Failed oil consumption test

Mt Tam I am · 08-21-2010, 12:07 PM

Well I failed my oil consumption test. At 872 miles I was down 1.9 quarts and Nissan called the test before I went the full 1500 miles.
The solution: a new short block using my old heads. Total milage is 2451. Am I made whole this way or am I being screwed?
Thank you for any advice.

Pushing_Tin · 08-21-2010, 12:10 PM

If that were my car I'd push for a brand new crate engine. My car has almost 14k miles on it and it doesn't burn any oil between changes.

Trips · 08-21-2010, 12:20 PM

Since the oil consumption has been traced to a probably poor piston ring seal? The heads should be tested for adverse wear or defect if none is found then they should be fine. The block is the real issue which I guess they have determined to be a problem.

6MT · 08-21-2010, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mt Tam I am

At 872 miles I was down 1.9 quarts

Hmm.... doesn't sound too excessive. I was down 1.5 quarts after 1000 miles. Normal to me. Just kept an eye on it and topped up as needed. These rings are really hard and take quite some time to seat. Therefore.... oil usage. I now have almost 8000 miles and it has slowed in consumption, but not stopped.

My personal belief is that it will continue to use oil up to and beyond 10000 miles.

(Maybe a dealer looking to make some money on warranty work that may not be needed?)

Mt Tam I am · 08-21-2010, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6MT

Hmm.... doesn't sound too excessive. I was down 1.5 quarts after 1000 miles. Normal to me. Just kept an eye on it and topped up as needed. These rings are really hard and take quite some time to seat. Therefore.... oil usage. I now have almost 8000 miles and it has slowed in consumption, but not stopped.

My personal belief is that it will continue to use oil up to and beyond 10000 miles.

(Maybe a dealer looking to make some money on warranty work that may not be needed?)

Apparently one quart per 1500 miles is too much. You may want to have yours checked too.

6MT · 08-21-2010, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mt Tam I am

Apparently one quart per 1500 miles is too much. You may want to have yours checked too.

Nothing wrong with my engine. And sorry, mine was down 1.5 quarts after 2500 miles.

Z1804 · 08-21-2010, 01:36 PM

I'm down almost a qt after 700 miles. Going to the dealer Monday.

BalanBro · 08-21-2010, 02:16 PM

I would have thought they would swap the entire longblock rather than pay the dealership for tranferring the heads over to the new block. Souldn't be a big deal or anything. As long as the engine was never starved of oil, your heads should be fine and past their break in.

You should be able to go hard on the motor from day one to seat the rings and prevent this from happening again.

WarmAndSCSI · 08-21-2010, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BalanBro

I would have thought they would swap the entire longblock rather than pay the dealership for tranferring the heads over to the new block. Souldn't be a big deal or anything. As long as the engine was never starved of oil, your heads should be fine and past their break in.

You should be able to go hard on the motor from day one to seat the rings and prevent this from happening again.

Yes, thank you, some common sense finally!

It's not so much the rings, it's gaining a plateau finish on the cylinder wall oil retention "valleys." Every block that rolls off Nissan's assembly line is pre-honed and plateau honed to an extent, but there is still some potential to leave the oil cross hatches too shallow or glazed over due to improper break in.

I'm going to leave it at my experience of 4 years of building several V6 engines for boosted applications... The problem is not with people refusing to break in their engine too hard, it's with people who are too easy or otherwise follow a bad engine break-in procedure. For the first 50 miles once your engine reaches operating temperature, it is critical to A) NOT idle the engine at all if possible, shut it off if you get stuck at a light B) load the cylinder walls so force is exerted from the rings (have some fun, but don't beat on the engine or let your oil and/or coolant get too hot) and C) engine brake every chance you get to accomplish B) even when you are decelerating and D) do NOT cruise at a constant speed at all if possible - take the hilliest route you can if applicable so you can vary the load on your engine. Continue this procedure for the first several hundred miles, but the no idling rule becomes less important after the first 50-100 miles or X number of revolutions.

That's all I have to say; I can promise you that you will not have an oil consumption problem again if you do the above.

Trips · 08-21-2010, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarmAndSCSI

Well after reading the actual first post of this thread and the complete premise, I figured it would be very useful to chime in on what this guy should do once he does have a new engine. Everybody getting replacement engines will be in this boat and have the choice to make...

I am not a professional mechanic (i.e. I don't do this for a living), and I do not market any kind of product, so I have nothing to gain from giving advice on this issue except knowing that a few more people will have properly broken-in engines if they at least partially listen. I do an extreme version of points A-D that I described, but through at least a dozen times of firing up a new race engine and TWICE now with 2 brand new high-performance import engines, this has worked for me. I challenge you to find somebody who can give that kind of advice who doesn't also build engines for a performance shop for a living...

I like your explanation, and if you'd like to discuss this? Feel free to send me a Pm I've built plenty of motors, Back on Topic.

WarmAndSCSI · 08-21-2010, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple's

I like your explanation, and if you'd like to discuss this? Feel free to send me a Pm I've built plenty of motors, Back on Topic.

I feel ya. I'll keep it more on-topic but I just find it amusing how many reports of this come from the Z community. People are probably just too nice to their new babies. Nothing wrong with that, but I wish I could redefine what "being nice" is for some people. Tough love is how I would describe it.

But on the real, I'd be demanding a whole new engine. There ARE some potential side effects of poor ring sealing on the engine as a whole.

Actually, I'm surprised somebody hasn't had a bearing failure during all of this. Fuel dilution in oil is pretty much the #1 killer of bearings. To that point, you could have some excessive wear in your valvetrain due to lack of oil protection and potential dropped oil pressure due to lower end wear.

Point these things out to your dealer tech or service manager. It's perfectly logical especially if the consumption has been on-going.

Daishi · 08-21-2010, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarmAndSCSI

I feel ya. I'll keep it more on-topic but I just find it amusing how many reports of this come from the Z community. People are probably just too nice to their new babies. Nothing wrong with that, but I wish I could redefine what "being nice" is for some people. Tough love is how I would describe it.

But on the real, I'd be demanding a whole new engine. There ARE some potential side effects of poor ring sealing on the engine as a whole.

Actually, I'm surprised somebody hasn't had a bearing failure during all of this. Fuel dilution in oil is pretty much the #1 killer of bearings. To that point, you could have some excessive wear in your valvetrain due to lack of oil protection and potential dropped oil pressure due to lower end wear.

Point these things out to your dealer tech or service manager. It's perfectly logical especially if the consumption has been on-going.

You can point these out to the service manager and such but they will most likely not change out the entire engine unless absolutely necessary. Nissan is going to approve the minimum amount of work required to fix the car. Until that motor is actualy pulled apart and checked to see if more damage has occured they will most likely stick to the original repair.

WarmAndSCSI · 08-21-2010, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daishi

You can point these out to the service manager and such but they will most likely not change out the entire engine unless absolutely necessary. Nissan is going to approve the minimum amount of work required to fix the car. Until that motor is actualy pulled apart and checked to see if more damage has occured they will most likely stick to the original repair.

Well, to properly check every single camshaft/eccentric shaft journal, cap, etc for roundness and wear would take some serious labor. The OP should at least force them to do a thorough inspection of every component in the engine. And that plus proper reassembly (and associated risk) is probably just as expensive due to labor costs as getting a new long block or whole crate engine put in.

Nissan has to reimburse the dealer for labor and parts costs, so they'll probably go with the option least likely to produce a repeat incident. Which that is, who knows.

If it were me, I'd replace the shortblock and be OK with it, but I don't even trust the dealer to change my oil, yet alone the lower end of my motor. That's my concern more so than whether the replacement lower end fixes the issue.

Daishi · 08-21-2010, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarmAndSCSI

Well, to properly check every single camshaft/eccentric shaft journal, cap, etc for roundness and wear would take some serious labor. The OP should at least force them to do a thorough inspection of every component in the engine. And that plus proper reassembly (and associated risk) is probably just as expensive due to labor costs as getting a new long block or whole crate engine put in.

Nissan has to reimburse the dealer for labor and parts costs, so they'll probably go with the option least likely to produce a repeat incident. Which that is, who knows.

If it were me, I'd replace the shortblock and be OK with it, but I don't even trust the dealer to change my oil, yet alone the lower end of my motor. That's my concern more so than whether the replacement lower end fixes the issue.

Nissan will only pay the dealer however long nissan says it takes to repair a part, thats how warranty works. Generaly repairs like that take longer than what nissan pays and isnt beneficial to the dealer at all. So they will take whichever route is easier. Id want a new engine too but I dont think its going to happen.

PS: I broke my engine in hard and havent had any oil consumption problems. only time my car ever consumed some oil was before the first oil change and it was only like half a quart.

WarmAndSCSI · 08-21-2010, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daishi

Nissan will only pay the dealer however long nissan says it takes to repair a part, thats how warranty works. Generaly repairs like that take longer than what nissan pays and isnt beneficial to the dealer at all. So they will take whichever route is easier. Id want a new engine too but I dont think its going to happen.

PS: I broke my engine in hard and havent had any oil consumption problems. only time my car ever consumed some oil was before the first oil change and it was only like half a quart.

A new crate engine on a 2009-2010 must be in the order of $10k, so I'd be waving the option of going to court in Nissan's face if it were me. They're likely to cooperate on a repair that serious.

The minimum proper repair here is to have the cylinder heads checked out or at least have the inevitable varnish from an oil-consuming engine cleaned out of them to avoid any future oiling issues. I'd be happy if Nissan paid the dealership to do either.

08-21-2010, 12:07 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mt Tam I am A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: California Posts: 10,709 Drives: 370Z T/S/N 6MT & XKE Rep Power: 3844	Failed oil consumption test Well I failed my oil consumption test. At 872 miles I was down 1.9 quarts and Nissan called the test before I went the full 1500 miles. The solution: a new short block using my old heads. Total milage is 2451. Am I made whole this way or am I being screwed? Thank you for any advice. __________________ "Does the carpet match the drapes? NO!!! I don't date bald women." Nissan Motorsports 34R Oil Cooler. Stillen CBE. Hotchkis Sport Sway Bars. KW Variant 3 Coilover System. Stillen Gen3 CAI. Michelin Pilot Super Sport. Stillen Brake Ducts. Carbotech™ XP10/XP8 Pads. Z1 Front Rotors. Z1 Stainless Brake Lines. Two degrees of camber

08-21-2010, 12:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
Trips Administrator Join Date: May 2009 Location: Disneyland, Ca Posts: 8,732 Drives: 🔰 Rep Power: 10	Since the oil consumption has been traced to a probably poor piston ring seal? The heads should be tested for adverse wear or defect if none is found then they should be fine. The block is the real issue which I guess they have determined to be a problem. __________________

08-21-2010, 01:36 PM	#7 (permalink)
Z1804 Premium Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: GA Posts: 784 Drives: 2009 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 17	I'm down almost a qt after 700 miles. Going to the dealer Monday. __________________ Z1804 ------ Z1804 ------ Z1804 ------ ------ Z1804 ------ Z1804 ------ Z1804 Fairlady Z 2011 Calendar Now on Sale!!!

08-21-2010, 02:16 PM	#8 (permalink)
BalanBro Enthusiast Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 318 Drives: 40th Anniv. 370Z Rep Power: 1112	I would have thought they would swap the entire longblock rather than pay the dealership for tranferring the heads over to the new block. Souldn't be a big deal or anything. As long as the engine was never starved of oil, your heads should be fine and past their break in. You should be able to go hard on the motor from day one to seat the rings and prevent this from happening again. __________________ 2012 Mercedes C63 AMG P31 Sedan, ROW, aFe, Eurocharged Dyno Tune. 438WHP/415WTQ 2010 SOLD: 40th Anniversary 370z

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08-21-2010, 12:10 PM	#2 (permalink)
Pushing_Tin A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 2,875 Drives: E63 AMG Rep Power: 228	If that were my car I'd push for a brand new crate engine. My car has almost 14k miles on it and it doesn't burn any oil between changes.