Ferrari's €2.5m damage bill highlights F1 cost cap problem
By: Jonathan Noble
Aug 12, 2021, 4:42 AM
Ferrari says a 2.5 million euro damage bill so far this season shows why Formula 1 needs a potential rethink about cost cap limits.

F1’s top teams have faced a big headache this year trying to cut back their spending to get below the $145 million cost cap limit that has been introduced.

Both Mercedes and Red Bull talked about the pain they had to go through over the winter to lay off staff that they could no longer afford to keep.

But as the season has worn on, there has been further concern about the complications that outfits are facing when it comes to paying out for unexpected damage.

Valtteri Bottas’ crash at Imola prompted Mercedes to fear it would have to cut back on development updates, while Red Bull was unhappy about a $1.8 million repair bill it faced from Max Verstappen’s accident at the British Grand Prix.

Ferrari team principal Mattia Binotto suggested after the Hungarian GP, when Charles Leclerc was taken out by Lance Stroll at the first corner, that rivals whose drivers are guilty of causing crash should pay for any damage caused.

But while not all teams are in agreement that such a scenario is realistic, Binotto thinks there are justifiable grounds for at least teams and F1’s chiefs to get together and talk about it.

He says that an inspection of bills from the first half of 2021 shows Ferrari has faced paying out 2.5 million euros ($3 million) for damage – which shows the kind of leeway that has to be built into budgets nowadays for unexpected events.

“These are overall damages, and sometimes we can damage ourselves, so these are not [just] other teams that damage ourselves,” explained Binotto.


“Now, obviously, there's been a lot of discussions that if there is a crash and there is a guilty driver, and you're not faulty, and if you have been damaged, then should that be exempt from the budget cap?

“I think it's certainly an important point because the reason why I mentioned 2.5m euros is to show that overall the damage can be significant. So should we consider a different type of regulation in those cases?

“I think certainly there is merit for it. I think that certainly there are no obvious solutions, but it is something that no doubt we will discuss with the FIA, F1 and teams in the coming weeks, possibly to address it, to see if there is any solution for the future.”

Beyond the damage cost, there is also a fresh debate about whether teams should face exemptions from grid penalties if they suffer engine damage as the result of another drivers’ actions and are forced to take a fresh power unit.

Leclerc lost his second power unit of the year after he was swiped by the out-of-control Stroll at the first corner of the Hungarian Grand Prix.

Binotto thinks there are grounds to discuss a potential change here too, even though it would be very complicated to sort out.

“There is no obvious solution,” he said. “If we damage an engine, as in our case like in Hungary, it was an engine that still had its intended usage but was not new.

“By replacing it, you fit something new so you don’t do it with something of equal mileage and the same lifespan. So it’s complicated.

“There is talk of a further reduction in 2025, of moving from three engines to two [per season] so it is clear that the fewer engines there are, the more important the issue becomes.

“We will discuss with all the other teams, and with the FIA, because this is certainly a current issue, brought to light from several sources, and therefore it deserves to be explored. But I don't think there is an easy solution.”

They didn't think of this when they all agreed to the cap last year?
It's racing. Stuff happens. Always has, and always will.
Crashes are part of the sport.

I think this year it's a sensitive issue, as they are developing a new car to new rules, along with tweaking this year's car to tire changes, etc.
And paying for all their operations, still during a pandemic.
The cap is $145 million this year.

This cost factor cannot be news to the teams....sniff sniff - you agreed, deal with it!

Vettel's DSQ stands
 

Vettel’s disqualification stands as Aston Martin drop appeal bid
2021 Hungarian Grand PrixPosted on
12th August 2021, 14:50 | Written by Keith Collantine

Aston Martin has abandoned its effort to overturn Sebastian Vettel’s disqualification from the Hungarian Grand Prix.

Vettel lost his second place finish in the race after the team were unable to supply a one-litre sample of fuel as required by the rules. Only 300ml was obtained from the Aston Martin.
The team initially submitted a request for a review of the decision and reserved the right to an appeal. However after considering a submission from Aston Martin the FIA rejected its call for a review.

Aston Martin originally claimed Vettel’s car had contained more than the 300ml extracted by the stewards. However on further examination the team discovered an error in the fuel system meant there was less fuel onboard than they realised.

The team responded to the FIA’s decision by stating it would consider whether to take its appeal further. It has now confirmed it will not proceed.

They can hang on to that sentimental win.

Plus that F1 Champions history trivia thing is a bigger win than some dumb old rigged race. Hamilton may have won the race, but Seb literally remembers much more wins in the universe get rekt loois.

The win was never threatened by Aston Martin's appeal. The race was won by Esteban Ocon driving for Alpine. Vettel finished in 2nd place. With his DSQ upheld, everyone below moved up a spot.

Of course read as Toto. :rofl2:

Pretty sure he meant 2nd place finish was a victory for Aston Martin :twocents:

You mean like, second winner? Or first loser? :rofl2:

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/th...ggles/6646407/

The science involved in F1's tyre durability struggles
By:
GP Racing
Aug 13, 2021, 12:05 PM
It’s fashionable among teams to knock the products offered by Formula 1’s sole tyre supplier, especially after the failures earlier in the season. But, as PAT SYMONDS explains, there are a number of unscientific myths behind these complaints against Pirelli--


The high-speed accidents experienced by Max Verstappen and Lance Stroll in the Azerbaijan Grand Prix once again raised the subject of tyre durability. The somewhat obscure nature of the press release issued by Pirelli after its analysis of the failed tyres led to some rather ill-informed comments in various publications, so it’s worthwhile trying to understand both the nature of the failures and why the case was effectively closed as ‘unproven’.

To fully comprehend the problem, we need to understand a few different facts about tyres and basic mechanical engineering. First and foremost
 is to know how a tyre is constructed and how 
it carries load. Of course, a tyre contains a lot
 of rubber and other polymers but the real load-carrying capacity of a tyre is governed by 
the materials used to reinforce the rubber.

These materials and how they are arranged are known as the ‘construction’ of the tyre. The particular mix of the rubber is known as the ‘compound’. Here we can lay one of the first myths to bed.

When, in a racing tyre, we refer to the compound we are actually referring to the tread compound. This is varied from circuit to circuit and between the hard, medium and soft compounds that we have all become familiar with. In current Pirelli speak, they are termed C1 to C5 – with C5 being the softest compound.

What is generally not appreciated is that these various tread compounds are wrapped onto the tread portion of a tyre, the main part of which is built from the same compound of rubber irrespective of what is used for the tread.

The notion, therefore, (and often written) that a soft compound is more prone to failure than a hard compound is incorrect. The tread compound of the tyre plays a very small part in the load capacity of the tyre.

Examining the construction in more detail, the rubber is reinforced in the sidewall, shoulder and belt areas with a number of different materials. These can be nylon, steel or – more usually in a racing tyre – an aramid fibre known as Kevlar. Kevlar is a very strong, lightweight fibre used extensively in crash structures, military and aerospace applications, and even bullet-proof vests.

The next thing we need to understand is how materials behave when they are subjected to load. I’m sure everyone knows that if you apply a load to a material it stretches as the load increases and then, when it reaches what is known as its ultimate tensile strength, it breaks.

What is less commonly known is that if you repeatedly stress something at a lower load it can also break. This is known as fatigue failure, and different materials behave in different ways.

With steel for example, providing you keep the load to a low level of around 50% of the ultimate tensile strength, it will survive any number of cycles. Aluminium is different in that if it is subjected to a cyclic load, it will eventually fail almost irrespective of the magnitude of that load.

In both cases the behaviour is non-linear. In other words, while a high load will only be survived for a few cycles and a low load for many cycles, you can’t simply say that a load half way between will lead to a failure in half the time – it will in fact be much less.

Significant also is the tread depth, as a worn tyre has a lower critical speed due to the lower geometric section properties of the tread decreasing the effective belt stiffness

Kevlar is generally used in applications where its strength is the more important property. In a tyre the fatigue properties can be just as important. The material, when subjected to cyclic load, behaves slightly differently to either steel or aluminium in that, like aluminium, it has a finite fatigue life but the life is also a function of exactly how the fibre interacts with its neighbours
 in a multi-stranded rope or tow.

Most important of all the aspects of tyre durability is the loading condition. Every time a tyre rotates the construction is exercised as it enters and leaves contact with the ground in a process known as de-radialisation. The tyre flattens in the contact patch area, leading to complex loading in the sidewalls and shoulder of the tyre. The tyre designer, knowing the vertical load on the tyre and the speed the car will experience, designs his tyre to cope with this at a given inflation pressure.
Damaged tyre on the car of Max Verstappen, Red Bull Racing RB16B


If the tyre operates outside the expected parameters, for example at a lower pressure, a phenomenon known as standing waves can occur. These are resonant deformations of the sidewall causing extreme loads in the tyre carcass. The knowledge of these is nothing new: an article in Motor Sport magazine in September 1958 mentions the difficulty of avoiding this destructive condition.

What is essential to understand about standing waves is that for a given construction there is a critical speed at which they occur. Below that speed the tyre behaves normally and above that speed huge deformations are seen in the sidewall and shoulder which appear stationary but are in fact moving rapidly. The critical speed is a function of load, camber angle and, most importantly, inflation pressure.

An increased inflation pressure effectively increases the stiffness of the belt, which is the dominant parameter in avoiding standing waves. While the exact values for a Pirelli F1 tyre are not known, typically a 1 psi increase in pressure will raise the critical speed by around 3 to 5km/h on a wide racing tyre.

Significant also is the tread depth, as a worn tyre has a lower critical speed due to the lower geometric section properties of the tread decreasing the effective belt stiffness.

Understanding how critical tyre pressures are leads one to ask why the running pressures are not mandated, rather than the starting pressure. With the advent of 18” wheels next year, calibrated tyre pressure monitoring becomes mandatory which should put paid to problems of relating cold and running tyre pressures, something which should be easy but, due to imperfections such as moisture in the tyre, can actually be extremely difficult.

And yet, starting for Silverstone, Pirelli changed the construction of the 2021 tires yet again, this time particularly in response to the failures.
Dumb article about it here:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/t...tyres/6613964/

And the change has been a big part of Mercedes' return to dominance as the tires seem to work better with their chassis than with the Red Bull.

I hate that the last 3 years of F1 have been mainly a competition as to who can get and keep the tires in their operating window the best, for the longest. That's always a part of racing, but it shouldn't be THE determining factor in almost every race for several seasons.

I think it is one more thing to talk about. RB couldn't make an adjustment in three years that's on them no different than MB and others had to deal with the changes with chassis design this year. I do think there is too much drama around tires. Make the safest tire possible and be done. The teams are going to make complain regardless if they are not fast or the tire fails.

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This^^^^

Pirelli make the tires per the F1 contract. Use them, adapt and make your chassis work. That is a team problem. Just dont tell them that LOL! RB perhaps the whining-ist of all. They forget what its like to win and be a target. Grow up, shut up and compete. Thats for all teams.

But Red Bull did make the chassis work for the first half of this year. That, and whatever power improvements they may have made, paid off for 10 races. Mercedes wasn't the powerhouse that they were in the last two seasons. But for whatever reason (blame the Baku punctures), Pirelli has changed the design and it favours MB again. Not implying that this was intentional, but that is one change that I don't believe can be computer or wind tunnel modelled. And teams are trying to race and develop a whole new car under a cost cap this year.

Saying "make your chassis work" is oversimplifying things. Otherwise, all of the other teams would have been there already last year, with no cost cap to contend with. But nobody other than Mercedes really managed to in over 40 races until this year. IMHO.

The aero rules worked against low rake design. The cost cap and tire issue/redesign were pushed and agree'd by the teams. Yet they will bad mouth all of it lol. It is tiresome. Shut up and compete. Want to win develop now. They know what that means for 22.

I see Mercedes pushing and hoping RedBull throw lots of money to get this 1 title they promised Jos and Max. Its a game. Mercedes are long on the development and have no more updates in development per press yesterday. The real game is who does best next year early on.

For me this title is compromised given new rules next year. Sure Max can win it but its easily spun that real competition was ended due to rules change lol.

:) :happydance:

2019/2020 tires seemed to work against high rake designs like RBR and Ferrari, though.

RB has been chasing ever since the days Vettel. They won four championships and MB was chasing. MB developed a better car along with signing Lewis. RB has been slow to catch up. RB put all their eggs in the Max bucket which caused a riff between the up comer and a proven F1 winner. They lost again when Daniel left. RB problems started a long time ago. The discussion over tires is just a distraction and points out the lack of development and strategy to stay at the tip of the spear by RB. They also made a decision right or wrong to change engine manufacturers which cost them time and money.

I don't believe F1 and the FIA is purposely favoring one team over another otherwise we should all watch WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment).

This is their best chance to stop MB string of championships and for Max to win his first title. They have the superior car and the second best driver in the world and they are still whining about MB. To me it just shows how far behind the 8 ball they are.



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They seem so unfocused in the past years. Make no friends and crap on Renault. They lack any tact or grace. Im happy we have competition but RedBull management are toxic. Max is just as bad being raised by a tool such as Jos. If he wins thats nice.

I think he will have very difficult times to match anyone like MS or LH. He lacks an appeal and any character. Rather boring to be honest he is to me. He is predictable on the track, weaves, uses the full limit but lacks a creative flow overall. He literally will risk the entire car and team's effort in one circumstance vs the larger picture. His lack of tact and the inability to UN-FOCUS on the now hurts him in my book.

His father's influence over him and the team is obvious. Enabled easily by Horner and the idiot Marko. Their efforts after UK GP were world class idiocy. As if no other had ever hit them ever lol. Ricci left for good reason. He has been very public about that BS there after his Baku mess Max caused. The team failed to move Max over and Ricci warned them it would end badly. Yea Max is just amazing.

Frankly - over rated in certain categories - like big picture thinking, maximizing results in the face of issues and maybe talking less and driving more.

I couldn't agree more!

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Japanese F1 GP cancelled due to rising COVID cases
By:
Adam Cooper
Aug 18, 2021, 4:00 AM
Formula 1 has announced that the Japanese Grand Prix has been cancelled at the request of the government due to ongoing COVID-19 issues.
Japanese F1 GP cancelled due to rising COVID cases

The race was due to take place on 10 October, as the third leg of a triple header after Russia and Turkey.

A decision on whether or not the race would go ahead was expected in August after all parties were able to review how the Olympic Games unfolded in Tokyo.

No further updates have been given on possible changes to the 2021 F1 calendar, which is understood to be very flexible at this stage, with various permutations under consideration.

However, F1 has options to keep up the numbers and will provide further news in the coming weeks.

An F1 statement said: “Following ongoing discussions with the promoter and authorities in Japan the decision has been taken by the Japanese government to cancel the race this season due to ongoing complexities of the pandemic in the country.

“Formula 1 is now working on the details of the revised calendar and will announce the final details in the coming weeks. Formula 1 has proven this year, and in 2020, that we can adapt and find solutions to the ongoing uncertainties and is excited by the level of interest from locations to host Formula 1 events this year and beyond.”

Honda also issued a statement expressing its disappointment that the Japanese Grand Prix would not feature in its final season with Red Bull before departing ahead of the 2022 season.

"As Honda, we are particularly disappointed, because this is the final year of our Formula 1 project and we know that so many fans were looking forward to attending the event.

Qatar is one of the new events on standby, while a second race in Bahrain is also a possibility, and if they join Saudi Arabia and Abu Dhabi that would mean four events being run in the Middle East in the last part of season.

One of the big issues is that Turkey, Mexico and Brazil are all currently on the UK red list, and anyone returning within 10 days of being in one of those countries faces a 10-day quarantine in a government-approved hotel.

At the moment F1 does not have an exemption, and thus around 1000 UK-based team, F1, FIA, Pirelli, Honda and media staff members would be impacted by the rule.

The plan was the trip to Japan would take up a week of the 10-day window after Turkey, and that personnel would remain there for a few extra days before returning to the UK.

It’s understood it should not be assumed that Turkey is now in trouble without the buffer of the Japanese GP, so presumably efforts are underway either to re-jig the calendar so that another race falls after Turkey.

F1 hopes to run two races in Austin, with the second under the Texas GP name.

Although the USA is not a red zone for the UK matters have been complicated the city becoming a COVID hot spot, with hospitals reported to be full.

The Suzuka cancellation comes despite F1 promising to impose special conditions on all personnel travelling to Japan, including compulsory use of charter flights from Istanbul with testing on arrival, travel only between hotels and the circuits with no restaurants or shopping, security in each hotel to ensure that people could not leave, and eating only at the circuit in the evenings.

Although I agree with the idea, and especially the colossal incompetence at Red Bull, keep in mind that Max is barely out of diapers really. What is he, 23? You and I were still making bad choices about what courses to take at university at that age. He's responsible for million dollar decisions at 300km/hr, and the face of a huge organization. I think that he has matured tremendously over the past three seasons both as a driver and as an adult. For sure, he is still being manipulated (and probably prevented from seeing "the big picture". I cannot really fault him much for the things he has said. Horner, is another story. And Marko, well, he's off on some other planet altogether.

I think i've mentioned it before, but i'm pretty indifferent to Max. I'd be a hypocrite criticizing his behavior when my favorite drivers where the same way at that age.

I have no respect for Horner and Marko. They've always been twats.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/al...ting-/6650308/

Alpine calls on FIA "to be all over" rival F1 teams collaborating
By: Filip Cleeren
Co-author: Jonathan Noble
Aug 19, 2021, 9:31 AM
Alpine Formula 1 executive director Marcin Budkowski says his team expects the FIA "to be all over" rival teams collaborating on their 2022 car designs.

Last season Racing Point caused a stir when it arrived in winter testing in Barcelona with a car that looked a lot like the Mercedes from 2019, the team it bought a gearbox, power unit and other unlisted parts from.


Its midfield rivals were alarmed about the design of the RP20, with Alpine - then called Renault - leading the charge against the Silverstone outfit by filing protests after the Styrian, Hungarian and British Grands Prix, arguing Racing Point's rear brake ducts were illegally copied from Mercedes.

The protest was upheld, and Racing Point was docked 15 constructors' points and fined €400,000 after Silverstone. Renault initially appealed the decision before drawing a line under the matter.

In the wake of the Racing Point controversy, F1 tightened its rules on reverse engineering, banning the use of 3D cameras and complex software systems to copy rival designs.

But Alpine has called on the FIA to remain vigilant ahead of the massive 2022 regulation changes, which provide a lot of scope for teams to benefit from collaborating with their partner teams.

"Clearly going into 2022, a massive change in regulations, big development slope, lots of performance being gained on these cars, very green fresh set of regulations, the benefits you can get from collaboration, whether it's legal or less so, are massive," Budkowski said.

"And if there's a year where these kinds of collaborations can pay off, it's this year, for 2022.


"So clearly, if there's a year where we expect the FIA to be really all over it, it's this year."

When asked if he was concerned a repeat of the Racing Point saga was possible or if he believed the FIA was now policing the matter sufficiently, Budkowski said it was a "difficult question" but admitted there was some concern.

"I don't know what's going on in other people's factories, and I don't know what level of scrutiny the FIA is putting on this," he explained.

"Us as an independent team, obviously we don't come under scrutiny of sharing anything with our competitors, because it would be against our own interests.

"The Formula 1 I think we'd all like to see is 10 teams or 11, or 12, in the future, that just fight each other mercilessly and are just there for their own sporting success.

"And from the moment that teams have a common interest in exchanging information, that's a problem, because it shouldn't be the case, you shouldn't be helping your competitors.

"So, there's a concern there but I can't say how much, I'm not going to accuse people because effectively I don't know. And I hope that there is nothing happening."

In other words: "We're Alpine. We have no friends who will share with us. So we'll raise a stink if other teams do. Not that we know it's happening but we're paranoid. Which doesn't mean it's not happening,".

It's not Mercedes' fault, or Ferrari's or Honda's, that Cyril lost all of Renault's customer teams. Of course there will be some technology trading. Well, "sales" actually. It won't be as blatant as Tracing Point, but it'll be there. Who honestly believes that Alpha Tauri won't benefit from developments at Red Bull. Or that in order to fit the mechanicals from Mercedes into their own cars, customer teams won't be let in on some of the magic that Merc has come up with.

The FIA needs to understand that their cost cap does not exist in a vacuum, and teams agreed to it based on their own understandings of what they could and could not get away with. Renault/Alpine have to get over themselves, and just develop a very good car for next year. They have done a decent job this far in 2021. Even the engines have been decently reliable for the first time in years.

Progress LOL :)

Ferrari gained less than 0.1 second from extra F1 windtunnel boost
By:
Pablo Elizalde
Co-author:
Jonathan Noble
Aug 20, 2021, 10:11 AM
Ferrari gained less than a tenth of a second from having extra time to develop its 2021 Formula 1 car in the windtunnel, according to team boss Mattia Binotto.

I got nothing. :facepalm:

"Aerodynamics are for those who cannot build engines." (Enzo Ferrari)
- just thought that was appropriate here, LOL

But I am curious to see the engine upgrade package that Ferrari said they were bringing to Spa. They are going to need to take a lot of tenths of a second off at that circuit, if they want to make a meaningful push up the mid-field.

How about this.
Read to the last paragraph, before making up your mind if just speculation.

https://racer.com/2021/08/20/andrett...team-takeover/


The United States could have another team in Formula 1 if the efforts of a former driver prove to be successful.

RACER has learned Andretti Autosport team owner Michael Andretti has been actively pursuing an F1 team to acquire, with multiple sources pointing towards the 1993 McLaren F1 pilot being in discussions with representatives from more than one team, including Haas F1’s Gene Haas.

It’s understood the Haas conversation did not move beyond a basic outreach, which led to Andretti seeking another target in the F1 paddock. After Haas F1, it’s believed the two teams owned by investment firms – Alfa Romeo Sauber, which was sold to Longbow Finance S.A. in 2016, and Williams Grand Prix Engineering, which was bought by Dorilton Capital in 2020 – stand as the best options available for the 1991 CART IndyCar Series champion.

“It would be great, but there’s a long way to go if it were to happen,” Andretti told RACER. “If the right opportunity comes up, we’ll be all over it. But we’re not there yet.”

Haas has the obvious American link, but it has a close partnership with Ferrari, while Williams is a Mercedes customer – something it has in common with Zak Brown’s McLaren. Brown and Andretti are partners in other racing categories, having teamed up in Supercars, Australian GT and Extreme E. Independent of the McLaren CEO, Andretti fields a four-car IndyCar program, a two-car effort in Formula E, a four-car Indy Lights team and has an LMP3 entry in IMSA’s WeatherTech Sports Car Championship.

Alfa Romeo recently extended its title sponsorship in a deal that will have “yearly assessments”, but the F1 team is still run by Sauber Motorsport, based around a less-close partnership with Ferrari than Haas. The location of the Swiss-based team adds a further level of complexity to any deal, but it has an impressive windtunnel facility and a romantic link from Andretti’s point of view, as his father Mario drove for Alfa Romeo in F1 in 1981, as well as two separate stints with Ferrari.

Purchasing an existing F1 team – or at least a stake in one – is a far more economical approach since the signing of the latest Concorde Agreement in 2020 that introduced a $200 million buy-in fee for any new entrants. That fee would be split between the existing teams who would be losing a percentage of revenues as a result, but it had the impact of driving up the value of the 10 teams currently on the grid.

In March, a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission by the new Andretti Acquisitions Corporation was revealed. In the document, AAC declared its goal of taking the company public in order to raise $250 million on the New York Stock Exchange under the symbol WNNR (winner).

Food for thought...

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/58317949

Excellent preview for the remainder of the season

Wish he had used real video instead of the simulation.

And the advice not to hit what you can see kind of goes both ways. He's blaming Verstappen solely, whereas the stewards blamed Lewis. So although he has a valid point from another racer's view, I'm not sure he's running with enough information here.


In other news, Perez will be back with RBR in 2022. Not sure why it took them this long to get here, and haven't seen any word as to whether or not this is a multi year deal, but at least the knives are back in their sheaths for now.

Sounds like there is a bump that has developed at Radillion / Eau Rouge after the two incidents of flooding at Spa this year. That might add some drama, but will probably take away from the speed with which this corner is taken.

I think the biggest thing regardless of who was more at fault more, Max could have back out and gave up the place. He instead was only thinking about the present and risk over reward. He still would have finished no less than third and maybe he would have won. Hamilton would probably received a penalty anyway. Learning moment and I am sure he has been coached plenty.

This weekend is looking to not disappoint!

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Well he and Sergio will need new PU's at some point and take penalties. Not thinking like a champion is Max. If he wins it, its not by smarts at all. He has never driven for a title in F1. He has driven to chase other drivers, odd pole and win. He is learning slow.

At the end of the day Verstappen lost and Hamilton won. I would say Randy was right.

Yep, as some one said he is youg and even though he has matured much he still let's his testosterone override his frontal lobe! Norris leads all the young guns in matured.

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Norris is superb - Take him over Russell. He is carrying Mclaren well!

Agreed!!!

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Not big on how unsafe wet Spa can be, but this sounds exciting. Great QP for George, would've been amazing if he put that Williams at pole, but I'm also for Maximum Verstappen clawing back into the championship battle.

Exciting qualy with the rain. Expect surprises tomorrow yes!!! :)

It's going to be a good one. Especially the start!! :tup: