FWD BRZ Fighter? Thoughts for Nissan Lovers!

Jordo! · 03-12-2013, 10:57 PM

I'll take a fast, well sorted, FWD over a slow, underwhelming RWD car any day.

That said, I'd like to see Nissan take the Megane transaxle and motor and stick it in the back to make a MR layout. That could lead to a "pure" sports car with the existing partsbin, and fill a niche left open by the demise of the MR2/MRS.

UNKNOWN_370 · 03-13-2013, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

I'll take a fast, well sorted, FWD over a slow, underwhelming RWD car any day.

That said, I'd like to see Nissan take the Megane transaxle and motor and stick it in the back to make a MR layout. That could lead to a "pure" sports car with the existing partsbin, and fill a niche left open by the demise of the MR2/MRS.

I agree with everything you said. I have my Z34, so if a FWD comes out that's going to destroy next gen RWD's in a certain price range? Why not. That's just something I wouldn't do without an RWD in my garage.

That said, IMHO the FRS isn't enough car not to consider FWD. Now a FWD car in my Z's world. I'd laugh at a FWD that matched my cars price & specs. But a 250hp/$25k FWD... Why not? An FWD with more than 300hp, is useless and unnecessary imho unless you like drag racing FWD.

MR Megane? AWESOME IDEA!!!

ZBro16 · 03-19-2013, 10:33 AM

Anything FWD is not a BRZ fighter. /thread.

Nissan needs another S chassis or come back with a Z trim that has a smaller output powertrain similar to how they did it with the Z32 with the N/A or TT options. They already have an engine for this to happen: the V6 from the G25 Infiniti. Same HP but more torque than the boxer found in the twins.

ZBro16 · 03-19-2013, 10:35 AM

With the above said, I wouldn't mind a Nissan version of the Megane slotted against the Focus ST and Mazdaspeed3, but it likely will not ever happen since Nissan has such a hard on for the Juke.

UNKNOWN_370 · 03-19-2013, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZBro16

With the above said, I wouldn't mind a Nissan version of the Megane slotted against the Focus ST and Mazdaspeed3, but it likely will not ever happen since Nissan has such a hard on for the Juke.

I agree with this but another RWD won't happen. The best thing that can happen is they make an FWD mini Gt-R type vehicle from the megane and build an AWD version ala juke with the capability of rivaling RWD BRZ.

Of course they wouldn;\'t be isntantly direct competitors. But it would be like the GT-R, 911 wars. The 911 is RWD and the GT-R is AWD. They technically aren't competitors. But they are both so good they just throw them on the same track.
If we can make this kind of buzz in the broke mans world. The nissan AWD coupe could make a smash on BRZ sales still, the way the Gt-R impacts 911 sales.

ZBro16 · 03-19-2013, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

I agree with this but another RWD won't happen. The best thing that can happen is they make an FWD mini Gt-R type vehicle from the megane and build an AWD version ala juke with the capability of rivaling RWD BRZ.

Of course they wouldn;\'t be isntantly direct competitors. But it would be like the GT-R, 911 wars. The 911 is RWD and the GT-R is AWD. They technically aren't competitors. But they are both so good they just throw them on the same track.
If we can make this kind of buzz in the broke mans world. The nissan AWD coupe could make a smash on BRZ sales still, the way the Gt-R impacts 911 sales.

I think that, with the potential return of the Honda S2000, Nissan has an opportunity to make a partnership to make a RWD car happen. Utilize the same approach Toyota and Subaru used.

Disagree about the GT-R and 911 market scenario. The 911 Turbo is the benchmark for the GT-R and it has been AWD since the GT-R has been around. I think the approach you brought up with a mini GT-R style vehicle could in theory be a competitor, but the cost of said vehicle would absolutely crush its chances of success. It will be far too close to the cost of a Z, which is why I see the NISMO Juke as a potential failure because I do not see how Nissan will price it for less than 30K.

UNKNOWN_370 · 03-19-2013, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZBro16

I think that, with the potential return of the Honda S2000, Nissan has an opportunity to make a partnership to make a RWD car happen. Utilize the same approach Toyota and Subaru used.

Disagree about the GT-R and 911 market scenario. The 911 Turbo is the benchmark for the GT-R and it has been AWD since the GT-R has been around. I think the approach you brought up with a mini GT-R style vehicle could in theory be a competitor, but the cost of said vehicle would absolutely crush its chances of success. It will be far too close to the cost of a Z, which is why I see the NISMO Juke as a potential failure because I do not see how Nissan will price it for less than 30K.

I don't think Nissan is trying to slot a RWD under the Z. That's why they're exploring other drivetrains. At best there will be a low end motor and high end motor for the Z.
Not quite. The AWD platform is in the Juke, it's cheap and very advanced... The chassis of the juke is 2800 lbs in FWD 2900 in AWD. A sport coupe would be lighter than a coupe by 250lbs at least. As long as they stay away from CVT in the sport coupe, it could work.

ZBro16 · 03-19-2013, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

I don't think Nissan is trying to slot a RWD under the Z. That's why they're exploring other drivetrains. At best there will be a low end motor and high end motor for the Z.

Not quite. The AWD platform is in the Juke, it's cheap and very advanced... The chassis of the juke is 2800 lbs in FWD 2900 in AWD. A sport coupe would be lighter than a coupe by 250lbs at least. As long as they stay away from CVT in the sport coupe, it could work.

In the grand scheme of things, I don't consider the Juke AWD to be very advanced, so agree to disagree there. I find the Impreza WRX AWD system to be a notch above it, and they can both be obtained for the same price point.

I would bring up the Altima Coupe as the reason why the sport coupe idea from Nissan needs to try something different (CVT-FWD I4 is the only 2013 option). That car is likely going out of production as Nissan removed the V6 option and the manual tranny altogether and has been completely mum about a redesign to line up with the 5th gen Altima Sedan. What could be fun is even the AWD CVT drivetrain built into a new Altima Coupe, but the Altima platform isn't built for it, so the likelihood of that even happening is slim to none.

As it stands, Nissan doesn't have a MT-AWD platform in production for the American market (I'm not even sure they have that anywhere else either). They would have to build it. They have at least a couple more options for MT-RWD (and even MT-FWD) that would cost them less in R&D dollars. If it costs them a lot in R&D, they won't be able to produce a competitor on their own because the vehicle would be priced too high to compete even if they built it. This is the same reason why Subaru and Toyota had to go in on it together, and they even reused many parts (the transmission is from a Lexus IS).

The reason the BRZ works is because RWD is the desired platform for a fun-to-drive sports car, and the car is relatively inexpensive. AWD is indeed great, but it is more expensive to produce and maintain, so to make a budget minded vehicle like the BRZ and make it meet it head on, it has to be RWD or it's just another car in the mix. Fun to drive usually also includes rowing through gears, and going CVT only will not be the answer, either.

The ball is in Nissan's court though. I hope they can show a bit of the "nissan of old" spirit and make something really fun.

gsxr750 · 03-19-2013, 11:46 AM

You really need at least 300 hp + in a small car to really make it seem fast and fun to drive and it really helps it to be a 2 seater.

All the low HP coupes, sedans FWD and RWD ones all fall into about the same category and are just simply boring to drive, even if they look cool on the outside after driving these cars for a few days they just becoming boring like a sentra or a corolla.

The forumla for a fun and exciting sports car is simple keep it under 3500 lbs and have 300 HP or more, power to weight ratio and handling is the most important thing in the car.

Any of the low priced entry level muscle cars would be a better choice than any low powered import.

UNKNOWN_370 · 03-19-2013, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr750

You really need at least 300 hp + in a small car to really make it seem fast and fun to drive and it really helps it to be a 2 seater.

All the low HP coupes, sedans FWD and RWD ones all fall into about the same category and are just simply boring to drive, even if they look cool on the outside after driving these cars for a few days they just becoming boring like a sentra or a corolla.

The forumla for a fun and exciting sports car is simple keep it under 3500 lbs and have 300 HP or more, power to weight ratio and handling is the most important thing in the car.

Any of the low priced entry level muscle cars would be a better choice than any low powered import.

Subjective... You're missing a ton of variables that make driving fun.

gsxr750 · 03-19-2013, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Subjective... You're missing a ton of variables that make driving fun.

What makes it fun, its slow, not good on gas mileage, cheaply constructed.

It might be fun to drive on a auto cross course or tear up a local parking lot, but thats about it. I drove one about a yr ago and it did nothing for me.

A Mazda RX8 is a lot better car and more fun than the BRZ.

I even just test drove one again with my wife in shopping for a new car for her and she hated it and decided on a loaded 13 V6 honda accord.

UNKNOWN_370 · 03-19-2013, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr750

What makes it fun, its slow, not good on gas mileage, cheaply constructed.

It might be fun to drive on a auto cross course or tear up a local parking lot, but thats about it. I drove one about a yr ago and it did nothing for me.

A Mazda RX8 is a lot better car and more fun than the BRZ.

I even just test drove one again with my wife in shopping for a new car for her and she hated it and decided on a loaded 13 V6 honda accord.

I'll accept the highlighted.

But you're kinda going all over the place in your thoughts right now. I'm saying that there are more variables to a car being fun over hp and rwd.

ZBro16 · 03-19-2013, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr750

What makes it fun, its slow, not good on gas mileage, cheaply constructed.

It might be fun to drive on a auto cross course or tear up a local parking lot, but thats about it. I drove one about a yr ago and it did nothing for me.

A Mazda RX8 is a lot better car and more fun than the BRZ.

The RX8 also cost a lot more than the BRZ when it was produced.

Truthfully, a lot of us need to chill out on the BRZ. After all, most (if not all) of us have driven a 370Z for a long time, and going to a BRZ from a Z, well, it should feel cheap! I disagree about the cheap construction from my impressions of it when you are mindful of its pricepoint. I also don't understand your basis for its gas mileage. It does a lot better than a Z does, but it's not blowing the doors off a Prius for MPGs.

UNKNOWN_370 · 03-22-2013, 10:28 AM

Slightly off topic but on topic

BRZ gets beat by Civic HFP???

Tooo many concessions are being made for this "Farveghnugen" BRZ. The greatest sports car in history got beat by a FWD civic.

2013 Subaru BRZ vs. 2012 Honda Civic Si HFP - YouTube

So what does it beat on the track?

Kia Rio?
Hyundai accent?

Does it tie with elantra coupes?

Will it get defeated by the veloster turbo?

nuTinmuch · 03-22-2013, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Slightly off topic but on topic

BRZ gets beat by Civic HFP???

Tooo many concessions are being made for this "Farveghnugen" BRZ. The greatest sports car in history got beat by a FWD civic.

2013 Subaru BRZ vs. 2012 Honda Civic Si HFP - YouTube

So what does it beat on the track?

Kia Rio?
Hyundai accent?

Does it tie with elantra coupes?

Will it get defeated by the veloster turbo?

Did you watch the video?

"The truth is, the Civic has way stickier tires, and if all things were equal the BRZ would be 2 or 3 seconds faster."

And before you say "but they are the tires it comes with!" -- well, not quite. The thing about the HFP package is that it comes with the wheels, the tire choice is entirely up to you and costs extra. Likewise, it isn't a cheap "package" either.

http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-si-coupe/hfp.aspx

Read the fine print:

Replacement tires required. Yokohama AVID W4S Ultra High Performance All-Season tires (215/40R18) are recommended but not included in the HFP package.

Also -- on Subaru's AWD system. It's actually a very basic system, way less advanced than most of 'em out there. But that's also why it is so good -- simplicity is good sometimes.

03-12-2013, 10:57 PM	#1 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 419	I'll take a fast, well sorted, FWD over a slow, underwhelming RWD car any day. That said, I'd like to see Nissan take the Megane transaxle and motor and stick it in the back to make a MR layout. That could lead to a "pure" sports car with the existing partsbin, and fill a niche left open by the demise of the MR2/MRS. __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

03-22-2013, 10:28 AM	#14 (permalink)
UNKNOWN_370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: ny'r livn in tx Posts: 8,687 Drives: well over 130m.p.h. Rep Power: 14859	Slightly off topic but on topic BRZ gets beat by Civic HFP??? Tooo many concessions are being made for this "Farveghnugen" BRZ. The greatest sports car in history got beat by a FWD civic. 2013 Subaru BRZ vs. 2012 Honda Civic Si HFP - YouTube So what does it beat on the track? Kia Rio? Hyundai accent? Does it tie with elantra coupes? Will it get defeated by the veloster turbo? __________________ Favorite Quote. "I'm not gonna kill you... I'm just gonna Bash Your Face In" Jack Nicholson-"The Shining". 1980 Last edited by UNKNOWN_370; 03-22-2013 at 10:31 AM.

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03-19-2013, 10:33 AM	#3 (permalink)
ZBro16 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 370 Drives: A Z. Rep Power: 14	Anything FWD is not a BRZ fighter. /thread. Nissan needs another S chassis or come back with a Z trim that has a smaller output powertrain similar to how they did it with the Z32 with the N/A or TT options. They already have an engine for this to happen: the V6 from the G25 Infiniti. Same HP but more torque than the boxer found in the twins.

03-19-2013, 10:35 AM	#4 (permalink)
ZBro16 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 370 Drives: A Z. Rep Power: 14	With the above said, I wouldn't mind a Nissan version of the Megane slotted against the Focus ST and Mazdaspeed3, but it likely will not ever happen since Nissan has such a hard on for the Juke.

03-19-2013, 11:46 AM	#9 (permalink)
gsxr750 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: west Posts: 443 Drives: 2012 370z man. sport Rep Power: 14	You really need at least 300 hp + in a small car to really make it seem fast and fun to drive and it really helps it to be a 2 seater. All the low HP coupes, sedans FWD and RWD ones all fall into about the same category and are just simply boring to drive, even if they look cool on the outside after driving these cars for a few days they just becoming boring like a sentra or a corolla. The forumla for a fun and exciting sports car is simple keep it under 3500 lbs and have 300 HP or more, power to weight ratio and handling is the most important thing in the car. Any of the low priced entry level muscle cars would be a better choice than any low powered import.