What to look for and WHY: Coilovers

Alstann

I agree with this - to a point. I think for most normal drivers who desire to modify their car to a certain degree, lower-end coilovers are sufficient. Would you argue that the driver has more effect on the car than the coilover?

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AZP Installs

Agree for the most part as well, that's why we have "Street/Show- Springs and Struts or BC/Fortune/Knockoff-o-rama"

If you are going for "stance" then the knockoffs work fine because you aren't going for performance. The problem with them is their dampening is actually worse than the OEM ones in terms of consistency from coil to coil even in the same set. A good friend Angelo from ANZE suspensions gave a great talk at one of our track events to our racers and DE folks about how on these low end and even some of the entry level stuff 2 front dampers will be completely different on the shock dyno from each other. This leads to instability etc. etc.

As for driver skill, we always feel that the first mod on any car should be fixing the nut behind the wheel through education and practice at the track even if it is a stock car doing DE sessions. This "mod" is easily moved from one vehicle to the next as well.

As for driver skills overcoming poor coils, yes it's possible but given how inconsistent some of these coils are, why put yourself at a disadvantage if performance driving is your goal?

-mike

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'14 Touareg TDi | '04 Nissan Armada | '13 Subaru BRZ

1Stunna

What are your thoughts or 2 cents about Tein Mono flex. Seems like no one talking about these on here. Want to hear.

Slartibartfas

Bump for a couple of reasons. Read the far north racing site's Autocross to Win series. It will help you decide what you want from your damper and supports Mike's opinion.
Autocross to Win (DGs Autocross Secrets) - ATW Home Page

Also, Broadway Static now customizes Fortune Auto coil-overs. Digressive damping curve matched to your requested spring rates.
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets.html

Finally, MyG37.com board hosts the RWD Sedan Coil-over list in the suspension forum. All the companies listed have a Z34 option. I'm stunned at how long the list is!

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2011 Journey Sport sedan 7AT | SPL front, SPC rear camber arms | ARK Grip cat-back |

synolimit

Have to bump this. So even fortune now with dyno sheets when bought are still a cheapo coil like the 510's? Whiteline endlinks just snap on this car so I wouldn't prompt them either if I was you.

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13 370z-

AZP Installs

We've never had WL end links snap on the 1000s we've installed on subies. Can't say for the 370z. There is also a difference between end links that may have had a bad batch and something like a coilover.

As for the dyno sheets, I'd have to test them and verify them to speak to them, but that is definitely a move in the right direction for the fortune auto ones. But at their prices, if they are doing a proper shock dyno/matched setup the price will begin to creep up as their labor costs also increase.

-Mike Paisan


Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001.
Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs
"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

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'14 Touareg TDi | '04 Nissan Armada | '13 Subaru BRZ

synolimit

This isn't a subi forum yo! And Z bars are like double the girth.

Check it out then, I'll buy from a vender that's a third party tester to confirm. And their 510 is like $1700, I wouldn't think that's that cheap.

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13 370z-

AZP Installs

There you go...

$1700 is still very inexpensive for coilovers. It also depends on what your goals are with your car. If it's for looks/stance/ride height, then any coilovers will do. If you want repeatability on the race track that doesn't depend on the springs stiffness and has actually wheel travel you will start looking at the more expensive coils. We had a client/fellow racer who had very expensive Motons on his Caymen S racecar. The car would constantly would go into limp mode after hitting curbing on the track. They brought in all kinds of experts to try to get the ECU to stop going into limp mode. Eventually we suggested they raise the car up. As soon as they did that, the car stopped going into limp mode because the suspension travel had been restored and the wheels were actually staying on the ground.

-Mike Paisan


Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001.
Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs
"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

Vnismo370z

FLEX is for cars that want to "Flex" like negative camber type stuff.

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starting over

Chuck33079

The Whitelines for the Z suck. I've got a busted set in my garage right now.

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2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

AZP Installs

I would contact Whiteline, as they have a very good customer service department, they will replace them for you for free.

-Mike Paisan


Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001.
Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs
"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

Chuck33079

I'd rather pay for a set of SPLs than buy another set of Whitelines. They aren't a good part on this platform. They make good parts in general. These are just a rare misstep.

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2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

AZP Installs

Well free is free, but I understand, they do have rare mis-steps like that. Next time our rep calls us up I will make sure to have a discussion about these parts specifically and see what their take on the issue is.

-Mike Paisan


Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001.
Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs
"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

Chuck33079

They need to look at their balljoint supplier. I can't see them making their own. The threaded portion of the end link needs to be a harder metal as well.

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2011 MB Touring-Sport-6sp-Nav/GTM TT/FI TT TDX/JTran/Kosmic/Eibach/Hotchkis/SPC/CSF/RPS/SoThatsWhereAllMyMoneyWent

MaysEffect

The amount of vague information here is pretty surprising. Springs in relations to ride quality and ride height is barely mentioned here, yet so much is blamed on the dampers and price. Yet no one is questioning how the spring comes into play here....

9 times out of 10 what makes or breaks a suspension system is the capacity and quality of the springs and its implementation of supporting the weight of the vehicle. At the end of the day it is the spring"COILover" that facilitates the working motion of a suspension system. All other items and factors are secondary to this.

Most kits that have bad road feel, improper wheel travel and bump problems comes from a improperly matched spring for the ride height set by the user and overall compression capacity for the weight and and subsequent load during harder driving situations. The damper is not suppose to support the weight of the vehicle, its job is to absorb road imperfections and harmonic imbalances the SPRING creates. Having shocks with valve rates set stiffer to mitigate spring binding and bump is a poorly formulated solution for bad wheel rates. In most cases the damper should be as free flowing as possible without limiting spring travel.

There is a reason springs are usually the only object in the suspension system that has the [force per travel (ex. KG/mm)] information listed in the details of the product. You'll probably never see the shocks value of measurement because its extremely variable based on several factors.

It was mentioned earlier in this thread, but even though the defining factor of the kit is the spring rate (and overall load rating), the overall cost for a kit is defined by the quality and features available on the shock. Where as springs generally have a fixed price, the design of a shock is dependent on its tune-ability and build quality, most of which are unnecessary additives for road cars once you get passed the basic ability to change ride height and compression and rebound.

Way too much emphasis are put on the design of the shock here and its function. The tube design does play a role in overall cost and implementation, little of its capabilities are a defining feature. On average, a normal road car such as the 370z will only get up to about 5 inches and compression and rebound from static ride height. Any version of monotube or twintube damper can support this wheel travel. But in almost every case, a twintube shock is the cheaper option. This alone is the primary reason behind it being used more in OEM and lower priced shocks. In either case, neither design should have to bare the load of the vehicle and the bending forces of the wheel.

I can elaborate further for those who care. With regards with some problematic information -

This is so vaguely uninformative. For one - If you are going for the "stance" setup, its even MORE important to have the correct setup. With a lower suspension than advised, you are dealing with decreased wheel travel. Secondly - Saying the dampening is WORSE is horribly vague. What defines worse here? Way too stiff? Way too soft?

Well if its too stiff then that would actually make sense, as you have reduced travel and in turn reduced time for absorption. Instability can come from a plethora of factors in this instance. Bottoming out, not enough travel before bumpstops, Improper corner rates, and overloading the tires from any of these reasons.

Saying the dyno figures are off from "coil to coil" doesn't exactly mean anything either. Was the preload values the same? Was the temperatures the same? Was it tested with or without a spring? Saying this gives zero emphasis one what the ACTUAL problem could be. A company simply having horrible consistency between products doesn't truly argue bad quality but incompetency of the technicians of assembling the products.