Subaru powered Toyota FT-86 Concept

kenchan

thanks! i will test drive one myself, but at the moment i scratched it off my list of dd's to buy. for me it would be the FRS.

for some reason the car reminds me of a tamiya grasshopper theme.. lol

theDreamer

Looks like Vivid Racing has got one and has started playing with it:
FR-S Inbound - Vivid just reserved an FR-S! - MY350Z.COM Forums

__________________
theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN
theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY
Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

vo2max99

The VAST majority who've tested the BRZ / FR-S say it's a phenomenal sports car not in need of more power (Car and Driver; Road&Track; Motor Trend; Edmunds, Automobile Mag; etc,etc..)

Judging the car based on test track #'s (apparently this is what EVO does) doesn't even begin to scratch the surface.

The Z is in a different league? Sure and if judging solely by #'s most other cars 35K and under are in a "different league" compared to the BRZ / FR-S.

The BRZ / FR-S weren't built to produce fast test track #'s. They were built to be excellent driver's cars and by ALL accounts (other than EVO I suppose because they judge more on #'s) they've delivered.

A turbo kit would do nothing other than make the BRZ / FR-S produce quicker test track #'s. The vast majority who've actually test driven the car say it has just the right balance of power to make it a blast to drive on a daily bases. A turbo kit would be a waste of money / ruin the cars great balance.

The bottom line is that at least 9/10 say the BRZ / FR-S are among the best cars to drive right up there with the Mazda MX-5 Miata. So if this is indeed the case the car is going to be phenomenal.

As they said theirselves if you want #'s they have the STi. If you want a driver's car the BRZ / FR-S deliver.

You can mod the hell out of an STi and have a blast for short 3-4 second burst at a time. Personally I'd rather have a car I can drive closer to 99% for 99% of the time.

---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?x20bpo

Shamu

EVO drivers are much more like minded to enthusiast drivers. They took it on 1000 km road trip. Quite opposite from your assumption. They see BRZ as being awesome track toy where you thrash it to death but the took brz on extended trip on country roads with competing cars. Spent a lot of non track time. They wanted to love the car but couldn't. It's way too buttoned down with not enough power.

They indicated they often were lacking torque and engine is not rewarding but very thrashy. Indicated its very well executed but very boring to drive on the street.

Makes sense to me 2700 lbs of car plus driver are a lot for a little 2.o to haul around. They indicated car is lifeless on street until you get it over 5000 rpm.

Also indicated its toy like. They gave it 3.5 stars. 370z got better rating.

I'll stay with my grown up Z thank you.

They also tested old Wrx against it and said wrx was more exciting to drive. That's pretty damning!

Also ran it on the track were a front wheel drive Renault was putting 5 seconds a lap on it! Ouch!

Here you go

http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/trackday...est_video.html

http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetev...road_trip.html

__________________
Grant

NeoSHNIK

vo2max99, its hard to compare anything without referring to some kind of statistic. Subjective comparisons are great, but they are... subjective. Saying that the car is badass and you can drive it at 99% for 99% of the time is great... but many slower cars can be driven at 99% for 99% of the time (because their acceleration sucks and top speed is low). Does that make it a good sports car? You get used to it and it becomes a dull car...
I'd rather have a car that can be great on the road, but when I get a nice opening or a lonely curvy road - I can have exciting fun with which will end up with my heart rate going up and fun memories/stories.

Zaggeron

I think you mean "subjective". Anyway, the proof of the eating is in the lack of pudding ...

In any event, top speed is rather meaningless for an everyday car. I've never come close to the top speed in my Mazda 3 much less my Z. Acceleration -- from 25 to 50 is a good interval to judge for twisty road fun -- and handling are my main concerns.

__________________
2010 Platinum Graphite 370z Roadster:Touring/Sport
2013 Subaru BRZ Limited

NeoSHNIK

Zaggeron, I did indeed mean "subjective", thank you.

As far as 20-50 acceleration - I agree that its a very good stat for twisty road fun. This is probably my most important stat.
I also tend to have a lot of 0-80mph accelerations from the red light, so that stat is probably most important to me.
Agreed that top speed is mostly good for bragging rights

vo2max99

The BRZ / FR-S produce more than enough power while also having exploitable limits. What's the point in having a car with all kinds of power and extremely high limits when it can only be exploited while going balls to the wall on a race track?

With cars like the BRZ / FR-S you don't have to exceed all the posted limits to have a blast driving it on a daily bases. Because of the relatively modest power and relatively skinny semi-performance tires the BRZ / FR-S can be ran through the gears, induce oversteer, drift, etc without the risk of losing your license, etc.

Again, these cars are all about the experience behind the wheel not 0-60, nurburgring time, etc. Stats are great for selling cars but they don't even begin to scratch the surface when it comes to evaluating how great a sports car is.

This is why cars are thoroughly reviewed / tested first hand and judging by the vast majority of credible entities that have reviewed the BRZ / FR-S they don't need more power are are phenomenal driver's cars.

The Mazda MX-5 Miata is no quicker than the BRZ / FR-S and it is World renown for being one of the best driver's cars on the planet. So there's no reason to think that the BRZ / FR-S wont be as well.

I'll have to test drive before making up my mind in the end. There's always the MX-5 if I'm not entirely convinced. I know for sure that's a phenomenal car because I've driven it so no worries there.

I've driven many far quicker cars and none where nearly as fun to drive other than perhaps an EVO 9. But an EVO is far more expensive to maintain. Oh and the S2000 is awesome but as a daily driver a bit too harsh and I don't want to buy used.


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?0gbvqs

vo2max99

Too many judge cars like this:

Car A: $ 35k / 300hp

Car B: $35k / 200hp

Conclusion: Car is "A" is superior because you get more horse power per dollar.

Of course this is a ridiculous way to go about evaluating the worth of a car but this is unfortunately how most do it.

Marketers need to do a better job at convincing the public that #'s don't even begin to tell the full story. Until this happens the horse power wars will continue.

They'll continue to produce over powered cars with extremely high limits that aren't much fun to drive unless your on a race track.


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?yomh0e

Shamu

Mazda seemed to do fine convincing people that you don't need power to have fun? I have owned Mazda MX5 and found that car more fun to drive than heavier more powerfully Porsche boxsters I owned. Toyota and subi built something very close to 2.5 liter Porsche Boxster. Great car but boring as heck to drive on street

My 450 HP sub 3000 lb Z is a true hoot to drive compared to well buttoned down boxsters.

I also owned 3 porsche 914s and 914/6. Way less power than anything above including BRZ but fun to drive.

I don't think BRZ developers got the fun to drive piece completely. I'm waiting for next generation. They will still send a ton based on hype but serious sports car drivers are likely be on the fence.

To be honest I had a Toyota Echo with full coil overs and big swaybars that was one of most fun cars I have ever driven it would set into turn with oversteer and had to use its 95 Ho to haul it out of a spin.

__________________
Grant

kenchan

vo2- you really like the BRZ/FRS, huh?

vo2max99

I don't know but I'm not going to diss it just because it doesn't run a certain 0-60 time, etc.


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?4ht235

vo2max99

The numbers a particular car produces often way over rates it's overall value is terms of being a great sports car. There are multiple examples which prove precisely this.

If you want a good idea of how good / bad a particular car is you obviously need to drive it. The numbers will give you an idea of how fast / slow the car is but that's about it.

If the 0-60, 1/4m, skid pad, slalom #'s, etc. was all there was to the value of a sports car there would be no need for reviews, test drives or anything. You'd just buy the car that produced the best #'s for the money and be done with it.

Far more important reviews are the "Best handling / Best Driver's car" reviews. These type of test / reviews reveal how the car actually drives, feels from behind the wheel, connects with the driver, etc. The subjective qualities that actually matter are revealed.

With that said I'll guarantee the BRZ / FR-S will finish far ahead ALL of the merely more powerful / faster cars in its segment (EVO X possibly being one exception as far as handling) and most above. In other words the cars will excel in the areas that actually matter not so much the #'s.



---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?4ggftl

vo2max99

Oh and that's what 1 out of how many reviews that say the opposite? I got a feeling they are full of ****. EVO is known for being shitty at car reviews so what they say doesn't mean anything as far as I'm concerned.

I'll take the word of the VAST Majority until I get a chance to drive one myself.

Your "grown up" Z? Well your "grown up" Z gets destroyed by a little MX-5 where it matters. The BRZ / FR-S according to 99.9% who've tested say it doesn't need more power and should be among the best driver's cars available.

Just wait until Car and Driver / Road & Track compare / test the BRZ / FR- S against your "grown up" Z in test that actually matter. I can almost guarantee the BRZ / FR-S will rate far ahead of your "grown up" Z.

I just noticed that EVO could only muster a 7.6 0-60time so they either can't drive worth a time or they were handed a busted BRZ to test. Others have posted times ranging in the 6.2-6.4 range.

Regardless the car isn't about #'s and should be a phenomenal driver's car. EVO is CLEARLY full of **** and this wouldn't be the first time they published a BS review. They're consisting coming to conclusions completely contrary to reality. Their mentally is like the typical 20 year old kid judging cars almost solely on "how fast" it goes. UK Top Gear has more credibility than them and that isn't saying much at all.

---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?uywwxw

NeoSHNIK

Pretty sure most of 370z owners have researched the sports car market before choosing the Z. I'm sure we all understand that the cute Miata has good cornering capabilities but that's about it. So we chose the Z for a reason.
Most cars have something special. If you care about the price, you should go with Versa and you can say that "where it matters" Versa destroys all competition. If all that matters is interior quality you will say Aston Martin Raptide destroys all competition "where it matters". If you care about a straight line acceleration at a good price you will say that the mustang destroys all "where it matters"... and everyone is right from their own perspective.
So it seems like cornering is the only one thing that matters to you. You don't care how silly your car looks. You don't care about acceleration and power? You don't care about interior quality. You don't care how all the stats translate to track times or quarter mile times. In that case, yes, the Miata is best for you.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that from the perspective of Z owners (and that's your audience right now), Miata doesn't "destroy competition where it matters" for most Z owners... especially not me. Try this trick on Miata forums and I'm sure you can get some extra respect