Gas Pedal Delay

kenchan · 12-07-2012, 01:18 PM

ive not encountered this..?

wstar · 12-07-2012, 09:36 PM

"when turning" - sure that wasn't VDC? But either way... If you think you're gonna need power, don't be down at 1,200 RPM to start.

DIGItonium · 12-07-2012, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

"when turning" - sure that wasn't VDC? But either way... If you think you're gonna need power, don't be down at 1,200 RPM to start.

Haha... nah, just getting the car to scoot as usual in 1st. It just doesn't budge down there. But you're right, if I get the revs up a bit higher in 1st the car gets moving. It's pretty much linear from there. I did that one time (even while the A/C was running) and spun the tires throughout the turn with barely half throttle.

oro · 12-08-2012, 12:22 AM

As an update since I switched to the Southbend SS with 14lb flywheel, the issue is still there but far less noticeable. I have a feeling it has to do with torque management + our clunky trans design with the lightened flywheel the car jumps off the line cuts throttle very quickly then ramps up like hell if you push it quickly around 1- 1.5k rpm, it didn't fix the problem but it shortened the "return time" in a big way when the car ramps its power back up.

kenny's 370z · 12-13-2012, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oro

As an update since I switched to the Southbend SS with 14lb flywheel, the issue is still there but far less noticeable. I have a feeling it has to do with torque management + our clunky trans design with the lightened flywheel the car jumps off the line cuts throttle very quickly then ramps up like hell if you push it quickly around 1- 1.5k rpm, it didn't fix the problem but it shortened the "return time" in a big way when the car ramps its power back up.

you shouldnt have to have a return time.it should have normal predictable power like every other car.but,it doesnt

ZForce · 12-12-2012, 10:08 PM

Drive by wire

DIGItonium · 12-13-2012, 12:51 AM

It's not DBW. If it is, then we'd have this delay issue throughout the rev range. It's just held back in the lower RPMs, which is enough to bog at times (hot weather).

wstar · 12-13-2012, 11:42 AM

I'm glad you guys are so confident in your diagnosis. This thread has like 300 random people complaining of roughly similar, but vague, symptoms. I think I'm right that for most drivers it's either a non-issue, a driver issue, a maintenance issue (dirty sensors, poor tuning, mods, whatever), or VDC.

Some of you may have some kind of inexplicable bog in acceleration under certain conditions, and that warrants investigation. Solve the problem, eliminate variables, clean your sensors, check your AF, ask your Nissan dealer to investigate, etc. The car does generally lack torque in the low revs. It's a V6. It's not enough to cause an accident or be a huge impediment to normal driving. The stock throttle also doesn't open fully at low revs no matter how much you push on the gas, in an effort to prevent people wrecking the car, but it still opens way past the halfway mark, and it's more than enough to pull through a corner or get into traffic.

Come on, people manage to not have lack-of-acceleration-induced accidents in little economy 4-cyl Hyundais. Diagnose your issues better and you'll find a better answer than "This car sucks and it damn near kills me because I push the go pedal and it don't go".

OMGiGOTaZ · 12-13-2012, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

I'm glad you guys are so confident in your diagnosis. This thread has like 300 random people complaining of roughly similar, but vague, symptoms. I think I'm right that for most drivers it's either a non-issue, a driver issue, a maintenance issue (dirty sensors, poor tuning, mods, whatever), or VDC.

Some of you may have some kind of inexplicable bog in acceleration under certain conditions, and that warrants investigation. Solve the problem, eliminate variables, clean your sensors, check your AF, ask your Nissan dealer to investigate, etc. The car does generally lack torque in the low revs. It's a V6. It's not enough to cause an accident or be a huge impediment to normal driving. The stock throttle also doesn't open fully at low revs no matter how much you push on the gas, in an effort to prevent people wrecking the car, but it still opens way past the halfway mark, and it's more than enough to pull through a corner or get into traffic.

Come on, people manage to not have lack-of-acceleration-induced accidents in little economy 4-cyl Hyundais. Diagnose your issues better and you'll find a better answer than "This car sucks and it damn near kills me because I push the go pedal and it don't go".

Coming from a 4 Cylinder Hyundai and 4cyl Audi Turbo before that, they both had bogging when mashing from a U turn which is when the Z has caughten me off guard and I expected different. Although I do see the traction light at times when I know I'm in full control, so I do also feel there is something Nissan could improve on there!

bushman66 · 12-14-2012, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

I'm glad you guys are so confident in your diagnosis. This thread has like 300 random people complaining of roughly similar, but vague, symptoms. I think I'm right that for most drivers it's either a non-issue, a driver issue, a maintenance issue (dirty sensors, poor tuning, mods, whatever), or VDC.

Some of you may have some kind of inexplicable bog in acceleration under certain conditions, and that warrants investigation. Solve the problem, eliminate variables, clean your sensors, check your AF, ask your Nissan dealer to investigate, etc. The car does generally lack torque in the low revs. It's a V6. It's not enough to cause an accident or be a huge impediment to normal driving. The stock throttle also doesn't open fully at low revs no matter how much you push on the gas, in an effort to prevent people wrecking the car, but it still opens way past the halfway mark, and it's more than enough to pull through a corner or get into traffic.

Come on, people manage to not have lack-of-acceleration-induced accidents in little economy 4-cyl Hyundais. Diagnose your issues better and you'll find a better answer than "This car sucks and it damn near kills me because I push the go pedal and it don't go".

"The car does generally lack torque in the low revs. It's a V6." Whatever.
My 2012 FJ Cruiser is a V6 too and it does not bog when the weather heats up. Its not a drivers issue, poor maintenance, poor tuning, etc. Its a FLAW. Sorry that we are raining on your "Nissan can't be wrong" parade. I'm done reading YOUR posts on this, and will continue to see if someone else posts something useful to help solve this NISSAN FLAW on this thread.

wstar · 12-14-2012, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bushman66

"The car does generally lack torque in the low revs. It's a V6." Whatever.
My 2012 FJ Cruiser is a V6 too and it does not bog when the weather heats up. Its not a drivers issue, poor maintenance, poor tuning, etc. Its a FLAW. Sorry that we are raining on your "Nissan can't be wrong" parade. I'm done reading YOUR posts on this, and will continue to see if someone else posts something useful to help solve this NISSAN FLAW on this thread.

Yeah, I'm the Nissan Can't Be Wrong guy

I'm also terrified of the fact that you'll never read any of my posts on some message board. How do you expect someone to help you with this NISSAN FLAW? Have you investigated all possible causes? Can you repeat the problem accurately under a given set of conditions? Have you tried modifying those conditions in various unbiased ways to see which of the conditions might be unrelated? Can you accurately describe this repeatable problem in excruciating detail? Does that exactly match up with the symptoms of everyone else you're ganging up with on this issue?

Make an effort to rationally solve the problem instead of jumping on the Nissan Sucks bandwagon without any real cause is all I'm asking. I don't think heat alone is your problem. It's not a big enough factor to describe the catastrophe everyone's describing here. There's some other understandable fault here, one that can be isolated and remedied.

For the most part, this thread is a long list of people who apparently share similar symptoms, at least vaguely similar, and at least as a one-off event. That doesn't make for a shared defect on Nissan's part. Everyone needs to get to the bottom of their problem and see if there's a shared cause. Who knows what you'll find. Perhaps you'll find that 6% of all 370Z owners experience these symptoms, and over 90% of those reports end up having a root cause of a faulty sensor wire that comes loose too easily and screws up the ECU's behavior. Then you could come back and say "Nissan sucks, they can't make good sensor wire connections." Or it could turn out to be more like 2% of all users having this vague symptom, but the causes don't line up. You end up with 10 different causes. One of them's a few fluke sensor wires coming loose, a real defect. One's a dirty MAF sensor. One's a guy didn't realize one of his PCV hoses came loose after installing an aftermarket intake. Another had bad gas, etc. A large chunk of them didn't turn off VDC to test, even if you did.

You can't know until you do the investigation part. What this thread acts like now is more like a mob.

cheshirecat · 12-14-2012, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wstar

You can't know until you do the investigation part. What this thread acts like now is more like a mob.

That's just it- owners shouldn't have to do an "investigation" over why this specific model of car produces specific issues in specific scenarios, especially if they just want to report an issue and see if someone else has experienced it. This issue is specific to the 370- even the 350 didn't experience it (as an owner of both cars with over 150k miles between the two- the 350z forums also don't have a similar thread) It's not a matter of VDC according to the posters here, but there is a common observation of ambient air temp being a possible issue.

Your observation that it may be a dirty MAF sensor, or loose wiring doesn't explain these observations. You suggesting it's a lack of torque "since 4 cylinders exhibit the problem" is nonsense. If you had truly felt this problem, where there's literally close to no power for several seconds before the car "surges" forward, you would understand.

While I appreciate your comments, it's not the place of the consumer to diagnose and fix a design flaw (if that's what this is). All we can do is report our issue and try to root out a common cause, which is what's going on- it's not a "mob", it's a group of owners who are frustrated by their cars exhibiting a hard to diagnose problem that goes beyond your "it's a v6 it doesn't have a lot of torque" diagnosis.

DIGItonium · 12-14-2012, 07:13 AM

I get this once in awhile and we all are already familiar how the car falls flat on its face in hot weather. It was in the low 50s and oil temps were at least 160-170. The drive from work was fine. I was at home briefly and left to go out to dinner. The car decided not to make much power. I accelerated in 1st and 2nd as usual and when it got to 3k or so it felt like someone took my foot off. I even floored it and it felt like I was in the wrong gear. Later I found myself flooring it several times in 1st and 2nd and it felt similar to accelerating in 5th at low speeds. It wasn't making any power. I couldn't get it to boost either at WOT past4k.

Everything seems fine. It idles and cruises well. Afterward the car was fine again.

The car doesn't scream either so it feels like throttle isn't opening up fully. Definitely going to get it checked. My tech thinks something is wrong with the throttles after describing times I had difficulty starting the car. Maybe it needs cleaning. [Shrugs]

[EDIT] Morning drive was fine. I can get boost easily in any gear at half throttle at 3k. The car will get tail happy if i floor it in 2nd or 3rd haha. Weird?

DIGItonium · 12-14-2012, 10:56 AM

Add to the list is the brake switch. I had similar issues, but I wish there's an easier way to check to see if the brake switch is intermittent. The SLIP light won't indicate the car is cutting power due to faulty brake switch anyhow. I may go ahead and get it checked or suggest replacement.

wstar · 12-14-2012, 02:08 PM

The only time I've felt anything similar is issues with UpRev's revlimiter when I switch back from a low mph/rev -limited map to an unlimited one. If I switch and quickly take off, or switch on the fly while already rolling out through a parking lot, there can be delay before it opens up the limits.

I've felt lots of minor bog issues in this car related to various intake issues, VDC, and the inherent throttle opening delay on this car (which isn't a fixed timer, it's more like the throttle won't open fully until the revs get higher at current throttle settings).

My point about the v6 comparisons is that if the problem is any of these various minor issues with intake parameters, heat soak from high external temps, stock throttle limiting at low revs, etc.... those effects are not normally anywhere near strong enough to describe the problems some people describe in this thread (the multi-second delays with no throttle response at all). Even taking all of those factors into account, there should way more than enough acceleration in this car to avoid serious issues.

Whatever you're facing, it's not the stock throttle map's failure to open fully, it's not just the engine's timing when breathing hot intake air and/or having high coolant temp, it's not a minor intake volume adjustment, and it's not the normal way that the engine limits torque. The only thing that comes close to those symptoms in my experience is VDC limiting wheelslip when you floor the gas more than traction allows for while turning out onto a road.

Other than that, I think anyone that's having such a severe problem has to have a malfunction that needs to be diagnosed. Most of our cars *don't* have this problem, or there would already be a massive recall underway. Even everyday drivers who know nothing about cars wouldn't accept a high rate of cars just completely ignoring gas pedal input for several seconds inexplicably. They'd all be back at the dealership in mass numbers and this would be a huge issue.

If you can reproduce the issue reliably, but you can't figure out what it is on your car that's failing unlike most of the other cars out there on the road, then go reproduce it for a qualified technician (dealership or otherwise) and have them diagnose it. There's got to be something broken and fixable. Either that or a commonality between everyone who really has this severe issue that points at a common defect (e.g. they're all 2009 cars from a certain VIN range which have a certain option).

12-07-2012, 09:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	"when turning" - sure that wasn't VDC? But either way... If you think you're gonna need power, don't be down at 1,200 RPM to start. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

12-13-2012, 12:51 AM	#7 (permalink)
DIGItonium A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,800 Drives: 09 Z34-TT 6MT Rep Power: 43	It's not DBW. If it is, then we'd have this delay issue throughout the rev range. It's just held back in the lower RPMs, which is enough to bog at times (hot weather). __________________

12-13-2012, 11:42 AM	#8 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	I'm glad you guys are so confident in your diagnosis. This thread has like 300 random people complaining of roughly similar, but vague, symptoms. I think I'm right that for most drivers it's either a non-issue, a driver issue, a maintenance issue (dirty sensors, poor tuning, mods, whatever), or VDC. Some of you may have some kind of inexplicable bog in acceleration under certain conditions, and that warrants investigation. Solve the problem, eliminate variables, clean your sensors, check your AF, ask your Nissan dealer to investigate, etc. The car does generally lack torque in the low revs. It's a V6. It's not enough to cause an accident or be a huge impediment to normal driving. The stock throttle also doesn't open fully at low revs no matter how much you push on the gas, in an effort to prevent people wrecking the car, but it still opens way past the halfway mark, and it's more than enough to pull through a corner or get into traffic. Come on, people manage to not have lack-of-acceleration-induced accidents in little economy 4-cyl Hyundais. Diagnose your issues better and you'll find a better answer than "This car sucks and it damn near kills me because I push the go pedal and it don't go". OMGiGOTaZ likes this. __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

12-14-2012, 07:13 AM	#13 (permalink)
DIGItonium A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,800 Drives: 09 Z34-TT 6MT Rep Power: 43	I get this once in awhile and we all are already familiar how the car falls flat on its face in hot weather. It was in the low 50s and oil temps were at least 160-170. The drive from work was fine. I was at home briefly and left to go out to dinner. The car decided not to make much power. I accelerated in 1st and 2nd as usual and when it got to 3k or so it felt like someone took my foot off. I even floored it and it felt like I was in the wrong gear. Later I found myself flooring it several times in 1st and 2nd and it felt similar to accelerating in 5th at low speeds. It wasn't making any power. I couldn't get it to boost either at WOT past4k. Everything seems fine. It idles and cruises well. Afterward the car was fine again. The car doesn't scream either so it feels like throttle isn't opening up fully. Definitely going to get it checked. My tech thinks something is wrong with the throttles after describing times I had difficulty starting the car. Maybe it needs cleaning. [Shrugs] [EDIT] Morning drive was fine. I can get boost easily in any gear at half throttle at 3k. The car will get tail happy if i floor it in 2nd or 3rd haha. Weird? __________________ Last edited by DIGItonium; 12-14-2012 at 08:12 AM.

12-14-2012, 10:56 AM	#14 (permalink)
DIGItonium A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3,800 Drives: 09 Z34-TT 6MT Rep Power: 43	Add to the list is the brake switch. I had similar issues, but I wish there's an easier way to check to see if the brake switch is intermittent. The SLIP light won't indicate the car is cutting power due to faulty brake switch anyhow. I may go ahead and get it checked or suggest replacement. __________________

12-07-2012, 01:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
kenchan A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N/A Posts: 76,801 Drives: N/A Rep Power: 141521	ive not encountered this..?

12-08-2012, 12:22 AM	#4 (permalink)
oro Base Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 192 Drives: G37S Rep Power: 16	As an update since I switched to the Southbend SS with 14lb flywheel, the issue is still there but far less noticeable. I have a feeling it has to do with torque management + our clunky trans design with the lightened flywheel the car jumps off the line cuts throttle very quickly then ramps up like hell if you push it quickly around 1- 1.5k rpm, it didn't fix the problem but it shortened the "return time" in a big way when the car ramps its power back up.

12-12-2012, 10:08 PM	#6 (permalink)
ZForce A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Roseville, CA Posts: 2,359 Drives: 09 370Z Tour + Sport Rep Power: 22	Drive by wire

12-14-2012, 02:08 PM	#15 (permalink)
wstar A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,024 Drives: too slow Rep Power: 3595	The only time I've felt anything similar is issues with UpRev's revlimiter when I switch back from a low mph/rev -limited map to an unlimited one. If I switch and quickly take off, or switch on the fly while already rolling out through a parking lot, there can be delay before it opens up the limits. I've felt lots of minor bog issues in this car related to various intake issues, VDC, and the inherent throttle opening delay on this car (which isn't a fixed timer, it's more like the throttle won't open fully until the revs get higher at current throttle settings). My point about the v6 comparisons is that if the problem is any of these various minor issues with intake parameters, heat soak from high external temps, stock throttle limiting at low revs, etc.... those effects are not normally anywhere near strong enough to describe the problems some people describe in this thread (the multi-second delays with no throttle response at all). Even taking all of those factors into account, there should way more than enough acceleration in this car to avoid serious issues. Whatever you're facing, it's not the stock throttle map's failure to open fully, it's not just the engine's timing when breathing hot intake air and/or having high coolant temp, it's not a minor intake volume adjustment, and it's not the normal way that the engine limits torque. The only thing that comes close to those symptoms in my experience is VDC limiting wheelslip when you floor the gas more than traction allows for while turning out onto a road. Other than that, I think anyone that's having such a severe problem has to have a malfunction that needs to be diagnosed. Most of our cars don't have this problem, or there would already be a massive recall underway. Even everyday drivers who know nothing about cars wouldn't accept a high rate of cars just completely ignoring gas pedal input for several seconds inexplicably. They'd all be back at the dealership in mass numbers and this would be a huge issue. If you can reproduce the issue reliably, but you can't figure out what it is on your car that's failing unlike most of the other cars out there on the road, then go reproduce it for a qualified technician (dealership or otherwise) and have them diagnose it. There's got to be something broken and fixable. Either that or a commonality between everyone who really has this severe issue that points at a common defect (e.g. they're all 2009 cars from a certain VIN range which have a certain option). __________________ 7AT Track Car! Journal thread / Car setup details

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