FWD BRZ Fighter? Thoughts for Nissan Lovers!

Jordo! · 03-12-2013, 10:57 PM

I'll take a fast, well sorted, FWD over a slow, underwhelming RWD car any day.

That said, I'd like to see Nissan take the Megane transaxle and motor and stick it in the back to make a MR layout. That could lead to a "pure" sports car with the existing partsbin, and fill a niche left open by the demise of the MR2/MRS.

UNKNOWN_370 · 03-13-2013, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordo!

I'll take a fast, well sorted, FWD over a slow, underwhelming RWD car any day.

That said, I'd like to see Nissan take the Megane transaxle and motor and stick it in the back to make a MR layout. That could lead to a "pure" sports car with the existing partsbin, and fill a niche left open by the demise of the MR2/MRS.

I agree with everything you said. I have my Z34, so if a FWD comes out that's going to destroy next gen RWD's in a certain price range? Why not. That's just something I wouldn't do without an RWD in my garage.

That said, IMHO the FRS isn't enough car not to consider FWD. Now a FWD car in my Z's world. I'd laugh at a FWD that matched my cars price & specs. But a 250hp/$25k FWD... Why not? An FWD with more than 300hp, is useless and unnecessary imho unless you like drag racing FWD.

MR Megane? AWESOME IDEA!!!

ImportConvert · 03-13-2013, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lug

400 out of a 3.8 of a general assembly line with turbos lets you dumb down the built, parts cost, complexity and lets you build a motor far enough away from it's fail point to make it reliable enough for mass production a car. Pushing more out of a 3.0 liter will make it less reliable. The 3.8 is block already developed and you won't need things like the spray in sleeves and full forged components that cost more. The GT-R's motor's cost comes from expensive parts, required tighter tolerances and hand-building, things you can dumb down at lower power levels. Nissan saves costs on uitlizing a block design that's already been in use and tested beyond anything they will need.

Yeah, but it weighs well over 600#. Total fail.

UNKNOWN_370 · 03-13-2013, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lug

400 out of a 3.8 of a general assembly line with turbos lets you dumb down the built, parts cost, complexity and lets you build a motor far enough away from it's fail point to make it reliable enough for mass production a car. Pushing more out of a 3.0 liter will make it less reliable. The 3.8 is block already developed and you won't need things like the spray in sleeves and full forged components that cost more. The GT-R's motor's cost comes from expensive parts, required tighter tolerances and hand-building, things you can dumb down at lower power levels. Nissan saves costs on uitlizing a block design that's already been in use and tested beyond anything they will need.

Don't agree with the highlighted statement. With today's technology and material usage in engines. We can pull 280 Naturally-aspirated horses out the engine reliably and add a reliable twin scroll unit adding 90 production hp to the 3.0. Making it a 370hp engine without any reliability issues. Today there are plenty of N/A performance motors pulling out 100hp-125hp per litre reliably, so 280 from a 3.0 before the turbos isn't even all that dramatic... Nissan was pulling 222 hp from 3.0 reliably in 1990. The extra 58 N/A hp with today's technology is nothing.
There are a lots of twin scroll BMW 135's running around with $2,500 "warranteed from factory stage one tunes" making 400-420hp reliably since BMW went from TT to TSST turbo's. The NA engine used by BMW is a weak 230 horses. So boost is playing a larger role than my idea.

A 3.8 engine wouldn't be nearly as fuel efficient and will make it hard for Nissan to reach Future cafe standard goals. Weight would be heavier in the 3.8TT. A new design 3.0TSST or TT might offer a lower center of gravity for better handling as well as keep weight lower than 3100lbs which I doubt would happen with a 3.8TT.
We would lose or be on par with future muscle cars in handling if we seriously don't consider weight reduction... I think the Z being on par with muscle in handling next generation would be an embarrassment to the nissan name. We have always been the best compromise between power and handling and we always super-exceed in handling considered how powerful our cars are... I don't think we should sacrifice that reputation for a few extra horses.

Generally speaking... The modernized, lighter version of the Z32 motor would still be a beast and a half.

Shamu · 03-13-2013, 08:33 AM

Nissan knows with weight distribution of 57/43 they can't go much over 350 hp. I thinking writing is on the wall. Next z will be slightly smaller with 3.5 liter direct injected that is in new Q cars. No turbo, no BRZ fighter. They don't sell enough Z's to make it profitable to do anything to far from Infiniti sister platforms. Still seems like next Z is a couple years off into future, first need to see Q coupe and the Z will follow year later. I'm afraid next Z might be better styled but overall snoozer.

UNKNOWN_370 · 03-13-2013, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamu

Nissan knows with weight distribution of 57/43 they can't go much over 350 hp. I thinking writing is on the wall. Next z will be slightly smaller with 3.5 liter direct injected that is in new Q cars. No turbo, no BRZ fighter. They don't sell enough Z's to make it profitable to do anything to far from Infiniti sister platforms. Still seems like next Z is a couple years off into future, first need to see Q coupe and the Z will follow year later. I'm afraid next Z might be better styled but overall snoozer.

the Q60 is also getting a turbo 4 so????

Lug · 03-15-2013, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Yeah, but it weighs well over 600#. Total fail.

Just switch from closed deck to open or semi-closed. The closed deck is just to handle the extreme HP of the GT-R. Certainly not needed at power levels discussed.

ZBro16 · 03-19-2013, 10:33 AM

Anything FWD is not a BRZ fighter. /thread.

Nissan needs another S chassis or come back with a Z trim that has a smaller output powertrain similar to how they did it with the Z32 with the N/A or TT options. They already have an engine for this to happen: the V6 from the G25 Infiniti. Same HP but more torque than the boxer found in the twins.

ZBro16 · 03-19-2013, 10:35 AM

With the above said, I wouldn't mind a Nissan version of the Megane slotted against the Focus ST and Mazdaspeed3, but it likely will not ever happen since Nissan has such a hard on for the Juke.

UNKNOWN_370 · 03-19-2013, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZBro16

With the above said, I wouldn't mind a Nissan version of the Megane slotted against the Focus ST and Mazdaspeed3, but it likely will not ever happen since Nissan has such a hard on for the Juke.

I agree with this but another RWD won't happen. The best thing that can happen is they make an FWD mini Gt-R type vehicle from the megane and build an AWD version ala juke with the capability of rivaling RWD BRZ.

Of course they wouldn;\'t be isntantly direct competitors. But it would be like the GT-R, 911 wars. The 911 is RWD and the GT-R is AWD. They technically aren't competitors. But they are both so good they just throw them on the same track.
If we can make this kind of buzz in the broke mans world. The nissan AWD coupe could make a smash on BRZ sales still, the way the Gt-R impacts 911 sales.

gsxr750 · 03-19-2013, 11:46 AM

You really need at least 300 hp + in a small car to really make it seem fast and fun to drive and it really helps it to be a 2 seater.

All the low HP coupes, sedans FWD and RWD ones all fall into about the same category and are just simply boring to drive, even if they look cool on the outside after driving these cars for a few days they just becoming boring like a sentra or a corolla.

The forumla for a fun and exciting sports car is simple keep it under 3500 lbs and have 300 HP or more, power to weight ratio and handling is the most important thing in the car.

Any of the low priced entry level muscle cars would be a better choice than any low powered import.

ZBro16 · 03-19-2013, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

I agree with this but another RWD won't happen. The best thing that can happen is they make an FWD mini Gt-R type vehicle from the megane and build an AWD version ala juke with the capability of rivaling RWD BRZ.

Of course they wouldn;\'t be isntantly direct competitors. But it would be like the GT-R, 911 wars. The 911 is RWD and the GT-R is AWD. They technically aren't competitors. But they are both so good they just throw them on the same track.
If we can make this kind of buzz in the broke mans world. The nissan AWD coupe could make a smash on BRZ sales still, the way the Gt-R impacts 911 sales.

I think that, with the potential return of the Honda S2000, Nissan has an opportunity to make a partnership to make a RWD car happen. Utilize the same approach Toyota and Subaru used.

Disagree about the GT-R and 911 market scenario. The 911 Turbo is the benchmark for the GT-R and it has been AWD since the GT-R has been around. I think the approach you brought up with a mini GT-R style vehicle could in theory be a competitor, but the cost of said vehicle would absolutely crush its chances of success. It will be far too close to the cost of a Z, which is why I see the NISMO Juke as a potential failure because I do not see how Nissan will price it for less than 30K.

UNKNOWN_370 · 03-19-2013, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZBro16

I think that, with the potential return of the Honda S2000, Nissan has an opportunity to make a partnership to make a RWD car happen. Utilize the same approach Toyota and Subaru used.

Disagree about the GT-R and 911 market scenario. The 911 Turbo is the benchmark for the GT-R and it has been AWD since the GT-R has been around. I think the approach you brought up with a mini GT-R style vehicle could in theory be a competitor, but the cost of said vehicle would absolutely crush its chances of success. It will be far too close to the cost of a Z, which is why I see the NISMO Juke as a potential failure because I do not see how Nissan will price it for less than 30K.

I don't think Nissan is trying to slot a RWD under the Z. That's why they're exploring other drivetrains. At best there will be a low end motor and high end motor for the Z.
Not quite. The AWD platform is in the Juke, it's cheap and very advanced... The chassis of the juke is 2800 lbs in FWD 2900 in AWD. A sport coupe would be lighter than a coupe by 250lbs at least. As long as they stay away from CVT in the sport coupe, it could work.

UNKNOWN_370 · 03-19-2013, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr750

You really need at least 300 hp + in a small car to really make it seem fast and fun to drive and it really helps it to be a 2 seater.

All the low HP coupes, sedans FWD and RWD ones all fall into about the same category and are just simply boring to drive, even if they look cool on the outside after driving these cars for a few days they just becoming boring like a sentra or a corolla.

The forumla for a fun and exciting sports car is simple keep it under 3500 lbs and have 300 HP or more, power to weight ratio and handling is the most important thing in the car.

Any of the low priced entry level muscle cars would be a better choice than any low powered import.

Subjective... You're missing a ton of variables that make driving fun.

gsxr750 · 03-19-2013, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Subjective... You're missing a ton of variables that make driving fun.

What makes it fun, its slow, not good on gas mileage, cheaply constructed.

It might be fun to drive on a auto cross course or tear up a local parking lot, but thats about it. I drove one about a yr ago and it did nothing for me.

A Mazda RX8 is a lot better car and more fun than the BRZ.

I even just test drove one again with my wife in shopping for a new car for her and she hated it and decided on a loaded 13 V6 honda accord.

03-12-2013, 10:57 PM	#16 (permalink)
Jordo! A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: nirvana Posts: 6,394 Drives: 2023 NATM Rep Power: 418	I'll take a fast, well sorted, FWD over a slow, underwhelming RWD car any day. That said, I'd like to see Nissan take the Megane transaxle and motor and stick it in the back to make a MR layout. That could lead to a "pure" sports car with the existing partsbin, and fill a niche left open by the demise of the MR2/MRS. __________________ Enjoy it. Destroy it.

03-13-2013, 08:33 AM	#20 (permalink)
Shamu A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Nor Cal Posts: 1,059 Drives: 370Z Racecar Rep Power: 19	Nissan knows with weight distribution of 57/43 they can't go much over 350 hp. I thinking writing is on the wall. Next z will be slightly smaller with 3.5 liter direct injected that is in new Q cars. No turbo, no BRZ fighter. They don't sell enough Z's to make it profitable to do anything to far from Infiniti sister platforms. Still seems like next Z is a couple years off into future, first need to see Q coupe and the Z will follow year later. I'm afraid next Z might be better styled but overall snoozer. __________________ Grant

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03-19-2013, 10:33 AM	#23 (permalink)
ZBro16 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 370 Drives: A Z. Rep Power: 13	Anything FWD is not a BRZ fighter. /thread. Nissan needs another S chassis or come back with a Z trim that has a smaller output powertrain similar to how they did it with the Z32 with the N/A or TT options. They already have an engine for this to happen: the V6 from the G25 Infiniti. Same HP but more torque than the boxer found in the twins.

03-19-2013, 10:35 AM	#24 (permalink)
ZBro16 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 370 Drives: A Z. Rep Power: 13	With the above said, I wouldn't mind a Nissan version of the Megane slotted against the Focus ST and Mazdaspeed3, but it likely will not ever happen since Nissan has such a hard on for the Juke.

03-19-2013, 11:46 AM	#26 (permalink)
gsxr750 Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: west Posts: 443 Drives: 2012 370z man. sport Rep Power: 13	You really need at least 300 hp + in a small car to really make it seem fast and fun to drive and it really helps it to be a 2 seater. All the low HP coupes, sedans FWD and RWD ones all fall into about the same category and are just simply boring to drive, even if they look cool on the outside after driving these cars for a few days they just becoming boring like a sentra or a corolla. The forumla for a fun and exciting sports car is simple keep it under 3500 lbs and have 300 HP or more, power to weight ratio and handling is the most important thing in the car. Any of the low priced entry level muscle cars would be a better choice than any low powered import.