Help please, I blew my motor and need to plan the rebuild
 

The short story is I downshifted into 3rd at the track on my 80k stock motor and it blew up while spooling up through 6500 RPM or so.

This spit out the bottom
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...32bcfcaab2.jpg

Along with all my oil and my dream of a 2:07 lap

So I'm planning a rebuild. Possibly only the short block

What are the best parts for a weekend warrior track beast/daily driver.

I'm thinking;

Nismo billet oil pump gears?

forged crankshaft?

Overbore the pistons (but how big to still be safe)

Forged pistons? (But which ones)

Forged rods??

Which harmonic dampener/balancer?(to go with my JWT lightweight flywheel?

Stock cam setup and heads?

Larger throttle bodies perhaps?

Z1 400 hp kit (recycled)

What do you all think?

Please provide specific part numbers if able and any advice you might have to help me build a better than stock street motor tough enough for the track

As far as oiling, I have phunk's pan and will add an acusump and probably Nismo billet oil pump gears.

What about throttle bodies and anything else you can think of while I have the motor torn apart?

Thanks in advance for any input. I'm hop ng to get the old girl back up and running soon but hope to use this opportunity to be"better than new"

I got nothing useful to add, but subb'd!

Are you dead set on sticking with the VQ37?

Well an LS swap is pretty cliche but also pretty cool.

Bear in mind though this weekend track car is about to be retired to street use only because I'm mid build on a dedicated track beast.

I'll probably keep my costs down and reliability up by sticking VQ but making it the best possible built version I can reasonably accomplish

I'm considering the stage 2 Z1 Motorsports short block.

https://www.z1motorsports.com/engine...ge-p-7254.html

Check out what IPP has as well. They've got some good options.

Will do! Thanks

Get those JWT exhaust cams while your at it

Sub'd...exciting!

Hi,
Just so you know in the 45 years that I've worked on cars which included many engine rebuilds, when parts disintegrate they don't just fall into the oil pan. Thousands of small metal pieces get sucked in through various intake ports and migrate to all the cylinders as the engine "spools" down and eventually siezes due to the massive parts destruction as shown in your photo.
I'm not trying to burst anyone's bubble but even a destroyed valve will spread and drastically lower any expected longevity of a rebuild if the engine is not completely dismantled, boiled in cleaner and inspected via virtual microscope.
My thoughts don't even account for the ever so close tolerance of your engine. Before you plan I would count on full disassembly and complete professional rebuild.
In the end it's up to you. Don't mean to bother you but just wanted to send you a bit of advice.
Good luck.

Engine failure
 

So wait a minute, you blew your motor and your NA? Judging from your signature it says Z1 400hp kit. I've never seen a NA blow up especially like that. I'm not too experienced in engine building but that kind of destruction must of been from some sort of pre detonation? Can anyone else chime in.

good input!!! thanks. long block it is.

Honestly I think you just had a case of bad luck. Doesn't seem common for these engines to grenade NA at 6500 that's still 1k off redline. Unless you miss shifted and overran the engine I think you just got bad luck.

If not boosted I don't think all the forged stuff is really going to due much for you and keep in mind typically forged pistons weigh more than cast and also need more clearance for heat expansion (I guess there are some forged out there that supposedly don't require this anymore).

Interested to see what you due best of luck.

Well, based on input here, and advice from guys in my area I'm thinking built long block, billet oil gears and am researching a mild overbore to slightly up my displacement

It is not uncommon to blow an NA engine if it's being tracked. The main cause is fuel starvation. If you're tracking your Z frequently you need to either buy a road race pump or keep your fuel above 3/4 tank. It's happened before. Check out ban25s thread.

No fuel starve here!

I have Phunk's road race pump. Racing goodness down to the last drop.

(also his road race oil pan.)

So why would "spooling down/up" caused it to let go do you think? The motors age and lots of track days making it weaker?

I'd get weights for all the stock reciprocating parts and spec out lighter, stronger replacements. They won't have to be forced induction beefy but less reciprocating weight would be a bonus on an n/a motor along with anything to reduce friction.

wow,
that's a really heated up looking rod it spit out-unsure what your oil temp's are looking like or even the oil type/intervals.
I'm over 82k & drive the (@#*%) out of mine at times & even bumping off the 7800rpm limiter,seen engine oil temp 240-250 & never had the slightest rattle.
Mind you/only have 320whp...but I will push it on a regular basis.
your's may have had a loss of oil pressure,at some point in time.

Just realized you had an 09. Could have been a rear timing cover gasket issue. They're known to degrade and cause a loss in oil pressure.

That is a near- perfect example of failed big-end bearing seizing, tearing the gudgeon pin (little-end) out of the piston and then cutting the engine in 2 and generally self-destructing ........

You have an oil problem of some kind I would think. It could be pressure as a consequence of bearing wear (clearances too great for required pressure), or it could be cr4p in the oil causing bearing pickup between rod and crank but to avoid it happening again, you need a diagnosis on what happened.

This requires a pro-engine builder to assess ..............

Why don't you give Clark @ JWT a call and email him your photo's ..........

With the much heat in the rod, the crank will be FUBAR as well ........... time to start again with another block I reckon.

Charles' (Phunk) sump is good, but it will have limits and you may have found them. What tyres are you using (how much lateral grip is being generated) ........ are you logging anything (looking for tell-tale pressure fluctuation) ....... there is a diagnosis process you can go thru

This needs a serious review before just building another engine.

It could be dry-sump time - worst case.

1.3 gs. Toyo RRs (18x275)
I suspect either oil starve due to failed non nismo oil gears or due to limits of pan capability. I'm building a dedicated track car this year so won't be tracking the z much going forward but once we tear down we'll diagnose the fail and possibly put in an acusump and warning light for pending oil pressure drops (Off the acusump)

Great input guys!

I'll send more photos as we tear down

Question should I have a local machine shop with good experience build up a long block or order one from IPP or Z1.

(I love their stuff, but Z1 seems a little pricy by comparison)

Help please, I blew my motor and need to plan the rebuild
 

I'm thinking the stage 1 IPP 11/1 compression built long block with Nismo billet oil gears and an acusump. As a start. Recycle my 400 hp kit and look at the crank. I can't use an ATI fluid harmonic dampener (no dry sump). So I'm probably stuck with the OEM dampener.

If the crank broke from harmonics I'll put in a closer to stock weight flywheel. Instead of my existing lightweight one (which I love )

Thoughts??

Call Z1. There is a reason IPP is cheaper. Do not skimp or you will be doing this again.

Why can't you use an ATI damper?

ATI made a pulley that works with our stock setup. Might have to call MA motorsports to get one. I have it and it really smooths the engine out in the higher rpm. Love it.

Good info. I was researching and only saw dampers that work without a dipstick (dry sumped). I'll call ATI and get the real story.

I don't think harmonics blew my crank but at this point anything is possible.

I have the ATI damper also. MA motorsports is your friend.

I have the ATI dampener from MA Motorsports too.

If it was rod bearing failure. The rod bolts could have stretch enough the let the bearing spin. I've had this happened to me. It was hard to pin down because all the parts was new.

Link to the most recent (2nd) group buy on here.
These were the standard replacement ones.
http://www.the370z.com/group-buys/11...round-2-a.html

Good point .......... another reason to use ARP products

Interesting I didn't hear ban had an issue. I occasionally track but try to keep a full tank. What happenend here a lean mis under load in turn exit?

Wait so the ATI damper now fits non dry sump? Last I checked they still didn't. Anyone with one comment on if it smooths the slight buzz in the feet at 6000-7500? I know they (nissan) did a lot of work in the new vq35de and it is smooth all the way to 6500.

Where the F you been? I've had my ATI dampener since 12/15. :eek:

This does look like dry sump time. Once he get's his oil pump out we shall know more. I wonder what the gears look like in the oil pump and if this is the only rod bearing to have oiling issues.

Ok I guess the note says dry sump only, call for oem application. Guess I need to call.

Any noticeable difference in engine smoothness at high rpm?

Never really notice. So it must be doing something. :icon17:

410-593-7080


Shoot me a call, I have a few on the shelf. ATI will not have any in stock, and depending on who you get may not even realize this exists. We worked with them a few years ago to bring on to market that is compatible with stock.


-Daelen

Hey,


As a few others in this thread have mentioned, you will want to take that motor all the way down to nothing and get it all cleaned/inspected. New stock crank at the minimum, Bryant has a 3.7 or a 4.0 crank we use, but, depending on your budget that may not be in the cards.


Shoot me a PM or call me at 410-593-7080 would be more than happy to go over some options with you, and we do also have the ATI dampers in stock currently. There are a few engine options out there for you depending what all you need the car to do.


-Daelen

Stage 2 Short block on the way from Z1. Also a new oil cooler core and Nissan Motorsport steel gear oil pump. I'll be remachining my heads here in denver.

Here's some of the schrapnel found in the pan!!!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...dfeb785dce.jpg

It should be a good strong motor once I'm done.