That sucks cause they probably could have made more power by phasing the exhaust cams instead of the intake by holding in more compression in the lower rpms (advancing the cam) and blowing more compression out on the top end (retarding the cam) giving alot wider power band with more average horsepower and torque gains. BTW you cant adjust lift because thats grinded into the cam and will always be static. Only way to gain lift is to change rocker arms on a pushrod engine. Also lift really dont make a crap anyways the things that matter most are duration and lobe seperation aka centerline. Basically the only thing the vvel does is act as an automated computer controlled cam timing gear which will only change your power band. So this being said the vvel can only give you what your stock cam can provide on both the low and top end which is a very nice thing to have, but dont expect much from someone cracking the vvel. The down side is that if someone trying to tune the vvel that does not have much experience and does not know the limitations will run a great risk of running into piston to valve clearance problems especially with aftermarket camshafts.

My interpretation of UpRev's statement is this: the ECU is pretty smart and already has full control of the available range of the stock VVEL cams, and makes good use of it when the MAF, Fuel, etc tables are set up properly for the application (intake/exhaust config, FI, etc). Therefore "cracking" VVEL probably doesn't actually allow you to gain more power through ECU tuning alone, seeing as it's already an optimally self-tuning system in realtime. But you might be able to get some gains by having a new physical VVEL cam shape/range and the ability to reprogram the relevant ECU tables to take advantage of it.

Most likely this (the capability of our ECU to self-tune VVEL to conditions) is why the car is so mod-friendly to begin with. Remember even before UpRev was available, these cars always posted unbelievably amazing gains from bolt-on exhaust and intake mods, so much that people thought others were lying about their results in the early days.

IMHO, it would probably still be nice if they put tune-ability of the tables into their product for the stock cams. It might not get you any peak dyno gain, but I bet it could open up optimization tweaks for drivability and throttle character.

You do know what VVEL stands for, right? "Variable Valve Event and Lift. It does a lot more than a lot more than a cam timing gear.

It does change lift and duration.
http://i.imgur.com/WiIV1.jpg

Oh and also the phasing is adjustable too, but that's technically the "IVT" system and not VVEL.

^The above info makes sense to me

I'm very familiar with Honda's I-VTEC system, the VVEL approach seems to have a much more limited scope in terms of adjustment.

what planet are you from??? :)

Exactly.

But, then again, if it really can self-correct both lift and overlap that much, then fair enough, but I have to say it is a little surprising.

Just a quick query, Is the black trace the full physical limit of the system and the red tace the Computer controlled limit?

So since this is a no go, is anybody up for doing the 4.5L stroker kit with a TT set up?

I'd be very interested to see what an NA 4.5L stoker could do. I think it would just be nice to see what the extra displacement brought to the table.

I think Bullitt is using this in his ongoing 1,000whp build with Sam at GTM.

From what I remember reading somewhere about this is that it will help more on the F/I aspect vs N/A. I might just do it since the price has dropped on it a little but I might just go ahead and do the TT set up with it as well.

Any idea where you read it? I'm not calling you a liar or anything, I would actually just like to read it too. There isn't a whole ton of information on stroker kits for our cars. I think part of it will depend on what kind of compression ratio you end up running with the pistons, but I'm no expert. It would be fun to see the look on peoples faces when you tell them you have a 4.5L engine and then tell them that it's a V6.

I decided a while back that if ever end up dumping loads of money into my car I want to do an NA stroker first and then add some type of forced induction later down the road. And while it's cool to be the guinea pig and do something first, it's always nice to see the results from someone else before you drop that much cash.

Doing an NA build, then going FI makes no sense. You are going to build the motor differently.

I do not understand the desire to run a huge v6 either. I would not want to be dealing with a massive, unbalanced engine, but that's just me.

Whats the Bore to stroke ratio like at 4.5L??

My understanding on the black-vs-red limits is this: if you crack open the VVEL heads, there's an adjustment that can be made in there. In the service manual it's noted as a VVEL "adjustment bolt". It's supposed to be a fine-tune adjustment done at the factory to set things "correctly", and you're never allowed to loosen it or touch it. They even say with a straight face in the SM, basically, "if you ever loosen this bolt, you must replace the entire VVEL assembly with a factory new one". But you could ignore the factory adjust specs and crank this adjustment out to the maximum limit it allows, which produces the larger black profile. God only knows if the ECU deals with it very well or not, or if it causes damage, etc. You'd have to ask someone who's actually done it.