Although I agree that it was the best race of the year (or maybe more), I cannot see the reverse grid being of much use. The only thing it will do is cause greater havoc at the first corner.

What made this race what it was:
- Lewis got 10 seconds stationary, not 5.
- The drive-through at Monza is longer than most pit lanes (by 4 or 5 seconds).
- The penalty happened on lap 27 of a 53 lap race, which negated all gains from the first half, bunched up the pack, and made the second half essentially a sprint.
- Bottas and Verstappen had obvious issues which drove them out of contention on the day. Ferrari was running a different series from F1 (in a bad way) already.
- The midfield (McLaren, Alpha Tauri and Renault) are all strong at the moment.
- Monza has demands not typical of an F1 track.
- Monza actually has good passing opportunities in several areas.
- The two safety cars meant that some teams had used up their tire choices. Alfa would never have put Kimi out on reds for 26 laps otherwise. That cost the team at least a point.

Given that most of the cars get lapped by the podium-sitters during a race, and the mid field is still in the middle regardless of who is in the front, I don't see what reverse grid would do to liven up the spectacle. It would likely be a dis-incentive for the top and bottom teams to develop their cars. If Haas were to podium because of a trick at the start, would that improve the sport in anyone's eyes?

^^^Agreed! What Sunday showcased was the talent of the midfield. I love Gasley...the kid needs his seat back. He just needed some time to mature so that he can handle the pressure. McClaren will be the team to watch next year when they get Mercedes power plants!

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Gasly might be happy he wasn't in a Red Bull this weekend, considering how poorly they did! ;-)

McLaren - gets Mercedes and a Ricciardo upgrade! Looking forward to that a LOT!

McClaren is going to be tough as Norris is starting to find his rhythm as well.


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And can you imagine the after-party, with Norris and Ricciardo on the same team? They’ve been cracking each other up for a year and a half already!

New PU from Mercedes and those 2 drivers. Soon to be my fave team!! :happydance::driving::tup:

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...onza-fightback

Mercedes Formula 1 chief Toto Wolff acknowledged the FIA's ban on engine mode changes hindered both Lewis Hamilton and Valtteri Bottas' fightback drives at the Italian Grand Prix.

Italy marked the first grand prix since the FIA issued a technical directive banning engine mode setting changes in qualifying and the race, forcing drivers to remain in the same power setting throughout the weekend.

The ruling had zero impact on Mercedes' qualifying pace as it romped to a front row lock-out, but hit hard in the race when both Hamilton and Bottas suffered setbacks.

A poor start followed by some car-related struggles meant Bottas could only finish fifth, while early leader Hamilton fought back to seventh after receiving a stop/go penalty that dropped him to the rear of the pack.

Whereas both drivers could have previously turned up their engines at select moments to try overtakes, they were forced to remain in the same setting throughout, hindering their fightback.

"We always said that, you create one power mode for the whole race means that you haven't got the extra spice to overtake," Wolff said.

"You haven't got the extra modes that you may decide or not to deploy in the race to overtake, and that is valid for all the small teams as for the big teams.

"I think that the race is a consequence of that decision."

Wolff praised Hamilton for his "really good" recovery drive despite the engine mode technical directive after the six-time world champion fought back from 17th to seventh.

"It is difficult to overtake in Monza, because with this TD on engine modes, you can't just turn it up for the overtakes and you can't turn it up either to defend," Wolff said.

"Even more the drive is very good to recover to P7. But obviously it's a lost race for him and the team, and this sentiment prevails."

Hamilton said that the ruling would lead to a general lack of overtaking at races, similar to what was seen at Monza.

"It's worse for racing in the sense that in the past you could move between modes and you had to manage the small amount of strong race engine mode, because you only have a certain quota," he said.

"It was more fun to have to manage with that and manage the power and utilise it for overtaking.

"That's probably why you see less overtaking than perhaps in the past."

Bottas reported an issue on his car in the opening stages of the race that meant he struggled through right-hand corners, leaving him unable to get close to cars ahead.

The Finn crossed the line fifth after spending the second half of the race stuck behind Lando Norris, but said the engine mode change ban played a role in stunting his fightback.

"It could be slightly part of the new regulations that everyone is just running constant mode in terms of trying to save and attack, so maybe there's less overtaking because of that," Bottas said.

"But even in Monza, the DRS effect is quite a bit smaller because the wing is smaller, and you have less drag anyway.

"For me the core issue was trying to get close to the cars, enough to try and overtake and get like a massive tow. But it definitely felt pretty impossible to overtake any car that I was battling."

Difficult to pass at Monza? Well, when cars are equally fast, perhaps, but there seem to be lots of opportunities in a lap. And almost every car on every proved that.

I think Merc hedged their bets Sunday, tuning Hamilton’s engine up to make up for lost party mode and Bottas’ down to avoid failure. Guess they have some work ahead of them.

Perez out and Vettel in at Racing Point/Aston Martin just seems all wrong to me....
Just my gut....
:eek:

It is an upgrade. I am excited for Vettel and would like to see AM RP beat the 5h!t out of Ferrari. Perez seemed off in the last couple of races and think that's when serious conversations began taking place. Can't blame the senior Stroll for keeping things in the family.

Agree.

Now, on the other hand, if Lewis came knocking on Lawrence Stroll's door...
:yum:

(not likely, but would be a fun team, with a Merc copy and power).

What's this I hear that Ferrari will be allowed to upgrade their PU for 2021 when all engine development had been frozen?

EDIT: Anyone here believe that the timing of the Vettel announcement just ahead of Ferrari's 1000th GP at their home track in Mugello, was mere coincidence???

:rofl2:

All part of the show.

Very wrong. Some sources are saying in actuality Perez is the better racer right now vs Vettel. Consistent, fast and solid. Vettel is so hit and miss so to speak. This will be the Theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee story for next year yes???

Of the two drivers Stroll should be out his seat. Nikko Holcomberge out drove him lol!

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Interesting race today, same outcome, but the back of the pack sure like to crash
2 - red flags
3 - standing starts
1 - rolling start that was a wreck feast at back of the gird.

Believe HAAS has the slowest car now....

Bottas, got a great start on the first start, but safety car took that away....
Never did as good on next two starts....

Albon finished 3rd....

really have to watch the race ------

Race of the year it was lol :)

Albon saved his job..........

As a Ferrari *driver* fan, I can only be glad my homeboys LeClerc and Vettel finished the race lmao.

LeClerc was doing all he could to delay in the inevitable through the second red flag.

Watch the 1000th Ferrari race celebration on you tube. No love for Seb.

I never thought this race was going to end. :facepalm:

Three sprint races in one afternoon actually beats the 53-lap format, IMHO. :-)

ok, been reading about that re-start and all the blame and who should have done what. But I blame it on Bottas, yea I know he is allow to control the pace, but what he did was not smart. He was worried about Hamilton getting the draft on him. Well it did not work out, because of what happen in the back. Hamilton got him on the standing start.

Not sure on this one, can the teams at least tell the drivers what is going on on a restart, or is that some silly thing about not letting the drivers drive.

Remember that they did have a green light to start going, and being that far back, you probably cannot see what is going up front.

Also Indycar has had a couple of problems this year with rolling starts too, so it is not just F1..

At least there was a 5 on the car.

Clearly the crew chiefs have been too busy directing the choreography this season.

At Mercedes, they would have been able to figure out the problem. You won't see the same issue twice. Common Red Bull. Get this Max Verstappen reliability issue figured out.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/martin...n-reliability/

Bottas was not smart on any of the starts in that race - standing or rolling. But he's not responsible for the cars behind him, other than to obey the rules (cannot speed up after the green, and then slow down again). What he did was not wrong (at least I've seen no official investigation or sanction, and goodness knows they've looked at that one many times). I think that Chico and Antonio are really to blame. Kimi was smart and avoided it all, but those kinds of smarts come from experience.

Don't know if the pre-start is subject to the same radio rules as a formation lap - was wondering that also. And the announcers kept saying that Bottas had to wait until he crossed the line to get going - I'm not familiar enough with the rules to know the details. If true, then the guys at the back really had no business speeding up that early.

He took the lead on 1st standing start..........................

Yeah, but gave it up before the first corner - why did he stay on the right side of the track when he was ahead of Hamilton on his left, going into T1 (right hander)??? Unless he was instructed by the team to do so.
Maybe he was trying to prevent a tow, but that was a rookie move that cost him the race.

I think he really didn't have a chance because Hamilton was in his slip stream so quickly any move would have cost them both the race.

Hamilton seems to get a lot of backhanded credit by folks down playing others talent or lack of a competitive car. Everyone forgets even when he made the move Mercedes that their car was not the superior car on the circuit at that time and he still gave Red Bull and Vettel more than they could handle.

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The very first start was all Bottas from P2. The first safety car and then the second start cost him. LH fell back at the very beginning unless I am not correct.

well Hamilton was not 1st, he did an opps and the team did an opps. That is only because the first opps, I did not get a clear indication of who was at fought, the 2nd opps was the team.. (practice start violations)

with Hamilton on red and the 10 second penalty, just made it a bit interesting.... Max, finished 2nd, with do effort and Bottas won...

notes: Albon, had quite a day, did end in 10th,
Stroll got punted, by leclar
first lap mess and then a SC...

Mid-field was good, but up front, same old same old....

Stroll will get an education if he doesnt understand what happend with Charles today. Here is Lance' quote "I gave him all the room I could. It was unlucky but he could’ve avoided it. He didn’t have to run so wide into me."

Yes son - when Vettel does the same or Max does - GROW UP. He is so not cut out for real F1. He does touring laps not racing LOL

LH is ridiculous in his reaction to the penalties. He is a professional and SHOULD KNOW THE RULES COLD. Its what you are gettting PAID for.

:iagree::iagree:

Agree, but the team told him on the practice start it was ok.. Its how you read the rules, to get an advantage.... Not defending LH, but he did ask....

Note: License points have been removed and team fined 25,000

They share the blame for this incident. Preventable it was lol :)

A couple of items

1) from a comment from Leclerc and Stroll incident
When asked about the incident, Leclerc said it was the result of dirty air from Stroll’s team-mate Sergio Perez, who was running right ahead of the pair in sixth place.

“I tried to go inside Lance at Turn 4 and then in the middle of the corner Perez took the apex and when I was behind him I understeered quite a bit and then we made contact with Lance,” Leclerc said.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/strol...caped-penalty/

2) Hamilton's, practice start, I cannot fine a video/Picture of it again, but I believe when you look at in detail, you will notice like it was done before. There are black tire marks there, that suggest either a F2 or F1 car had done it before Hamilton...

just notes and observations

When you look at the in-car from Stroll, he wasn't even headed outside of the red and white curb, there was still a couple feet of green, and then the sausage. He had at least half a car-width to the left of him that he could have used in order to avoid the Ferrari. On the first lap, everyone is pushing beyond their tires' capabilities. Doubt that this corner was fast enough for much aero and Charles was using the tow as much as not getting the downforce in dirty air - he was understeering for sure, and he could have probably backed out of the throttle to get out of that. They both played a part. Calling it a racing incident was fair IMO.

I agree, just found it interesting.....

Seems you speak "Canadian". I know people who can get you in touch with Stroll. Would you like to make sure he see's your post! :)

Uh-oh! I don't think his father got his money the old fashioned way (inheriting it) the way he will. And Quebec (the province they are from) is famous for its underworld and organized crime. So, maybe I should go back and edit??? :rofl2:

I like Lance - think he has some maturing to do as an F1 driver, but definitely feel that he has earned his place in that company. Yes, he bought his way onto the grid with Williams and then the family purchased Force India, but I believe he deserves to be there now. The other Canadian, Latifi, I'm not certain about yet. But I am sure that I'd love a coaching session with either one of them!

Now, if you could arrange to get me a private day running on the track that his father owns (Mont Tremblant in Quebec), then I'm up for that! :tup:

found this interesting and it gave me a laugh

HAMILTON PAID FOR A ‘SIMPLE ERROR’ – SO WHY DIDN’T LECLERC?
https://the-race.com/formula-1/hamil...didnt-leclerc/

All I want is an exciting / entertaining race to watch.... without all the drama..
:icon17:

just for your enjoyment.....

Yup, sucks when the penalties and the controversy surrounding them are the most exciting part about the race weekend anymore!