Everyone with oil temp issues

wstar · 04-15-2009, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse

Very true. they can use just about any excuse and can take fluid samples. If they feel like being a-holes. but with a 30k car why risk it.

And no, sorry, I didnt read about how great a product is from the peolpe who made it. sorry. but I have 'heard' good things about it. I just dont see the point.....if the wetter cools the cooling system, the thermostat would just close a little and warm it up agian.... thats just my thought tho, and why are we fixing something thats not broken? the oil temp is not hot because we dont have 'water wetter' in the system. like I said, just my opinion. I stand corrected though, I did not know oil on the z is cooled by the coolant....... waiting a year before I buy mine.......let YOU guys find the limits of the car! hehehehe!

Re: the thermostat, our stock thermostat begins to open at 170F, reaching full flow at 195F, and doesn't close completely until it gets back down to 160F. I monitored my coolant temp via OBD-II when I was doing my Intake Air Temp testing on the Stillen Gen 3 stuff (since the dummy gauge is no help), and once the car got up to a stable temperature, the coolant never got back under 194 (and was usually in the low 200's). I don't think water wetter's going to change much with our themostats.

This PDF from Redline Water Wetter Tech Info gives their full technical spiel on why this stuff works. It makes a lot of sense, and a lot of people swear by it.

wstar · 04-17-2009, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse

This has to be complete 'hog washery'. I dont think im sold on this fancy pdf of a product BY the makers of the product. Its just fancy jibber jabber to look cool and technical. youd have to be a democrat to fall for something called "water wetter'! HA! but in all seriousness.... I could be wrong. but im no dummy when it comes to cars by a long shot. you wouldnt believe what you have to do to become a smog tech in california

Well, you're welcome to not waste your money on it then. Assuming they aren't flat out lying through their teeth in the referenced PDF about their extended dyno test, I think their product has merit. I don't expect Redline to be lying about product testing, they're a pretty respectable company. Also, while I'm not well versed enough in thermodynamics or chemistry to really validate the rest of the PDF, nothing in it screams "snake oil" to me. If you'd like to debunk it with your own tests, feel free. Here's an independent test done by the guys at Import Tuner, too: Cooling Additives - Redline Water Wetter - Import Tuner Magazine

Edit: I just noticed that the linked test compares 50/50 water/glycol to 100% water with the water wetter added. That's probably not a very valid test, as water alone is known to cool better than water+glycol.

wstar · 04-17-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse

Thats what I mean. it plays on the misconception people have about coolant and water.

Right, but the whitepaper addresses that. In the test in the paper (not done by Redline, but by "Malcolm Garrett Racing Engines"), they ran a Chevy 350 w/ a 160 thermostat at 7200rpm for three hours straight in each of four coolant configurations and recorded the temperature the coolant stabilized at.

50/50 glycol/water: 228F
50/50 + water wetter: 220F
straight water: 220F
straight water + water wetter: 202F

There's no doubt that with or without water wetter, you get better cooling from straight water. I'm not willing to run straight water in my street car (although I may later move to 70/30 water/glycol), but it seems to have an effect even with a 50/50 mix.

ChrisSlicks · 04-17-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

There's no doubt that with or without water wetter, you get better cooling from straight water. I'm not willing to run straight water in my street car (although I may later move to 70/30 water/glycol), but it seems to have an effect even with a 50/50 mix.

This is interesting but it would have been better if they took water and oil temperature measurements. The real issue is how well the engine gets cooled, not what the water temperature is. Usually they go hand in hand but it's not a true measure of performance.

ChrisSlicks · 04-15-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse

Very true. they can use just about any excuse and can take fluid samples. If they feel like being a-holes. but with a 30k car why risk it.

And no, sorry, I didnt read about how great a product is from the peolpe who made it. sorry. but I have 'heard' good things about it. I just dont see the point.....if the wetter cools the cooling system, the thermostat would just close a little and warm it up agian.... thats just my thought tho, and why are we fixing something thats not broken? the oil temp is not hot because we dont have 'water wetter' in the system. like I said, just my opinion. I stand corrected though, I did not know oil on the z is cooled by the coolant....... waiting a year before I buy mine.......let YOU guys find the limits of the car! hehehehe!

Jessie, the water wetter has nothing to do with helping to keep the water cooler, its purpose is to improve the heat transfer from the metal. This will actually make the water hotter quicker, but the water is easily cooled by the large radiator. Also on this engines the oil is indirectly cooled by the passing water (the oil and water passages are deliberately close to each other) so the better the water can transfer the heat the cooler the oil will stay.

jimClark53 · 04-16-2009, 03:09 AM

Does the water get hot when the oil gets hot ?
If no, then water wetter is waste of time.

kster · 04-15-2009, 07:41 PM

I e-mailed Nissan this week about the oil overheating issue and they replied with the same response that others have received:

"Thank you for contacting Nissan North America, Inc. and your interest in our 2009 370z. Thank you very much for your concern, this matter is currently under review at this time."

Musashi · 04-17-2009, 08:47 PM

I got my Stillen oil cooler in and have my mechanic installing next week. I will take some pictures for every one. Then I have a 2 track days later in the week, so I will probably drive it one of the two days, depends which of my friends are coming! lol

MannyLJr · 04-18-2009, 04:44 PM

From Edmunds.com Long-Term Road Test of the 370Z comes this post:

2009 Nissan 370Z Touring: Oil Cooler Install and First Service | Long-Term Road Tests Blog on Edmunds' Inside Line

They said they had a Nissan recommended oil cooler installed at a dealer. This contradicts earlier posts of oil coolers voiding warranties or not available. Can I just demand my dealer install this when I buy my new Z?

wstar · 04-18-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MannyLJr

From Edmunds.com Long-Term Road Test of the 370Z comes this post:

2009 Nissan 370Z Touring: Oil Cooler Install and First Service | Long-Term Road Tests Blog on Edmunds' Inside Line

They said they had a Nissan recommended oil cooler installed at a dealer. This contradicts earlier posts of oil coolers voiding warranties or not available. Can I just demand my dealer install this when I buy my new Z?

Thanks for the link, that's very interesting. So they claim this kit was developed by Nissan, but is "aftermarket", and can't be bought from Nissan. Something fishy there, I think they didn't get good info on the source. I wonder who is making this kit, and why Nissan isn't at least releasing details about it (if not selling it). In any case it's a Setrab core, and it looks like it might be taller than the unit Stillen is using.

ENT-Z · 04-18-2009, 06:21 PM

I'm certain most of you have seen this, but in the write-up by NissanSport magazine they claimed 3 options were in the works but still not completed at the time of publication: oil cooler, trans cooler, diff cooler. For whatever that's worth.

chubbs · 04-20-2009, 05:53 PM

I mentioned in another thread that the Z-Car Garage have hinted about oil temperature problems in their blog - Z-Car Blog

They updated their blog on April 15th with a youtube video of their trackday at Thunderhill Raceway (below). It all seems to be going well at first, but at around about 5min 50secs - well, see for yourself...

Zeto · 04-18-2009, 06:56 PM

Awesome thread with a bunch of info!

travisjb · 04-18-2009, 07:58 PM

I think you're referring to US Law, not California Law... everything you said is covered under the magnison-moss warranty act (of U.S. federal code)
Consumer Law: Warranty FAQ

ie anyone in US can make the same claim regardless of state... probably can be used as court argument in other common law countries too

but the reality is that nissan knows not everyone is going to take them to court, and their certainly willing to deny a claim if they think an aftermarket part somehow contributed to the failure of related parts... then it becomes a technical argument

remember that dealers are ALWAYS incented to do warranty work that is not obviously out of warranty... they will have approval levels up to ~$5K, and anything under that they can do at their discretion... they are reimbursed from the factory for the work they do, so the dealer is the least likely to turn you away... if they do, find another nissan dealer - dime a dozen

lww · 04-19-2009, 07:44 PM

Brisk driving on Skyline Blvd. in Santa Clara this afternoon completely within the posted speed limit results in oil temps up to 290/300 and kicks in ECU limp mode...

2009 370Z all stock. Water temps appeared fine the whole time.

Car is going back to the dealer with a "chronic" oil over-heating problem.

04-20-2009, 05:53 PM	#12 (permalink)
chubbs A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Zeeland Posts: 1,046 Drives: 2016 370z Auto-Grey Rep Power: 7588	I mentioned in another thread that the Z-Car Garage have hinted about oil temperature problems in their blog - Z-Car Blog They updated their blog on April 15th with a youtube video of their trackday at Thunderhill Raceway (below). It all seems to be going well at first, but at around about 5min 50secs - well, see for yourself... __________________ . '03 Grey >>> '06 Black >>>'10 Silver >>> '16 Grey ^

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04-16-2009, 03:09 AM	#6 (permalink)
jimClark53 Base Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: uk Posts: 7 Drives: Ford Anglia TC Rep Power: 18	Does the water get hot when the oil gets hot ? If no, then water wetter is waste of time.

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04-17-2009, 08:47 PM	#8 (permalink)
Musashi Enthusiast Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 357 Drives: 09 370Z 6speed Rep Power: 608	I got my Stillen oil cooler in and have my mechanic installing next week. I will take some pictures for every one. Then I have a 2 track days later in the week, so I will probably drive it one of the two days, depends which of my friends are coming! lol

04-18-2009, 04:44 PM	#9 (permalink)
MannyLJr Base Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 12 Drives: 2004 Mazda RX-8 GT Rep Power: 18	From Edmunds.com Long-Term Road Test of the 370Z comes this post: 2009 Nissan 370Z Touring: Oil Cooler Install and First Service \| Long-Term Road Tests Blog on Edmunds' Inside Line They said they had a Nissan recommended oil cooler installed at a dealer. This contradicts earlier posts of oil coolers voiding warranties or not available. Can I just demand my dealer install this when I buy my new Z?

04-18-2009, 06:21 PM	#11 (permalink)
ENT-Z Enthusiast Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 460 Drives: 09 MB 6MT 370Z Rep Power: 18	I'm certain most of you have seen this, but in the write-up by NissanSport magazine they claimed 3 options were in the works but still not completed at the time of publication: oil cooler, trans cooler, diff cooler. For whatever that's worth.

04-18-2009, 06:56 PM	#13 (permalink)
Zeto Track Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: North NJ Age: 42 Posts: 766 Drives: 09 Pearl White 370Z Rep Power: 269	Awesome thread with a bunch of info!

04-18-2009, 07:58 PM	#14 (permalink)
travisjb A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: GSO Posts: 2,803 Drives: VIR Rep Power: 190	I think you're referring to US Law, not California Law... everything you said is covered under the magnison-moss warranty act (of U.S. federal code) Consumer Law: Warranty FAQ ie anyone in US can make the same claim regardless of state... probably can be used as court argument in other common law countries too but the reality is that nissan knows not everyone is going to take them to court, and their certainly willing to deny a claim if they think an aftermarket part somehow contributed to the failure of related parts... then it becomes a technical argument remember that dealers are ALWAYS incented to do warranty work that is not obviously out of warranty... they will have approval levels up to ~$5K, and anything under that they can do at their discretion... they are reimbursed from the factory for the work they do, so the dealer is the least likely to turn you away... if they do, find another nissan dealer - dime a dozen

04-19-2009, 07:44 PM	#15 (permalink)
lww Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: SF Bay Posts: 69 Drives: '09 Red Sport 6MT+ Rep Power: 18	Brisk driving on Skyline Blvd. in Santa Clara this afternoon completely within the posted speed limit results in oil temps up to 290/300 and kicks in ECU limp mode... 2009 370Z all stock. Water temps appeared fine the whole time. Car is going back to the dealer with a "chronic" oil over-heating problem.