Experienced Haltech but New to UpRev

serturbo

My Z is bone stock, which is why I'm asking what AFRs everyone else is seeing. Are your numbers from a dyno wideband or from the OBDII port?

Megan370z

that number was from my own Wideband

serturbo

I need to check my numbers with numbers I get from other vehicles. My 08 Pathfinder V8 shows me similar AFR numbers. Mid to low 14s during low load conditions and 17s during WOT. On the Pathfinder, I even checked the raw voltage readings from the factory wideband with the corresponding AFR numbers and they check out with the graph in the factory service manual. It's driving me nuts.

Unclemeaty

With those numbers, I'd strongly suggest you dont go by what your WB sensor is telling you. 17s should only been seen under mild deceleration or perhaps on emission systems with air being injected after the engine but upstream from the O2 and Cats. Even a narrow band O2 sensor should not read that lean. 17s is almost lean enough for missfires let along detonation.

I say get your O2 sensor fixed, replaced, or calibrated. Dont try to tune with it.

In Stock form without any problems; running strong and not tuned or anything, your 370z should be reading around 11.75 to 12 AFR at WOT. Your other vehicles should be somewhere between 12 and 14ish I supose.

serturbo

Yeah, i wasn't planning on tuning with it. I was just wondering why I was getting funky readings. After all, the numbers I can get with my DashDyno are the same numbers Cipher is logging for UpRev's e-tunes.

Megan370z

thats because both programs are using the same sensor

serturbo

I didn't make myself clear. I'm thinking that my AFRs at WOT are wrong, so that means UpRev would be using this bad data to do a custom e-tune for me if I bought Osiris. Assuming my car is running correctly and not actually at AFR=17+ (as indicated by the OBDII port) at WOT, UpRev would increase the amount of fuel at WOT to help get AFR as indicated by OBDII data to a safer 12.5. Wouldn't this make the car super rich?

Unclemeaty

I would think that if the ECu sees 17:1 at WOT it would probably throw a check engine light for not being able to hit the targets by ~5 points. What device are you seeing the 17:1 AFR through again? Are you seeing 17 in the UpRev datalogs?

If your WB sensor isnt working right then it would likely be imposible for anybody to give you a good E-Tune.

I think your setup is bad. Also, UpRev would not likely tune against your external sensor unless you ask them to. They'd tune based on what the Cipher datalogs show.

Unclemeaty

Getting back to DYI UpRev tuning,

Does anybody know what the Ignition map numbers actually mean? I know it is a temperature at a point ATDC, but like what? 10s or 100s of degrees F or C?

serturbo

I have a DashDyno by Auterra.
OBD II Scan Tool, Performance Meter & Data Logger | Auterra

Unclemeaty

*TIP* Press the 'spacebar' when in real-time tuning to get your 'ghost' tracer going; similar to an Apexi PowerFC standalone. its a quick way to data-observe what values the ECU was hitting during short operation.

So far its going pretty well for self-street tuning. The first thing I found (also mildly documented in Osiris User Guide) was that the ecu was running just barely off the right side of the ignition timing map. I'm sure that when this happens the ECU just provides the last row/column values as thats what most ECUs/standalone's do. The problem with that is you lose precise control of what the ECU is doing at the given engine demand. The ignition map axis peaks at 19.97, but after a few datalogs and traces I found the scheduled fuel was hitting about 3/4 a point higher (About 20.8ish) . The adjustment for this is a little un-obvious because the setting is actually under the fuel table static settings. Raising the value from 19.97 to 21 not only adjusted the Ignition table axis, it allowed the ECU to stay on the target values. I doubt this created any performance gain.

Im not an idiot, but I cant seem to understand why the A/F Correction figures are seemingly not working as I would have expected them to on this setup. At idle and low throttle, I see the correction vary from ~85-105... As soon as I got any higher than about 1/2 throttle the correction stays flat at 100 and does not change at all. Unfortunately this means I cannot tell if the ECU is adding or subtracting fuel out from the main fuel maps; and I seriously doubt that it's so perfectly configured from the factory that it doesnt need closed loop to hit the A/F targets. I also changed the A/F targets to suit. Does anybody see this on their setup?

xsnapshot

^thats weird. What exactly do 85-105 mean? Like is 100, a fueling situation where the ECU doesn't have to add/subtract fuel? Then 85% would be akin to taking away 15% fuel?

If the ECU is going into open loop fueling, then your right. You won't be able to see any correction being applied by the ECU. You'd have to compare the AFR called for, to AFR seen on the logs. Can you tell if the fueling correction stops at a specific g/s value (which might indicated a different airflow correction range being encountered) or a general throttle position/RPM area? (which might mean that you've reached the CL/OL threshold)

Man I can't wait to get my Z. Thanks for posting up self-tuning info meaty. It'd be nice to make this thread a resource for other self-tuners.

windex

So I finally got the Osiris tuner and I'm completely new to tuning so I'm looking for some advice. Based on some runs from last night my AFR is way too rich. Any suggestions on where i can find some tuning material?

Attached Images

Run Graph.PNG (47.6 KB, 46 views)

Unclemeaty

I believe both to be the case.



Windex, I see you are scheduling +-22 at that AFR. Do you have any modifications? What degrees of timing are you logging from ~5000-7500 rpms? Perhaps you want to take a look at your ignition map to see if the ECU is running off bounds.

If you wish you can begin modifying the A/F by setting your request in the fuel target maps. The stock map if I recall is looking for ~11.2:1 at WOT. As with the last few posts, I'm still debating weather or not the ECU operates in open loop at wot (looks to be the case). In which case you'll have to adjust the main fuel consumption maps. It is probably best to real-time tune using Cipher with a friend driving and 'spacebar' activated, or by yourself using Cipher datalogging compairing targets vs actual A/F. Tuning with a friend is much faster, easier, and more fun.

Has anybody come up with their own modest settings for ignition timing? I've got my car (stock) running about 27ish BTDC at high rpm wot. I've moved the timing up a little in most areas with decent effect, but its not really safe to do this without feedback.

The main thing/problem I see is there doesnt appear to be any way to monitor the engine's knock sensor with UpRev - which should only be used as a guide not a tuning point. I'd like to be at least several degrees away from a knock situation. I'm thinking of building something external which will observe engine knock such as a mic/meter or headphone equipment. There are companies which sell this type of thing, but I find UpRev has a basic schematic design in some of UpRev's user guides. I also fix high-powered car audio amplifiers and electronics so I might build something out of the following since I already have one of these.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062620



This is a battery powered amplifier used mainly for audio diagnostics. The purpose of this device is that it has a gain control that is absolutely rediculous (0.01v minimum gain which is absurdly inaudible through most amplifiers. This device will amplify 0.01v enough to blow it's own speaker out) which in term can amplifier even the faintest of signals to a blaring annoyance. The device itself is a valuble tool for my amplifier repair, and I'm thinking it might just be the trick for getting knocks to an amplifier/audible state for tuning.

I may be able to just tap this into the knock sensor and then wire it to inside of my car, but I'll need to observe the waveform of engine knock on my o-scope before I make something like this. This would come in handy even for dyno tuners.

windex

That log was taken before I even put the base uprev file on my ecu.