Factory speaker question

BrandonT · 06-02-2011, 12:17 AM

I'm looking to replace my speakers with some aftermarket units, but I'll be using the factory wiring. My question is where is the crossover? It is probably just a cap and resistor for the tweeter, so I'm hoping it is right at the tweeter terminals? I just don't want to use the factory wiring and have the crossover buried in the door somewhere and not remove it. Also I assume the woofer and tweeter are wired in parallel?

90 ST · 06-02-2011, 01:46 AM

yes it's just a cap on the tweeter, but do your self a favor and change the wire. If you are puting in a componate set it will be easier to run new wire anyway. Also if you have a bose system you'll have some new problems.

bigaudiofanat · 06-02-2011, 09:53 AM

As said above, if this is a bose system your not going to be able to just plug new speakers or new tweeters right in. The bose system is a special OHMS rating as to the new stuff you would put in. Your best bet is to install a new amp or a new head unit and run off that.

If you have a base system than you can run new speakers just run new wires and use the crossover that comes with the new speakers.

Wicked CAS · 06-02-2011, 09:58 AM

You can get a 5 channel XD amp and run your speakers and sub at the same time, I have done this set up in many 370Z installs. We bridge the 4 channel output to fronts only and it is a great improvement over stock.

You may want to invest on the amp since you will be doing most of the work anyways. let me know if you need an amp.

BrandonT · 06-02-2011, 02:02 PM

I had the base non-Bose system, and upgraded the HU to a JVC unit a couple weeks ago so I could play mp3's off my usb stick. I don't want ot get wrapped up in upgrading everything but the factory speakers are pretty crappy. So I'm looking bang for the buck and will probably go with a Scanspeak Discovery woofer and SB Acoustics SB29 tweeter. Both are very capable at the extremes of their passband, so I have maximum flexibility in regards to the crossover point. Just wanted to make sure there wasn't a cap or coil buried in the door or dash.

90 ST · 06-02-2011, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrandonT

I had the base non-Bose system, and upgraded the HU to a JVC unit a couple weeks ago so I could play mp3's off my usb stick. I don't want ot get wrapped up in upgrading everything but the factory speakers are pretty crappy. So I'm looking bang for the buck and will probably go with a Scanspeak Discovery woofer and SB Acoustics SB29 tweeter. Both are very capable at the extremes of their passband, so I have maximum flexibility in regards to the crossover point. Just wanted to make sure there wasn't a cap or coil buried in the door or dash.

For that much money you would be better of getting a 6.5" set, as thats what fits the doors, from a car audio line.

BrandonT · 06-02-2011, 04:32 PM

I thought they were 5 1/4" factory? With only certain shallower 6 1/2" being able to fit? With the standard mounting ring do you know how much depth I have to work with?

EDIT: Using a spacer how much room does one typically have before the speaker hits the grill? I may still go with the 5 1/4", I can EQ more bass, but I can't EQ directivity.

bigaudiofanat · 06-02-2011, 05:26 PM

ANY 6.5 will fit and is the standard size, if you want to install a deeper speaker in than just use a spacer which will not effect anything with the door or window. You could put a 5 1/4 but would just be wasting useful space. If you are looking for good deals for amps and all check out woofersetc and sonic electronics, there is also ebay and amazon if you want to really save some money. I have bought and recommend all the above and never had any issues.

BrandonT · 06-02-2011, 06:04 PM

I may get the 6 1/2" Scanspeak in that case. Coming from the home audio world I'd prefer to work with the wider dispersion of the 5 1/4", especially since I may cross these fairly high and/or at 2nd order slopes, but I suppose the car environment is so compromised that the difference in dispersion is probably swamped by other considerations. Like mediocre versus non-existent bass for one. And many close reflections swamping response for another.

90 ST · 06-03-2011, 01:25 AM

Car audio speakers are meant for the enviroment, both with dispersion patterns as well as moisture, not to mention home speakers for the most part are very picky about the enclosure, a car door is far from enclosed. A good car speaker is the way to go in this application. Now if you were doing some nice kicks...maybe, but a door, not so much.

BrandonT · 06-03-2011, 05:19 AM

Well I'll just have to respectfully disagree with that. There is nothing to cause them to have a different dispersion than a home audio driver, they are not any more water proof. If you said pro audio than I would agree! Car audio products tend to be the overpriced and dumbed down version of their home audio siblings. And while there are good car audio drivers there are few third party measurements. The biggest car audio site that does measurements is diyma and 80% of the drivers they measure are typical home audio drivers.

90 ST · 06-03-2011, 09:31 PM

the speakers i have looked at have some differences, such as shape of the cone, as for no more water proof, i would watch for paper cones, and foam surounds, not to mention the material some home speakers are made with.
The fact that I work for a company that manufactures both home and car speakers, and have talked to the engineers about the differences, I would not run home speakers in a car. But that’s me.

bigaudiofanat · 06-04-2011, 01:34 AM

I am going to have to agree with 90 on this, yes a home speaker may sound great at home however there are a lot of things you may be over looking. Such as the nice directinal placement of speakers in a house, along with the tuned or corect size boxes for the speakers. I would look at something made for car audio espeacially sense the door panels are made to allow water to drain threw the center of the door. This can cause damage to paper speakers.

BrandonT · 06-04-2011, 09:42 AM

Great points. I like the debate so far so don't take what I say personally. I take audio pretty seriously but there is so much mythology I like to set the record straight whenever I can.

About those paper cones...OEM speakers are paper. The top of the line Alpines from couple years ago were paper (rebranded Scanspeak Revs). So do the OEM's and Alpine not know how to make a proper car speaker? Personally I agree with you guys in that I wouldn't be keen on uncoated paper cones in a car, but I also beleive my concern is probably unfounded.

I doubt anyone car audio manufacturer is considering water draining when making a driver. How many coated cloth spiders have you seen? How many woofers have vented (steel!) pole pieces? There simply is no consideration for water in car or home audio. There is in pro audio for at least the front of the driver, with a water resistant coating being applied to most. Mostly it is moot point though, very few drivers are paper anymore.

Foam surrounds are nearly impossible to find except a few higher end midrange specific drivers.

As far as enclosures there is no real difference, other than some manufacturers using a higher Q in the car audio driver, but that is not universal. It may not even be that common anymore, I don't know. Anyway it's not that useful in era of widespread EQ ability.

I would be curious what changes your company made to cone profile due it being a car audio driver and why. I've never seen any manufacturer that makes both home and car audio do such a thing.

As a practical matter if things like directivity and proper enclosures are so far down the list of things to consider due to the compromised environment of a car, any percieved differences between car and home drivers must be down in the mud in importance. It's like saying since I have a Yugo things like handling and speed aren't even things to consider worrying about, so I'll just put N2 in the tires because that is one thing I have control of

bigaudiofanat · 06-04-2011, 12:33 PM

I also take audio very seriously. I own almost 900 original albums a\that I have ripped in lossless format and also have a carver amp and martin logan speakers at home.

06-02-2011, 12:17 AM	#1 (permalink)
BrandonT Base Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Denver Posts: 169 Drives: 2009 370Z White Rep Power: 14	Factory speaker question I'm looking to replace my speakers with some aftermarket units, but I'll be using the factory wiring. My question is where is the crossover? It is probably just a cap and resistor for the tweeter, so I'm hoping it is right at the tweeter terminals? I just don't want to use the factory wiring and have the crossover buried in the door somewhere and not remove it. Also I assume the woofer and tweeter are wired in parallel?

06-02-2011, 09:53 AM	#3 (permalink)
bigaudiofanat Car Audio Installer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Magnolia DE Posts: 8,342 Drives: 2012 Infiniti G37x Rep Power: 852	As said above, if this is a bose system your not going to be able to just plug new speakers or new tweeters right in. The bose system is a special OHMS rating as to the new stuff you would put in. Your best bet is to install a new amp or a new head unit and run off that. If you have a base system than you can run new speakers just run new wires and use the crossover that comes with the new speakers. __________________ Need help with car audio or electronics? Let me know!! Need Help Let Me Know Direct email address reimermatt@gmail.com Owner of: Dynamic Mobile Audio Follow me below https://www.facebook.com/Dynamicmobileaudio/

06-02-2011, 09:58 AM	#4 (permalink)
Wicked CAS The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Kingston, NH. Posts: 469 Drives: 98 Supra 1036 RWHP Rep Power: 15	You can get a 5 channel XD amp and run your speakers and sub at the same time, I have done this set up in many 370Z installs. We bridge the 4 channel output to fronts only and it is a great improvement over stock. You may want to invest on the amp since you will be doing most of the work anyways. let me know if you need an amp. __________________ www.wickedcas.com Call: 603-642-4222 E-mail: Wickedcas@aol.com *DIRECT AUTHORIZED DEALER FOR:* AUDISON, HERTZ, JL AUDIO, JL AUDIO MARINE, KENWOOD EXCELON, COMPUSTAR, DIAMOND AUDIO, CACHE, ARC AUDIO, K40, PASSPORT ESCORT.

06-02-2011, 02:02 PM	#5 (permalink)
BrandonT Base Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Denver Posts: 169 Drives: 2009 370Z White Rep Power: 14	I had the base non-Bose system, and upgraded the HU to a JVC unit a couple weeks ago so I could play mp3's off my usb stick. I don't want ot get wrapped up in upgrading everything but the factory speakers are pretty crappy. So I'm looking bang for the buck and will probably go with a Scanspeak Discovery woofer and SB Acoustics SB29 tweeter. Both are very capable at the extremes of their passband, so I have maximum flexibility in regards to the crossover point. Just wanted to make sure there wasn't a cap or coil buried in the door or dash. Last edited by BrandonT; 06-02-2011 at 02:07 PM.

06-02-2011, 04:32 PM	#7 (permalink)
BrandonT Base Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Denver Posts: 169 Drives: 2009 370Z White Rep Power: 14	I thought they were 5 1/4" factory? With only certain shallower 6 1/2" being able to fit? With the standard mounting ring do you know how much depth I have to work with? EDIT: Using a spacer how much room does one typically have before the speaker hits the grill? I may still go with the 5 1/4", I can EQ more bass, but I can't EQ directivity. Last edited by BrandonT; 06-02-2011 at 05:21 PM.

06-02-2011, 01:46 AM	#2 (permalink)
90 ST A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: Calgary Posts: 1,861 Drives: 90 and 15 GMC Sierra Rep Power: 420	yes it's just a cap on the tweeter, but do your self a favor and change the wire. If you are puting in a componate set it will be easier to run new wire anyway. Also if you have a bose system you'll have some new problems.

06-02-2011, 05:26 PM	#8 (permalink)
bigaudiofanat Car Audio Installer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Magnolia DE Posts: 8,342 Drives: 2012 Infiniti G37x Rep Power: 852	ANY 6.5 will fit and is the standard size, if you want to install a deeper speaker in than just use a spacer which will not effect anything with the door or window. You could put a 5 1/4 but would just be wasting useful space. If you are looking for good deals for amps and all check out woofersetc and sonic electronics, there is also ebay and amazon if you want to really save some money. I have bought and recommend all the above and never had any issues. __________________ Need help with car audio or electronics? Let me know!! Need Help Let Me Know Direct email address reimermatt@gmail.com Owner of: Dynamic Mobile Audio Follow me below https://www.facebook.com/Dynamicmobileaudio/

06-02-2011, 06:04 PM	#9 (permalink)
BrandonT Base Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Denver Posts: 169 Drives: 2009 370Z White Rep Power: 14	I may get the 6 1/2" Scanspeak in that case. Coming from the home audio world I'd prefer to work with the wider dispersion of the 5 1/4", especially since I may cross these fairly high and/or at 2nd order slopes, but I suppose the car environment is so compromised that the difference in dispersion is probably swamped by other considerations. Like mediocre versus non-existent bass for one. And many close reflections swamping response for another. Last edited by BrandonT; 06-02-2011 at 06:10 PM.

06-03-2011, 01:25 AM	#10 (permalink)
90 ST A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: Calgary Posts: 1,861 Drives: 90 and 15 GMC Sierra Rep Power: 420	Car audio speakers are meant for the enviroment, both with dispersion patterns as well as moisture, not to mention home speakers for the most part are very picky about the enclosure, a car door is far from enclosed. A good car speaker is the way to go in this application. Now if you were doing some nice kicks...maybe, but a door, not so much.

06-03-2011, 05:19 AM	#11 (permalink)
BrandonT Base Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Denver Posts: 169 Drives: 2009 370Z White Rep Power: 14	Well I'll just have to respectfully disagree with that. There is nothing to cause them to have a different dispersion than a home audio driver, they are not any more water proof. If you said pro audio than I would agree! Car audio products tend to be the overpriced and dumbed down version of their home audio siblings. And while there are good car audio drivers there are few third party measurements. The biggest car audio site that does measurements is diyma and 80% of the drivers they measure are typical home audio drivers.

06-03-2011, 09:31 PM	#12 (permalink)
90 ST A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: Calgary Posts: 1,861 Drives: 90 and 15 GMC Sierra Rep Power: 420	the speakers i have looked at have some differences, such as shape of the cone, as for no more water proof, i would watch for paper cones, and foam surounds, not to mention the material some home speakers are made with. The fact that I work for a company that manufactures both home and car speakers, and have talked to the engineers about the differences, I would not run home speakers in a car. But that’s me.

06-04-2011, 01:34 AM	#13 (permalink)
bigaudiofanat Car Audio Installer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Magnolia DE Posts: 8,342 Drives: 2012 Infiniti G37x Rep Power: 852	I am going to have to agree with 90 on this, yes a home speaker may sound great at home however there are a lot of things you may be over looking. Such as the nice directinal placement of speakers in a house, along with the tuned or corect size boxes for the speakers. I would look at something made for car audio espeacially sense the door panels are made to allow water to drain threw the center of the door. This can cause damage to paper speakers. __________________ Need help with car audio or electronics? Let me know!! Need Help Let Me Know Direct email address reimermatt@gmail.com Owner of: Dynamic Mobile Audio Follow me below https://www.facebook.com/Dynamicmobileaudio/

06-04-2011, 09:42 AM	#14 (permalink)
BrandonT Base Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Denver Posts: 169 Drives: 2009 370Z White Rep Power: 14	Great points. I like the debate so far so don't take what I say personally. I take audio pretty seriously but there is so much mythology I like to set the record straight whenever I can. About those paper cones...OEM speakers are paper. The top of the line Alpines from couple years ago were paper (rebranded Scanspeak Revs). So do the OEM's and Alpine not know how to make a proper car speaker? Personally I agree with you guys in that I wouldn't be keen on uncoated paper cones in a car, but I also beleive my concern is probably unfounded. I doubt anyone car audio manufacturer is considering water draining when making a driver. How many coated cloth spiders have you seen? How many woofers have vented (steel!) pole pieces? There simply is no consideration for water in car or home audio. There is in pro audio for at least the front of the driver, with a water resistant coating being applied to most. Mostly it is moot point though, very few drivers are paper anymore. Foam surrounds are nearly impossible to find except a few higher end midrange specific drivers. As far as enclosures there is no real difference, other than some manufacturers using a higher Q in the car audio driver, but that is not universal. It may not even be that common anymore, I don't know. Anyway it's not that useful in era of widespread EQ ability. I would be curious what changes your company made to cone profile due it being a car audio driver and why. I've never seen any manufacturer that makes both home and car audio do such a thing. As a practical matter if things like directivity and proper enclosures are so far down the list of things to consider due to the compromised environment of a car, any percieved differences between car and home drivers must be down in the mud in importance. It's like saying since I have a Yugo things like handling and speed aren't even things to consider worrying about, so I'll just put N2 in the tires because that is one thing I have control of Last edited by BrandonT; 06-04-2011 at 01:21 PM.

06-04-2011, 12:33 PM	#15 (permalink)
bigaudiofanat Car Audio Installer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Magnolia DE Posts: 8,342 Drives: 2012 Infiniti G37x Rep Power: 852	I also take audio very seriously. I own almost 900 original albums a\that I have ripped in lossless format and also have a carver amp and martin logan speakers at home. __________________ Need help with car audio or electronics? Let me know!! Need Help Let Me Know Direct email address reimermatt@gmail.com Owner of: Dynamic Mobile Audio Follow me below https://www.facebook.com/Dynamicmobileaudio/

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