineers, asked about warranty if dealer installed nissan motorsport cooler would the warranty be intact, I really did not get a solid answer and no they will not put that in writing it would be a case by case basis. So sounds like we are in a wait and see mode to see what comes out in the future or go with an aftermarket solution and take our chances. Outside temps around 94 oil temps 240 to 260 range.

Same here, in plus 90 degree heat, I can hit 260..... and that's without redline, I usually never exceed 5500 RPM. I noticed the previous poster in his dessert run never passed 240. I think steady highway driving at 80 to 85, even in a pulling uphill situation, doesn't send the temps rocketing like up and down shifting through the gears, in-town driving........ at least that is my experience. Steady state freeway driving seems to force enough air through, even in 90+ temps, that I don't exceed 230......... get off the freeway and spirited drining in-town ................... hello 260.

John

260 = very bad

I hear ya, that is why the second this happens I back off. Have had it occur 3times now........ waiting on Nissan to do something about this. Hell, I'll buy the damn oil cooler, just make it available, don't gouge us on the price, and continue the warranty if installed by the dealer. IS THIS TOO MUCH TO ASK OF NISSAN?

John

So why is over 250 bad?
 

OK, car noob here. I am trying to understand what is considered good and what is considered bad. I read most of this thread and I see people posting various temps under various conditions. I must say that I can replicate much of what is reported, i.e. 220 with normal street driving, etc.

But every once in a while, I see what appears to be posts that go unchallenged that say 250 or greater = BAD.

What is the objective basis for this "> 250 = BAD" statement? Is there a document from Nissan or some other recognized credible source that indicates that > 250 in the 370Z is bad or is this general automotive common sense (which I have none of I admit - this is why I am asking).

Thanks all - looking forward to insightful responses.

Chris, that's awesome you got it to the track... I know what you mean about the difference between us mere mortals driving, then getting in the passenger seat and letting a pro drive... I had that same experience when I brought my wife's ISF to the Bondurant School... if my wife only knew what we did to the car that day ! ;) In any event, please post a track day thread if you have time ! thanks

What is your basis for saying that 260 is too hot? I spoke with an engineer at Exxon today that claimed Mobil 1 synthetic oil does not even begin to break down until temps are above 400 degrees. He said the oil will perform excellent at 260 degrees. Is there something else in the engine that fails above the aforementioned temperature that I'm not thinking about?

Like I said in my previous post, I tracked my car last weekend at Barber in Birmingham. I have the Stillen cooler; with ambient temps in the high 90s, my oil temp was at 260 by the second lap and stayed there for all 8 twenty minute sessions. I never experienced limp mode...

Also, I inquired about oil temps in other track cars and 260-270 is common even amongst M3s.

Again, why 260?

I'm inclined to believe 260 is fine...

:iagree:

I'm inclined to agree with this conclusion.

1) Limp mode would be set at 260F if Nissan was concerned about engine components at this temp

2) synthetic oil is fine at 260F

3) Nissan engineers have said this temperature is fine

All this about engine components being 'soft' and 'degrading' at 260+ seems to be based on people's experiences with other engines. I have yet to see any hard evidence that the 370's VQ engine has metals with melting points near the 260F mark. Aluminum certainly doesn't melt at this temperature...engine parts would have to be made entirely of very soft metals for this temperature to be an issue.

Of the three metals in the technosquare article, only tin has a low melting point.

Aluminum 660 C
Zinc 420 C
Tin 217 C

I highly doubt any part of the metal in the engine is composed MAINLY of tin. If someone knows differently please post the respective component and its relative composition of tin to provide some reputable evidence towards the contrary.

It's not about the oil 'breaking down' at 260. We know a good synthetic will technically live through higher temps than that and still be usable oil. The primary issue is that viscosity drops as heat is added, and there's nothing Nissan's engineering or an oil company's engineering can do about that. If there was, they wouldn't still sell different weights of oil. They'd sell all 0w20 that was magically engineering to never lose viscosity to heat. There's a chart for the viscosity drop of various oil weights at various temperatures that's been posted in this thread multiple times I think.

The issue is that the 5w-30 you put in your car is getting too thin at 260+, which will cause wear issues in the long run. You can 'fix' this to a degree by running a much higher viscosity quality synthetic (such as 15w50), but you're trading cold-start protection when you do.

Well I just got back from ZDAYZ the other day. I made sure to closely watch my oil temp gauge whenever I could. I've had the car for about 3 months now so I've got a good idea of how it behaves now.

Typical city/highway driving here in NJ:
amb temp: 70's usually (lately)
daytime: 210*F to 220*F
night time: usually 10*F cooler

"Somewhat aggressive" driving at ZDAYZ (excluding the dragon):
Note: mostly 3rd gear, using midrange RPM's usually from 40mph to 70mph, sometimes to redline
amb temp: 80's and higher
daytime: 240*F to 250*F
nightime: didn't have the balls or sobriety to do night time driving

I knew that limp mode would start cutting in around 260*F. There was a few cases when I got above 250*F, usually would end up shifting up a gear to let her cool off, and/or getting stuck behind a slower car. I actually got a picture of the gauge at 260*F but that was during a steep incline in 2nd gear, using the upper RPM's to keep up with my friend ahead of me. We tried to datalog some oil temp #'s on my friend's 07 350z for comparison during that same run but cipher didn't save for some reason.

I don't think I really drove the car that hard, I consider myself a noob when it comes to this kind of driving. There aren't many nearby places in NJ like the roads at ZDAYZ so I'm not terribly upset with the high oil temperatures. In most cases, my oil temp would only get close to 260*F during highway shenanigan's with other cars.

With that said, I'm waiting for Nissan to release an oil cooler that isn't too pricey and keeps the factory warranty. Nismo S-tune, please?

Would a 0W-50 be better? Like Eneos? ENEOS - Products

The whole technosquare article talks about soft, low melting point engine metals being a limiting factor for excessive engine oil temperatures. I agree that oil viscocity is an issue as well.

From what I've read, the wide operating range synthetic oils (e.g. 0W-50) use components of standard mineral oil to keep them thin at low temperatures. Thus, they don't have the longevity of a synthetic with a smaller 'window' like 10w-30 which doesn't have as much or any mineral oil component.

Yep, that's true. The wider the range, the more prone an oil is to thermal breakdown. I'm just going to stick with 5W-30, install an oil cooler (at my next oil change) and be done with it.

Stretched oils typically don't last as long as they are made up of high viscosity and low viscosity oils, but this one might be a good compromise if it truly is 100% synthetic like it says.

I like this warning on the web site.
"Do not drink this oil. (Swallowing this oil can cause diarrhea and nausea.)"