[OFFICIAL] Manual v. Automatic Thread

[wstar]

Originally Posted by awkwardturtle

I couldn't live with an automatic, personally. That's not a sports car to me. Hell, I actually wish they wouldn't make sports car with automatic options because that's why you see so many 50 year old women driving mustangs.

And no, I don't have any rhyme or reason as to why I think that, it's just something I've always thought. Even if the automatic is faster, more convenient, etc, I could never allow myself an automatic in a sporty car like the Z.

The Z's automatic is in such a different category from a mustang's there's no point mentioning the two in any comparative analysis. Go test drive one at a dealership and you'll see what we're talking about.

Do you fault F1 drivers for not using a clutch? Do you think the GT-R isn't a sportscar because it doesn't have a clutch? Or let's step back from the clutch... How about "Real men don't rely on power steering and power brakes?". What about ABS and Traction Control, should a Sports Car come with those? Synchro-Rev-Match? I'm sure you turn that off 100% of the time, just like you turn off VDC, right? Why not gut the air conditioning from the car too? It just wastes power.

I can appreciate a purist in a hobby, but if you're trying to be pure to some ideal of "traditional" car racing with all-manual inputs, you have to step back a whole lot further in technology than a 6MT 370Z. Otherwise you're just pussyfooting around with "I'm gonna draw the line at exactly where my car is, but not one inch further".

[cossie1600]

They do have a hand clutch for the 17K rpm start......

AC compressor shuts off under WOT, no need to worry about power loss on full throttle run

Originally Posted by wstar

The Z's automatic is in such a different category from a mustang's there's no point mentioning the two in any comparative analysis. Go test drive one at a dealership and you'll see what we're talking about.

Do you fault F1 drivers for not using a clutch? Do you think the GT-R isn't a sportscar because it doesn't have a clutch? Or let's step back from the clutch... How about "Real men don't rely on power steering and power brakes?". What about ABS and Traction Control, should a Sports Car come with those? Synchro-Rev-Match? I'm sure you turn that off 100% of the time, just like you turn off VDC, right? Why not gut the air conditioning from the car too? It just wastes power.

I can appreciate a purist in a hobby, but if you're trying to be pure to some ideal of "traditional" car racing with all-manual inputs, you have to step back a whole lot further in technology than a 6MT 370Z. Otherwise you're just pussyfooting around with "I'm gonna draw the line at exactly where my car is, but not one inch further".

[wstar]

Originally Posted by cossie1600

They do have a hand clutch for the 17K rpm start......

:P

AC compressor shuts off under WOT, no need to worry about power loss on full throttle run

It's still a bunch of dead weight (compressor, condensor, hoses, refrigerant, fans, ductwork), and even with the compressor kicked off the pulley's dragging on your engine a bit. But my point was more about getting creature comforts in a sportscar; a "pure" sportscar would make no trades in the name of convenience or comfort. None of the cars we drive today are pure sport machines.

[cossie1600]

Originally Posted by wstar

It's still a bunch of dead weight (compressor, condensor, hoses, refrigerant, fans, ductwork), and even with the compressor kicked off the pulley's dragging on your engine a bit. But my point was more about getting creature comforts in a sportscar; a "pure" sportscar would make no trades in the name of convenience or comfort. None of the cars we drive today are pure sport machines.

ALMS cars have AC and other series have AC suits. Times have changed and things have evolved, there is no such thing as a pure sports car. The term is just used by guys who want to make excuses. The "pure" sports car from the 60s or 70s or even 80s would get lapped by my Prius. It doesn't make them any less of a sports car, it's just that technology have caught on.

[awkwardturtle]

Originally Posted by wstar

The Z's automatic is in such a different category from a mustang's there's no point mentioning the two in any comparative analysis. Go test drive one at a dealership and you'll see what we're talking about.

Do you fault F1 drivers for not using a clutch? Do you think the GT-R isn't a sportscar because it doesn't have a clutch? Or let's step back from the clutch... How about "Real men don't rely on power steering and power brakes?". What about ABS and Traction Control, should a Sports Car come with those? Synchro-Rev-Match? I'm sure you turn that off 100% of the time, just like you turn off VDC, right? Why not gut the air conditioning from the car too? It just wastes power.

I can appreciate a purist in a hobby, but if you're trying to be pure to some ideal of "traditional" car racing with all-manual inputs, you have to step back a whole lot further in technology than a 6MT 370Z. Otherwise you're just pussyfooting around with "I'm gonna draw the line at exactly where my car is, but not one inch further".

I have no doubt that the Z's automatic is great. And I wasn't comparing the quality of the trans. to the mustang. The point of my comparison was that offering an automatic version often drowns out a true sports car into being another vanilla car driven by older women.

That's one thing I always liked about my SI. Yeah, it's slow, has no torque, quality of it sucks, but you know what? I've seen like two older women driving them in my entire life, and they were ripping through the gears! It just annoys me when I see a nice sports car like the Z being driven by an old woman who bought it because it looks pretty.

Like I said, my opinion has no rhyme or reason.. just the way I feel

[Nismo89]

Originally Posted by awkwardturtle

I have no doubt that the Z's automatic is great. And I wasn't comparing the quality of the trans. to the mustang. The point of my comparison was that offering an automatic version often drowns out a true sports car into being another vanilla car driven by older women.

That's one thing I always liked about my SI. Yeah, it's slow, has no torque, quality of it sucks, but you know what? I've seen like two older women driving them in my entire life, and they were ripping through the gears! It just annoys me when I see a nice sports car like the Z being driven by an old woman who bought it because it looks pretty.

Like I said, my opinion has no rhyme or reason.. just the way I feel

i guess the GTR isnt a True sports car then? because it has paddle shifters. the hag across the street can start the engine and put it in gear to go down the street, so i dont want it?. theres a difference between knowing how to put it in gear and actually knowing how to drive the car.

i read somewhere that the Paddle shifters, is the way cars of the future will eventually end up being, i read that that they are trying to phase the traditional manuel out, in for the new Paddle shifters. the idea of having a sports car doesnt hinder because " I saw a granny grunt driving it!" its about pride, its about ownership, its about how YOU feel personally.

one of the "older" people (as you call it lol) and drives with the paddle shifters, is none other than Steve Millen, and i have to say he does know how to drive a sports car. mind you his first EVER car was something like a model T (just to give you a hint as to AGE) that was crashed in a Ditch, pulled it out, did teh work it needed on it and bam.

look. to me a sports car is a sports car. people have what they like or prefer.

[awkwardturtle]

Originally Posted by Nismo89

i guess the GTR isnt a True sports car then? because it has paddle shifters. the hag across the street can start the engine and put it in gear to go down the street, so i dont want it?. theres a difference between knowing how to put it in gear and actually knowing how to drive the car.

i read somewhere that the Paddle shifters, is the way cars of the future will eventually end up being, i read that that they are trying to phase the traditional manuel out, in for the new Paddle shifters. the idea of having a sports car doesnt hinder because " I saw a granny grunt driving it!" its about pride, its about ownership, its about how YOU feel personally.

one of the "older" people (as you call it lol) and drives with the paddle shifters, is none other than Steve Millen, and i have to say he does know how to drive a sports car. mind you his first EVER car was something like a model T (just to give you a hint as to AGE) that was crashed in a Ditch, pulled it out, did teh work it needed on it and bam.

look. to me a sports car is a sports car. people have what they like or prefer.

Again, it's just my opinion. No need to get worked up about it

And to answer your question, the GT-R isn't much of a sports car to me. It's fast, but I would never purchase one unless I was some monster billionaire who could afford a stable of cars. To me, it's a fast car, but it's not a 'sports car', or what a sports car is to me.

I do find it a little funny, however, that this entire thread is more or less automatic Z owners justifying why they bought an auto If you enjoy it, whatevs, no need to explain to other people why you got it.

[Felix 808]

It all comes down to preference. If Paddle shifted Auto's are so bad & manuals rule the race track, why has Ferrari been using them in F-1 as well as their production cars for over 2 decades & as mentioned the faster drag guys are running autos as well.
I was a manual guy for decades, but since getting my Z as a Paddle Shifted Auto (so wife can drive), I couldn't be happier. If you are a manual purist like I was, by all means get a manual, but I still do not think you would be disappointed with a PSA. I thought it would be a compromise, but have really learned to enjoy it.

YMMV

[Super Moderator II]

Originally Posted by awkwardturtle

No need to get worked up about it

The only reason this thread is still open is that no one is too worked up. As soon as that changes I'm going to have to close it.