Subaru powered Toyota FT-86 Concept

Shamu · 05-18-2012, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vo2max99

So much misinformation I don't even know where to begin..

Let's start with the BRZ / FR-S

* It's curb weight is ~ 2750lbs NOT 3000lbs.

* It puts down 173WHP NOT under 150WHP

* 0-60 in 6.2 and 14.8 quarter is plenty quick enough for a car like the BRZ / FR-S. More power wouldn't do much for the fun factor just screw with the balance and limit engagement.

* EVO is basically the ONLY one's saying the BRZ is under powered. Considering they could only muster a 7.6 0-60 and tested the AUTO version may have something to do with it but not that much.

* I'll take the word over the vast majority over one set of reviews basically claiming the complete opposite. Their motives for basically saying the BRZ is a POS? Can't say for sure but no way in hell can so many be so wrong about the car.

For the lost one saying the Z is somehow vastly superior to cars like the MX-5 / BRZ:

The MX-5 is far FAR the superior driver's car. So if 99.9% of the reviews who've tested the BRZ / FR-S are correct the BRZ / FR-S will also blow the Z out of the water where it actually matters. Don't believe it? Wait until Car and Driver / Road & Track / Motor Trend, etc test them.

Not long ago Car and Driver tested / compared (best 40K and under) the Mustang GT, 370Z, MX-5, EVO X, GTI, Cooper JCW.

Results? The EVO X and MX-5 are in another league above the rest. Far better handling / driver's cars than the rest.

The 370Z finished behind the Mustang GT ahead of only the FWD GTI and Mini Cooper JCW barely.

They rated the 370Z the least fun to drive of all the cars. The EVO X and MX-5 finished WAY far ahead in the fun to drive category as well. The Z did post the 2nd quickest lab though! Not that really matters.

The #'a don't mean **** unless your racing your daily drivers for a living.

Again, considering 99.9% say the BRZ / FR-S is similar to the MX-5 it will in fact be far more fun / rewarding to drive than your precious Z.

I'm not here to stoke egos just stating reality. Sorry but your Z isn't all you think it is. If your happy with it that's great but don't fool yourself there are much better cars.

A car doesn't have to have all kinds of power to be a great driver's car when it has a well balanced chassis and accessible limits. Cars with really high limits need the extra power a hence can only really be exploited on a race track.

Again see Mazda MX-5 it's pure proof of this. The fact that it doesn't have a whole lot of power makes it fun as well as you can drive closer to 99% more of the time. Most cars today have far too much power and way higher limits than necessary for the street.

I don't have a problem acknowledging the weaknesses of the car I'm currently driving being an 08' MS3. I have no issue acknowledging that while it's the fastest Mazda currently offers it's by no means the best sports car Mazda offers.

The MX-5 is by far more fun / rewarding to drive and there's plenty of other cars that I have no problem admitting are much better than my MS3. Had I not been in a serious relationship at the time with a kid I would have gotten more of a pure sports car but the MS3 is still a decent car.

The novelty of going fast in a straight line runs off fast (I've driven plenty of 11-12 sec cars) There's so much more to a good sports car than how fast it goes.

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I never said curb weight was 3000. I said realistic weight is 3000 lbs when you have passenger and fuel in the car. That wieght with little NA 2.0 is going to be sucky for most street driving.

The car doesn't make much power at all under 4000 rpm. 0 to 60 times from a test track are worthless unless you plan to drop clutch with 4000 rpm like faster testers did! Lol!

Might want to check your claim on 173 WHP. im sure there's a Dyno somewhere that will show 200 WHP somewhere. Lol!

I agree this car has definitely got chassis to perform well however it's woefully underpowered to be considered a serious sports car. Most of the time it will have acceleration similar to a Mazda 3 or a Civic SI. Not overly impressive. And when you couple great chassis with underpowered motor things get boring fast!

It's got it where it counts? And you think Z doesn't handle well? Lol! Look at national stock autocross results. couple of 370z right in the thick of things with little Miatas in event that tests agility! I haven't seen a Miata faster than my 370z at events for a while.

Cars with high limits for street not fun? I completely disagree. This is a myth made by people who don't drive these cars. My 450 hp 2900 lb 370z is a blast on the street. Way more fun than my Miata and my boxsters were! Something to be said about having power and handling! I love jumping on power out of turn in the z. It's actually safer as I can have fun at slower speeds. Miata I had to be moving to feel the fun factor.

I have owned and driven Miatas, Porsches, nissans and toyotas on the track. You might be surprised at how agile a well setup 370z is. They gain much more agility than Miata does when suspension mods are made. I stick on Miatas all the way through turns with no issues on track. In fact my pleasure is to pass Miatas and lose them in S turns.

I really think your misinformed? Hopefully your doing some research now to be better informed rather than falling for all the Marketing hype of the " balanced chassis". Or "designed with passion" or lower CG than a Lamborghini. Lol!

flashburn · 05-17-2012, 07:25 AM

Nikkolai · 05-17-2012, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashburn

lol I agree. Never knew a person who defended a car so much and not even owning it and going off what magazines say.

Driver's car...

excuses that underpowered tiny cars say to defend themselves. I'm just going to go ahead and trade in my Mustang for an MX-5 asap since it's more of a "driver's" car. In fact, why even choose a GT-R when you can have a BRZ/FRS since it's a better "driver's" car?

cdoxp800 · 05-17-2012, 08:39 AM

Check this out..
GRMN Gazoo Twin Charged 86 Concept (320hp) Revealed!
GRMN Gazoo Twin Charged 86 Concept (320hp) Revealed! - Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB

NeoSHNIK · 05-17-2012, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdoxp800

Check this out..
GRMN Gazoo Twin Charged 86 Concept (320hp) Revealed!
GRMN Gazoo Twin Charged 86 Concept (320hp) Revealed! - Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB

Now THAT I like!

DarkJak · 05-17-2012, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdoxp800

Check this out..
GRMN Gazoo Twin Charged 86 Concept (320hp) Revealed!
GRMN Gazoo Twin Charged 86 Concept (320hp) Revealed! - Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB

Too bad it'd be practically unattainable, but at least it shows that some forced induction will be made available aftermarket easily enough.

Can't wait till some dealerships around here get the FR-S or BRZ in stock.

BigT · 05-17-2012, 11:35 AM

I'm not feeling the front bumper, but the car as a whole looks pretty good.

DJ-of-E · 05-17-2012, 12:56 PM

@vo2max99

I would agree with you if you compare stock to stock. Out of production, the 370z has a lot of "cost cutting" in which a lot of us feel Nissan never took the Z to the track during the summer to fully realized the huge drawbacks on the car.

The reason they ranked it low is because of the above issues. If you read the article carefully, they said they would rank it close second to the Evo if the following issues did not occur to them:

1) Rising oil cooler temps (hence why aftermarket oil coolers are highly recommended for the 370z)
2) Brake fade (Stock akebonos do not cool properly, 350z Brembos are a lot better).

However, on the car's "performance" itself and feel, they love it. It's kinda like having an RX-7, you think it's magnificent and if the engine pops, you think it's a piece of crap.

Careful when pulling articles when all you read is the title and summary results.

People's opinions can be different. If I own both cars and which I would sell first, it would be the FRS.

vividracing · 05-17-2012, 02:08 PM

Totally forgot to start a thread on this forum... But we've got an FR-S now

VividRacing.com Performance Racing Parts Project Scion FR-S

Zaggeron · 05-17-2012, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vividracing

Totally forgot to start a thread on this forum... But we've got an FR-S now

VividRacing.com Performance Racing Parts Project Scion FR-S

be interesting to see what you do with it. I'm 7 out of 12 on my dealer's pre-order list so I likely won't see mine until the end of summer

MC · 05-17-2012, 08:44 PM

seen this yet?

GRMN Twin Charged FR concept

vo2max99 · 05-17-2012, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikkolai

lol I agree. Never knew a person who defended a car so much and not even owning it and going off what magazines say.

Driver's car...

excuses that underpowered tiny cars say to defend themselves. I'm just going to go ahead and trade in my Mustang for an MX-5 asap since it's more of a "driver's" car. In fact, why even choose a GT-R when you can have a BRZ/FRS since it's a better "driver's" car?

Why would you want a "driver's car" vs. a "numbers car" that is only really fun to drive on a race track? I don't know maybe because if you don't live at a race track cars such as the MX-5, RX-8, S2K are much more fun / rewarding to drive on a daily bases on public roads.

Going any where near the limits of most sports cars made today will land you jail. See: accessible limits.

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vo2max99 · 05-17-2012, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cossie1600

You need to layoff the kool-aid. For one, the RX-8 is a better comparison to the car than the MX-5. Any smallish cars are most likely going to be fun to drive regardless of what engine it has. It's the same reason why all the old Triumphs and MG were so popular even though they were piece of $hit.

Lay off the the kool-aid? And NO not "ANY" smallish car is guaranteed to be fun to drive you got to be kidding.

The problem as I stated is that many people put far too much emphasis on the #'s when it's the subjective stuff that actually matters.

Hence dismissing the BRZ / FR-S just because they aren't as quick as others is ignorant. Judging the car based on one (1) single terrible review is ignorant as well.

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vo2max99 · 05-17-2012, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ-of-E

@vo2max99

I would agree with you if you compare stock to stock. Out of production, the 370z has a lot of "cost cutting" in which a lot of us feel Nissan never took the Z to the track during the summer to fully realized the huge drawbacks on the car.

The reason they ranked it low is because of the above issues. If you read the article carefully, they said they would rank it close second to the Evo if the following issues did not occur to them:

1) Rising oil cooler temps (hence why aftermarket oil coolers are highly recommended for the 370z)
2) Brake fade (Stock akebonos do not cool properly, 350z Brembos are a lot better).

However, on the car's "performance" itself and feel, they love it. It's kinda like having an RX-7, you think it's magnificent and if the engine pops, you think it's a piece of crap.

Careful when pulling articles when all you read is the title and summary results.

People's opinions can be different. If I own both cars and which I would sell first, it would be the FRS.

I've read the reviews and driven the car myself and the reason the Z isn't as good a driver's car vs. the EVO X and MX-5 go far beyond the oil heating and brake problems.

The general consensus is that the Z isn't a very good driver's car. It consistently places near the rear in best handling / best driver's car comparisons. Not to say the Z is a terrible car it isn't and I would take one over a Genesis Coupe and ANY FWD car including my 08' MS3.

The Z simply does not offer the same steering feedback / feel, chassis control and general overall experience as either the EVO or MX-5. It's a decent car for posting quick lab times but there are much better options for driver's cars.

How you could say you would ditch a BRZ before you ditched a Z without having never driven one is kinda odd. Personally I would ditch the one that was the least fun to drive (likely the Z if the BRZ is any where near as fun as the MX-5).

Again, it just depends on what you want. I value the experience behind the wheel over the test track #'s. Other's are more about drag / street racing and chose #'s above all else.

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bigsix · 05-17-2012, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vo2max99

I've read the reviews and driven the car myself and the reason the Z isn't as good a driver's car vs. the EVO X and MX-5 go far beyond the oil heating and brake problems.

The general consensus is that the Z isn't a very good driver's car. It consistently places near the rear in best handling / best driver's car comparisons. Not to say the Z is a terrible car it isn't and I would take one over a Genesis Coupe and ANY FWD car including my 08' MS3.

The Z simply does not offer the same steering feedback / feel, chassis control and general overall experience as either the EVO or MX-5. It's a decent car for posting quick lab times but there are much better options for driver's cars.

How you could say you would ditch a BRZ before you ditched a Z without having never driven one is kinda odd. Personally I would ditch the one that was the least fun to drive (likely the Z if the BRZ is any where near as fun as the MX-5).

Again, it just depends on what you want. I value the experience behind the wheel over the test track #'s. Other's are more about drag / street racing and chose #'s above all else.

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I definitely understand your point of view regarding driver's cars.

I do think the Z car offers many things that are geared towards the driver:

inside the car = dash mounted gauges, prominent tachometer, sport steering wheel, sport bucket seats...

drivetrain = 3.7 liter V6 engine, 6 speed manual tranny, 7 speed automatic tranny w/ manual shift, limited slip diff...

chassis/suspension = performance brakes, RAYS sport wheels, sport tires, adavanced suspension design both front and rear, stiff/rigid body structure w/ use of steel & aluminium metals...

I think a Z car is very much a driver's car. It does put some emphasis on style and speed a little more than steering feedback, but all parts of the driving experience have been thoughtfully engineered by Nissan, I feel.

05-17-2012, 07:25 AM	#2 (permalink)
flashburn A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,884 Drives: '12 Corvette GS 6M Rep Power: 21	__________________ Current Ride: 2012 Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport Centennial Edition Carbon Flash 6M Previous Ride: 2009 Nissan 370Z Sport Platinum Graphite 7AT

05-17-2012, 08:39 AM	#4 (permalink)
cdoxp800 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: FL Posts: 1,337 Drives: 2011 Nismo Rep Power: 21	Check this out.. GRMN Gazoo Twin Charged 86 Concept (320hp) Revealed! GRMN Gazoo Twin Charged 86 Concept (320hp) Revealed! - Scion FR-S Forum \| Subaru BRZ Forum \| Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum \| AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB __________________ 2011 Brilliant Silver NISMO 370z. #: 0046. PPE LTH \| MillSpec Cats \| F.I Exhaust \| Akuma Intakes \| Rotora 6/4 Brakes

05-17-2012, 12:56 PM	#8 (permalink)
DJ-of-E Track Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Garden Grove, CA Posts: 676 Drives: 00 Toyota Celica 040 Rep Power: 17	@vo2max99 I would agree with you if you compare stock to stock. Out of production, the 370z has a lot of "cost cutting" in which a lot of us feel Nissan never took the Z to the track during the summer to fully realized the huge drawbacks on the car. The reason they ranked it low is because of the above issues. If you read the article carefully, they said they would rank it close second to the Evo if the following issues did not occur to them: 1) Rising oil cooler temps (hence why aftermarket oil coolers are highly recommended for the 370z) 2) Brake fade (Stock akebonos do not cool properly, 350z Brembos are a lot better). However, on the car's "performance" itself and feel, they love it. It's kinda like having an RX-7, you think it's magnificent and if the engine pops, you think it's a piece of crap. Careful when pulling articles when all you read is the title and summary results. People's opinions can be different. If I own both cars and which I would sell first, it would be the FRS. __________________ Last edited by DJ-of-E; 05-17-2012 at 01:10 PM.

05-17-2012, 02:08 PM	#9 (permalink)
vividracing The370Z.com Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Gilbert, AZ Age: 39 Posts: 7,306 Drives: 350Z,370Z,GTR Rep Power: 41	Totally forgot to start a thread on this forum... But we've got an FR-S now VividRacing.com Performance Racing Parts Project Scion FR-S __________________ Rocky @ Vivid ♦ 480.966.3040 x236 ♦ Rocky@vividracing.com Email, PM, or call me directly for aggressive The370Z.com member pricing!!!

05-17-2012, 08:44 PM	#11 (permalink)
MC Moderator Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: NC Posts: 3,238 Drives: 2015 GTR NISMO Rep Power: 25	seen this yet? GRMN Twin Charged FR concept __________________ 2015 GT-R N1SMO "THE ONE" Instagram MCGTRN1SMO Youtube MCGTRNISMO

05-17-2012, 11:35 AM	#7 (permalink)
BigT Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: NJ Posts: 469 Drives: 98 2g DSM Rep Power: 15	I'm not feeling the front bumper, but the car as a whole looks pretty good.

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