The "Will it fit?" thread

[Darwins Child]

Originally Posted by jchammond

Stock Sport Wheels are 19x9+47F & 19x10+30R
The offset differential for these cars is right at 1", so with the same diameter wheels (F/R) 25mm spacers will put them close to spot on...(20-25mm pending on camber adjustment)
That's why you see a 9.5+25 & 10.5+12 a common fitment....1" difference in wheels = 12,13mm offset difference.

Thanks.

If I understand you correctly, if I install 25mm spacers on the rear hubs, when I install on top of them the narrower OEM sport fronts, the outside edges of the rims with respect to the opening edge of the wheel/fender well will be very close to where the edges of the OEM rear sport wheel would be, correct?

If I were willing to live with the look of the wheel being inside the wheel well a bit (in other words, without a spacer installed), would there still be adequate roome between a front wheel and the rear caliper (or any other component, for that matter)? (This situation may actually help prevent some of the road debris that is normally picked up from hitting as much of the painted parts of the vehicle, but I might be wrong on that.)

While I'm at it, in order to install a 25mm spacer, do the OEM studs have to be shortened so that they don't poke out of the spacer?

[jchammond]

No, 25mm spacers on rear with 19x10 wheels will be a flusher fit with the 19x10's on front...talking 4 rear wheels.

[jchammond]

That would be a 19x10+30 front & a 19x10+5(after 25mm spacers) on the rear...a 20mm may be closer / pending what your rear camber is.
More-camber can tolerate more aggressive spacers.

[Darwins Child]

Thanks for taking the time, jchammond. I'm new to both the 370Z (we bought our Z in the spring) and the science / jargon of staggered tires, spacers, etc., so please forgive me for my ignorance and treat me like a 5-year-old when it comes to this subject.

Originally Posted by jchammond

No, 25mm spacers on rear with 19x10 wheels will be a flusher fit with the 19x10's on front...talking 4 rear wheels.

I think you are saying how to make imaginary lines drawn through the outer edges of a Z that has 4 rear wheels installed on it as parallel as possible, correct? That is, if rears are installed on the front, their outer edge is going to poke out more than the rears do. And in order to make the rears poke out that same distance, the rear 19", 275mm-wide OEM Rays wheels need a 25 or 20mm spacer, correct?

Originally Posted by jchammond

That would be a 19x10+30 front & a 19x10+5(after 25mm spacers) on the rear...a 20mm may be closer / pending what your rear camber is.
More-camber can tolerate more aggressive spacers.

You pretty much lost me here.

FWIW, our vehicle now has about 10,200 km (6,338 miles). AFAIK the camber on all wheels is as it came from the factory, whatever that is.

You say "19x10+30 front". So this is if rears are put on the front (as I suggested in my original post). What does the "+30" mean -- that the edge of the wheel will "poke out" 30mm from where they normally are (as if a 30mm spacer were installed on the OEM front wheel)?

The OEM rear, still on the rear, having the 25mm spacer installed, will be "+5". What does that "+5" mean?

Then you suggest that a 20mm spacer instead of the 25mm "may be closer", but I'm not sure closer to what -- being flush with the fender -- the edge of the rear wheel being "even" (on the same straight line) with the edge of the front?

I'd be very interested to see what a rear looks like on the front without actually having to manage that with our vehicle. If all of the above is done as you suggest, do all of the wheels poke out from the wheel wells? Do you happen to have a photo of a Z that has the rear OEM sport wheel and tire on the front?

It's beginning to sound to me like the way to go is with 4 fronts instead of 4 rears. What do you think of that option as opposed to 4 rears?

Thanks again.

[jchammond]

Bingo!

[jchammond]

Camber play's a huge role on proper offset & fitment.
Camber is negative on front & rear of car from the factory (wheels lean inward) the rear has twice as much neg-camber as the front (from the factory)
Example F-0.8* R-1.6* (* is for degrees)
on a 26.5" diameter tire/the wheel will lean inward 7mm for every degree of negative camber....3.5for 0.5*,10.5mm for 1.5*etc....
easiest way i found to properly space,is to ensure your alignment is to your suit & then tape a small plumb weight to a string on fender's -directly over center of wheel & measure your gaps (rim lip or tire sidewall) Be sure to park on level surface w/no wind.

[Darwins Child]

Originally Posted by jchammond

Camber play's a huge role on proper offset & fitment.
Camber is negative on front & rear of car from the factory (wheels lean inward) the rear has twice as much neg-camber as the front (from the factory)
Example F-0.8* R-1.6* (* is for degrees)
on a 26.5" diameter tire/the wheel will lean inward 7mm for every degree of negative camber....3.5for 0.5*,10.5mm for 1.5*etc....
easiest way i found to properly space,is to ensure your alignment is to your suit & then tape a small plumb weight to a string on fender's -directly over center of wheel & measure your gaps (rim lip or tire sidewall) Be sure to park on level surface w/no wind.

What is the typical ultimate goal of "properly spacing" -- to bring the top-most point of the edge of the wheel/tire "even with" the top-most part of the wheel/fender well?

I just examined the passenger-side wheel/tires on our vehicle, with the front wheels pointed directly ahead. I placed a short carpenter's level against the edge of the top-most ("highest") portion of the fender-well, adjusted the level plumb and made a rough estimate of the space between the part of the tire that bulges out the most and the side of the level. Looks to be very roughly 1". If I were to install a rear wheel on the front, would that gap disappear, or would the tire go beyond that imaginary plumb line?

So I assume that this intentional camber is why the tires on the Z, especially the rears, tend to wear on the inside, correct? If this is the case, then I would imagine that tire rotation becomes even more important.

In the case of the OEM sport wheel/tire setup with directional fronts and rears, to do the only rotation allowed -- side to side -- all four tires will have to be removed from their rims and then the sides swapped so that tire rotation remains the same. How often (after how many miles) do owners actually go through this process? Each time that happens the owner runs the risk of the tire place damaging one or more rims, which is not a nice prospect, IMO.

At least if you've got tires that can rotate in either direction you can do the side to side rotation yourself without removing tires from wheels.

Since writing my first comment on this thread I was told that none of the local tire businesses will deal with vehicles that have spacers installed. So far I have called Costco to confirm that the owner whose vehicle has spacers literally has to take the wheels off the vehicle and bring them to the tire place to have tires installed on them and that if Costco does not actually install the wheel/tire combo onto the vehicle they will not honor any part of the tire warranty. Because this is the busiest time of the year for tire dealers in Edmonton, I have not been able to confirm this with other tire dealers.

Anyway, back to the four front scenario. Will a front wheel installed on the rear clear the caliper without a spacer? Does a front on the rear without a spacer look really weird or present any operational issue?

Thanks.

[jchammond]

Darwins Child,pm sent

[jchammond]

A front 9"+47 offset will sink way in on the rear & probably hit the brakes? My factory base 9"wide rears are +15 with a 5mm spacer/ but I have less that 1* neg camber.....tires will evenly wear on your Z unless you are burning them off,,,negative camber is for the curvy roads.
I mostly straight line & burn mine/so I adjusted my camber more straight up & down. You would need 35-45mm worth of spacers to bring a front wheel flush on the rear of a sport...not recommended. The rear 10" on the front will be 5mm further out than the stock wheel w/25mm spacers.


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[OptionZero]

oh my god. Reading that exchange made my head hurt. We're reduced to putting front wheels on the rear of the Z?

What is the goal here?

I mean, you're putting all seasons to get through the snow season, just slap them on your existing wheels.

Stock suspension, all season tires, oem wheels . . . lets just throw looks out of the equation and go with cheap and practical (as can be for driving a Z in the snow)

[/Angelo350Z/]

Darwins Child, just get 20mm front and 25mm rear spacers on your OEM Rays and you'll be set. The forum has countless pictures of that setup, including myself. If you're worried about rotating tires, then perhaps a sports car with factory staggered wheels and tires wasn't the best choice. Still, you can make it work with either going relatively wide up front, or relatively skinny in the rear. A square setup is a compromise either way you slice it. If you're going to drive your Z in the snow, then wheel spacers "for the right look" should be the least of your concerns.

[Darwins Child]

Originally Posted by /Angelo350Z/

Darwins Child, just get 20mm front and 25mm rear spacers on your OEM Rays and you'll be set. The forum has countless pictures of that setup, including myself.
.................

I just happened to stumble upon a Z owner who did exactly that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI40CSA_WWU

Even though I must admit that the result looks good, I think I could sleep quite comfortably with no spacers on the rear.

But if I did decide to get spacers for the rear, are 25mm spacers that are made out of steel available for the Z, or is it aluminum or nothing? Even though the wheels themselves are made out of aluminum, for a critical part with this purpose, I would prefer steel, just like the OEM hub.

Thanks for the education.

[/Angelo350Z/]

Originally Posted by Darwins Child

I just happened to stumble upon a Z owner who did exactly that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI40CSA_WWU

Even though I must admit that the result looks good, I think I could sleep quite comfortably with no spacers on the rear.

But if I did decide to get spacers for the rear, are 25mm spacers that are made out of steel available for the Z, or is it aluminum or nothing? Even though the wheels themselves are made out of aluminum, for a critical part with this purpose, I would prefer steel, just like the OEM hub.

Thanks for the education.

There's nothing wrong or unsafe with running spacers, provided they get torqued down properly. H&R makes great quality hub-centric spacers for our cars. I've used Ichiba and H&R on my 350Z and 370Z, respectively. I must say, H&R's quality is top notch.

[Darwins Child]

To see what a rear looks like on the front, this morning I swapped passenger-side wheels and took some photos. The last two photos are of the front wheel on the rear.

I really liked the idea of a rear on the front, but the reality is that I think the rear wheel on the front pokes out too far. I think road debris is going to get flung up onto the side of the vehicle. I hope anybody who runs rears on the front will chime in with their experience with this potential issue.

However, I also noticed that the side-wall of the tire bulges out beyond the outermost side of the wheel by at least 1/2", probably more like 3/4". If that bulge were not there, it is possible that a rear on the front would be barely acceptable, but I'd have to be convinced before taking that chance.

Although some people find the notion of fronts on the rear of a Z objectionable, if I want to have 4 identical wheels and tires, they are going to have to be either four OEM fronts or, alternatively, aftermarket wheels that are somewhat wider than the OEM front and somewhat narrower than the OEM rear. But I haven't seen an aftermarket wheel that looks as beautiful as our present Rays on a Z. Aesthetically, they make a perfect marriage, IMO.

If I decide to go 4 OEM sport fronts, I'll most likely buy spacers for the rears that are thick enough to bring the outer edge of the wheel to where the OEM rear normally is.

There's a good chance that I'll leave things exactly as they are and when the OEM tires inevitably wear out, get two different sized Michelin Pilot A/S 3" tires and just rotate side to side.

Speaking of rotation, this morning I was surprised to notice the word "outside" on our vehicle's OEM Bridgestone Potenza RE050A tires. For some reason I had assumed that the OEM tires were directional, but I assume that "outside" means that these tires can be swapped side-to-side without removing tires from wheels, which is a very good thing. In the spring I'll be lifting the vehicle again to do a side-to-side swap of front and rear tires, so please tell me if they are indeed directional.

Thanks.

[Darwins Child]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

oh my god. Reading that exchange made my head hurt. We're reduced to putting front wheels on the rear of the Z?

What is the goal here?

I mean, you're putting all seasons to get through the snow season, just slap them on your existing wheels.

Stock suspension, all season tires, oem wheels . . . lets just throw looks out of the equation and go with cheap and practical (as can be for driving a Z in the snow)

I guess I wasn't clear enough. The goal is not to drive in snow during the winter months (although it would be nice to be able to take our summer-only toy out of storage for a winter emergency), but to be able to do so in other months if snow should unexpectedly happen, and, more importantly, to be able to operate in cold, wet weather during Edmonton's few "summer" months.

Not only that, but I'd like to be able to rotate wheels / tires however I wish without having to remove tires from wheels, and this means having all four wheels the same.

The more I learn about this, the more I think those wheels can / should be all rears rather than fronts, but I'm far from certain about that. At this point I'd like to be able to get away with simply buying two rears for the front and not installing spacers anywhere. But maybe there are good handling reasons not to do this, rather than aesthetic.