Subaru powered Toyota FT-86 Concept

b1adesofcha0s · 06-01-2012, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedfreek

I hear you shadoquad. I am not hating on the BRZ/FRS. I generally like the look of them. The first white one sold here is at the speaker shop in town already getting work done straight from the show room floor. I would like to drive one to see what all the hype is about. Unfortunately they are all sold when they reach the dealer and no chance of test driving unless you order one and put down a deposit. At least that is the way it is around here.

Hennessey Venom GT = Lotus on steroids...lots of steroids!

And those steroids it took were also on steroids

Spikuh · 06-01-2012, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vo2max99

The point I've been making is that it's ridiculous to ASSUME one way or the other that the BRZ / FR-S are somehow "over priced" and or "under powered" based one what is known.

If most reviews said the BRZ / FR-S were a POS / Too slow, etc there might be a bases for that sort of opinion. However, seeing as this is NOT the case there's no bases to ASSUME the car is somehow not worth the price.

It's dumb enough to judge a car having never driven it but to dis it when the reviews have been so overwhelmingly positive it makes absolutely no sense. It's pretty simple stuff.

When a car "s" and deemed to be phenomenal by most accounts it just doesn't make much sense to conclude (without driving nonetheless) that the car "s" will somehow / someway not be worth it / over priced, etc.

If you have been making you point this whole time, then why do you keep insisting on posting it? Either you are not making your point (hence the need to continue spamming it), you do not feel like your point is getting across (which contradicts what you are saying in the above quote), or you are making your point and cannot accept that others have differing viewpoints.

You assume I am missing your point. I am not. You said it very plainly here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by vo2max99

The point is many folks put entirely too much emphasis on the #'s without understanding the values of a light weight, rear-wheel drive, modest power, and well-tuned chassis.

If I did not understand your point, I would not know what to look for when scrolling back through your posts... Ultimately people pick and chose which cars to look at or buy based on some given criteria. That criteria is different for each person. Take myself as an example. I like the BRZ alot. However, for the pricepoint I do feel it is underpowered. I am not some clueless fanboi. If I were, I would despise the BRZ on principle because I come from a 240sx and are a huge fan of the Silvia line. That said, if a new Silvia were on the showroom floor right now, today, with 200hp and 2800lbs at $27k, I would be equally upset with Nissan. If it were sporting 250hp-260hp on turbocharged motor at that price point, I would be all over that car. Same with the BRZ. But it doesn't. That is my opinion on the matter. That is how I view the car. Doesn't make the BRZ a bad vehicle, it simply does not match what I want out a vehicle at that price point.

My point, that you CHOOSING TO IGNORE is:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikuh

People have different opinions than you.

Accept it and move on instead rehashing your same point and throwing in inflamatory language to make yourself feel better and choosing certain phrasing to make yourself feel superior like all of this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by vo2max99

Yeah judging a cars worth based on its test track #'s / HP doesn't make much sense unless you buy daily drivers to race them for a living.

If the BRZ / FR-S are as good as the vast majority have reported there's no good reason to think 27-29k would somehow make them over priced.

I personally think it makes a lot more sense to base a cars worth on how it feels from behind the wheel vs. the #'s it happens to produce.

Plenty of cars produce far better #'s than the MX-5 for instance but few are nearly as fun to drive. This is probably going to be the case with the BRZ / FR-S as well.

Bottom line is that to conclude that the BRZ / FR-S are somehow too little car for the money isn't even coherent.

Before I were to decide one way or another I would have to personally drive the car myself. I'm not talking just around the block and back but really drive it.

I would never check off a car and or deem it "too expensive" simply because it's test track #'s weren't as good as some other's because test track #'s don't even begin to scratch the surface when it comes to evaluating how good a sports car is.

Oh as far as re sale value the BRZ / FR-S are expected to hold they value very well so that's another plus. I'm probably going to get a new MX-5 by around August though because nothing beats a convertible on a nice sunny day. That and text book old school RWD dynamics.

Which forces me to reach no other conclusion than you are bludgeoning people over the head with your opinion and deriding them for having their own opinion which is a piss poor way of trying to convince others to see it your way. Also found here in a response to shado:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikuh

I agree 100%. However, bludgeoning people over the head with your opinion and deriding them for having their own opinion (especially when both sides are on equal footing - i.e. never driven said car) is a piss poor way of trying to convince others to see it your way.

So as you can see, my hope:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikuh

This is the exact thing I am hoping vo reads and figures out. Hasn't happened yet...

Has indeed not happened yet. The fact that you chose to respond to this particular quote gives me a chuckle.

[EDIT]Also, I am washing my hands of this conversation. If you cannot figure it out now, I can at least stop wasting my time.

Sibze · 06-01-2012, 09:48 AM

This thread is going to get locked and raped in the back of the closet

b1adesofcha0s · 06-01-2012, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spikuh

If you have been making you point this whole time, then why do you keep insisting on posting it? Either you are not making your point (hence the need to continue spamming it), you do not feel like your point is getting across (which contradicts what you are saying in the above quote), or you are making your point and cannot accept that others have differing viewpoints.

You assume I am missing your point. I am not. You said it very plainly here:

If I did not understand your point, I would not know what to look for when scrolling back through your posts... Ultimately people pick and chose which cars to look at or buy based on some given criteria. That criteria is different for each person. Take myself as an example. I like the BRZ alot. However, for the pricepoint I do feel it is underpowered. I am not some clueless fanboi. If I were, I would despise the BRZ on principle because I come from a 240sx and are a huge fan of the Silvia line. That said, if a new Silvia were on the showroom floor right now, today, with 200hp and 2800lbs at $27k, I would be equally upset with Nissan. If it were sporting 250hp-260hp on turbocharged motor at that price point, I would be all over that car. Same with the BRZ. But it doesn't. That is my opinion on the matter. That is how I view the car. Doesn't make the BRZ a bad vehicle, it simply does not match what I want out a vehicle at that price point.

My point, that you CHOOSING TO IGNORE is:

Accept it and move on instead rehashing your same point and throwing in inflamatory language to make yourself feel better and choosing certain phrasing to make yourself feel superior like all of this:

Which forces me to reach no other conclusion than you are bludgeoning people over the head with your opinion and deriding them for having their own opinion which is a piss poor way of trying to convince others to see it your way. Also found here in a response to shado:

So as you can see, my hope:

Has indeed not happened yet. The fact that you chose to respond to this particular quote gives me a chuckle.

[EDIT]Also, I am washing my hands of this conversation. If you cannot figure it out now, I can at least stop wasting my time.

Please see Spikuh's sig for instructions on how to build a better driver's car than the BRZ for much cheaper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sibze

This thread is going to get locked and raped in the back of the closet

Only after it has been raped will it come out of the closet

Lug · 06-01-2012, 10:47 AM

I'd rather have a Mazdaspeed3 as a DD because the numbers are SO much better :innocentsmilie:

XwChriswX · 06-01-2012, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sibze

This thread is going to get locked and raped in the back of the closet

You would be the resident expert on that wouldn't you....

You poor poor victim.

Shame on shado!

Thechidz · 06-01-2012, 04:59 PM

Saw on today in monticello

Isamu · 06-01-2012, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

I desperately want them to make a version with OEM boost and compete seriously with the Z.

That would be my next car (unless the next Z is even better...)

vo2max99 · 06-02-2012, 01:11 PM

First of all, nobodies dismissing anyone's "opinion". The point here is that there is really no bases to have a negative "opinion" on a car "s" that have received such overwhelming praise.

Again, if the car "s" (BRZ / FR-S) where deemed somehow "over-priced / under-powered) according to various reports then sure there may be a legitimate bases for criticism but this is not the case.

If you personally driven the car "s" and felt for whatever reason they where "over-priced / under-powered" sure your opinion would be more valid for "you" personally.

I haven't stated one way or the other that the BRZ / FR-S are defiantly well worth the price, etc. However, based on reports there is NO reason for me to think everyone who's tested the car is somehow wrong.

Obviously if you're more into #'s the BRZ / FR-S aren't for you but according to the information available there's no good reason to assume they'll somehow be over-priced / under-powered".

I'm not sure how much more clear I can make this. It's pretty simply stuff / doesn't take a super high IQ to compute.

The bottom-line is that of course you can have an "opinion" but if your "opinion" can't be backed by proof it's sorta dumb...

---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?0aohav

b1adesofcha0s · 06-02-2012, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vo2max99

First of all, nobodies dismissing anyone's "opinion". The point here is that there is really no bases to have a negative "opinion" on a car "s" that have received such overwhelming praise.

Again, if the car "s" (BRZ / FR-S) where deemed somehow "over-priced / under-powered) according to various reports then sure there may be a legitimate bases for criticism but this is not the case.

If you personally driven the car "s" and felt for whatever reason they where "over-priced / under-powered" sure your opinion would be more valid for "you" personally.

I haven't stated one way or the other that the BRZ / FR-S are defiantly well worth the price, etc. However, based on reports there is NO reason for me to think everyone who's tested the car is somehow wrong.

Obviously if you're more into #'s the BRZ / FR-S aren't for you but according to the information available there's no good reason to assume they'll somehow be over-priced / under-powered".

I'm not sure how much more clear I can make this. It's pretty simply stuff / doesn't take a super high IQ to compute.

The bottom-line is that of course you can have an "opinion" but if your "opinion" can't be backed by proof it's sorta dumb...

---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?0aohav

If it could be backed by proof then it would be a fact, not an opinion. That's kind of the definition of an opinion:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dictionary.com

opinion: a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty

I think the point we're all making that you don't seem to understand is that you can't assume car "s" is a positive or negative for you without actually having driven it. You're saying we can't assume that it's overpriced or underpowered because we haven't driven it. At the same time there is no validity in you declaring it's a great driver's car if you haven't driven it. You can look at magazine comparisons all you want, but at the end of the day those are still opinions not facts. If you search around enough you can find positive and negative reviews about any car and you can't really prove which ones are correct or not because they are just opinions.

speedfreek · 06-02-2012, 01:53 PM

06-01-2012, 10:47 AM	#1130 (permalink)
Lug A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 1,926 Drives: 2006 350Z Rep Power: 19	I'd rather have a Mazdaspeed3 as a DD because the numbers are SO much better :innocentsmilie: __________________ keep Chubbs in your pocket - Chubbs

06-01-2012, 04:59 PM	#1132 (permalink)
Thechidz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: NY Posts: 1,009 Drives: Nissan 370z Monti Bl Rep Power: 15	Saw on today in monticello __________________ I <3 my car

06-02-2012, 01:11 PM	#1134 (permalink)
vo2max99 Base Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 120 Drives: 08MS3-BM-6MT Rep Power: 13	First of all, nobodies dismissing anyone's "opinion". The point here is that there is really no bases to have a negative "opinion" on a car "s" that have received such overwhelming praise. Again, if the car "s" (BRZ / FR-S) where deemed somehow "over-priced / under-powered) according to various reports then sure there may be a legitimate bases for criticism but this is not the case. If you personally driven the car "s" and felt for whatever reason they where "over-priced / under-powered" sure your opinion would be more valid for "you" personally. I haven't stated one way or the other that the BRZ / FR-S are defiantly well worth the price, etc. However, based on reports there is NO reason for me to think everyone who's tested the car is somehow wrong. Obviously if you're more into #'s the BRZ / FR-S aren't for you but according to the information available there's no good reason to assume they'll somehow be over-priced / under-powered". I'm not sure how much more clear I can make this. It's pretty simply stuff / doesn't take a super high IQ to compute. The bottom-line is that of course you can have an "opinion" but if your "opinion" can't be backed by proof it's sorta dumb... --- I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?0aohav Last edited by vo2max99; 06-02-2012 at 01:20 PM.

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06-01-2012, 09:48 AM	#1128 (permalink)
Sibze A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 16,202 Drives: In your way Rep Power: 62	This thread is going to get locked and raped in the back of the closet

06-02-2012, 01:53 PM	#1136 (permalink)
speedfreek A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Huntsville,AL Posts: 1,724 Drives: '12 370Z PW 6sp Rep Power: 18