Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ Review

[AlphaSnacks]

I spent a bit of time driving this car a little while ago. There are things I liked, but a lot that I didn't like. The recipe for success is there, but it's just missing that oomph. See below for the link. There will be an STi version of the car next year, and I know that will seriously change every naysayers opinion of this car. I'm really looking forward to it.

Scion FR-S Review

BTW: Pardon the appearance, the site isn't fully finished. I think there may be some glitches for Internet Explorer users.

[UNKNOWN_370]

The article is borderline bashing. BUT, backed up with a lot of facts and I agree with like 80% of this article. I do believe the FR-S and Miata are true-sports cars in their appropriate realm. But, I do agree to the fact that they crossed the line when comparing it to a Z or Cayman, like this review below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhLXvxlQR4

The above was probably the most ridiculous comparison I had ever seen in terms of comparing two cars from the same arena to a car with a whole different mission. Besides, it only proved to me the reviewer in the video cant drive high hp cars.

As far as the WOT article. I love the little FRS, but to me its the car enthusiasts grocery getter, auto-x abuse ride or the novices first sports car. It's no Z. And the writer is right, the Z is far from perfect. But it takes a higher skill level to drive this car which what imho makes it a sports car.

When it comes to the FR-S, soft tires, low end brakes, semi soft suspension, no umph in lower gears and poor acceleration times have made me wonder why this car gets so much hype.

Other aspects make me say, hmmm, the Z can learn a thing or two from the FRS such as... Lightweight & low center of gravity creating a more balanced platform than the Z? But is more balance the ONLY thing that makes a car a sports car? The Z, while not as balanced & nimble as an FRS, is still a balanced and nimble sports car, more than many.

The feedback part of the writers post I found interesting and where i think bias may have truly reared it's ugly head to an extreme???. While he says this car has little to no feedback. Most reviewers are drooling over the cars, feedback. I would like for the writer to elaborate on that. That is an area that I can see him/her having a huge debate with a fanboy.

Good write up but the writer might want to show less disdain for the FR-S so he/she doesn't lose credibility as a writer/reviewer

[Japanjay]

Local dealership has almost ever color FRS sitting on the lot and they are moving either. Been sitting there for a while... I think they hype is dying pretty fast. I still think in 2 years if you can grab one for around 15k that is a good price, drop another 10k into it to get it into a more competitive config worthy of being called a real sports car. Out the box though they are seriously lacking, but have alot of potential, but I wouldnt buy a car new off the lot only to have to void the warranty to make it competitive.

[UNKNOWN_370]

Originally Posted by Japanjay

Local dealership has almost ever color FRS sitting on the lot and they are moving either. Been sitting there for a while... I think they hype is dying pretty fast. I still think in 2 years if you can grab one for around 15k that is a good price, drop another 10k into it to get it into a more competitive config worthy of being called a real sports car. Out the box though they are seriously lacking, but have alot of potential, but I wouldnt buy a car new off the lot only to have to void the warranty to make it competitive.

Good point. This car would cost Z touring money just to mod it to similar specs and you'd still have a chintzy interior. I'd buy one though, It would make a great back and forth to work car that I believe still has some fun factor.

[AlphaSnacks]

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

The article is borderline bashing. BUT, backed up with a lot of facts and I agree with like 80% of this article. I do believe the FR-S and Miata are true-sports cars in their appropriate realm. But, I do agree to the fact that they crossed the line when comparing it to a Z or Cayman, like this review below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhLXvxlQR4

The above was probably the most ridiculous comparison I had ever seen in terms of comparing two cars from the same arena to a car with a whole different mission. Besides, it only proved to me the reviewer in the video cant drive high hp cars.

As far as the WOT article. I love the little FRS, but to me its the car enthusiasts grocery getter, auto-x abuse ride or the novices first sports car. It's no Z. And the writer is right, the Z is far from perfect. But it takes a higher skill level to drive this car which what imho makes it a sports car.

When it comes to the FR-S, soft tires, low end brakes, semi soft suspension, no umph in lower gears and poor acceleration times have made me wonder why this car gets so much hype.

Other aspects make me say, hmmm, the Z can learn a thing or two from the FRS such as... Lightweight & low center of gravity creating a more balanced platform than the Z? But is more balance the ONLY thing that makes a car a sports car? The Z, while not as balanced & nimble as an FRS, is still a balanced and nimble sports car, more than many.

The feedback part of the writers post I found interesting and where i think bias may have truly reared it's ugly head to an extreme???. While he says this car has little to no feedback. Most reviewers are drooling over the cars, feedback. I would like for the writer to elaborate on that. That is an area that I can see him/her having a huge debate with a fanboy.

Good write up but the writer might want to show less disdain for the FR-S so he/she doesn't lose credibility as a writer/reviewer

The writer is me.

I have no qualms with being honest. Credibility is lost when you're not being yourself and are just part of the hype machine. It's unnerving. I've been a critic for many many years now and PR reps have attempted to swindle me in the past. Cars are something I've loved more than anything, but I've only started writing about them very recently.

Anyways, to answer your feedback question. That's one of those things I didn't understand about what critics have been raving about. This car doesn't have much of it. It's steering is electric for one, and very light on the FR-S. The tires are mush, which doesn't help at all. And the suspension, particularly the rear, is made to roll a bit...that's the very recipe of how to effectively separate a driver from the road.

Yes, the car does dart in and out of turns. Yes, the steering is fast and responsive. But communicative? Absolutely not. The BR-Z is better in the feedback regard, because it's steering is noticeably tighter than the FR-S as its suspension. But still, electric steering and low-grade tires will diminish feedback tremendously. If you haven't driven a car with electric steering, try it out for an extended period of time. You won't feel any bumps or dips transition to the steering wheel. In our Zs, if a road is poorly grooved, you can feel the wheel tugging left or right...in the Scion, the car will attempt to follow the grooves...but the steering wheel is dead center and you have no idea what's going on with the wheels. The feeling is more pronounced when it's wet, driving through a puddle won't disturb the steering wheel at all.

I believe I covered that in the review, but I hope it's clearer here. And yes, the review was meant to be a bit harsh. I'm a pretty harsh guy when it comes to cars. The review of the Z won't be so nice, even though I own one and I do love it.

[lemon-fresh]

Originally Posted by AlphaSnacks

The writer is me.


I believe I covered that in the review, but I hope it's clearer here. And yes, the review was meant to be a bit harsh. I'm a pretty harsh guy when it comes to cars. The review of the Z won't be so nice, even though I own one and I do love it.

Just make sure to constantly compare it to the mustang gt and brz for maximum controversy (clicks).

[DR_]

While the website looks professional your writing doesn't. There is way too much opinion which discredits your review.

[binary0x01]

Originally Posted by DR_

While the website looks professional your writing doesn't. There is way too much opinion which discredits your review.

I don't think it discredits the review, it just makes it a more entertaining read.

The car mags do it in a much more subtle way, but ultimately you will hear things like "we think that..." "it would be great if.." etc etc etc... which are all opinionated statements but done so in a more discrete fashion, not to my liking to be honest because if you're going to say something, say it.

PS: A review without opinions cannot be; it would be like reviewing a movie based on the actors and directors/producers without seeing the movie...

[Rui Z]

Website looks professional. Way too much 370Z talk when the review is supposed to be about another car. The title should have read 370Z vs FR-S with the amount of 370Z material in it.

[AlphaSnacks]

Originally Posted by DR_

While the website looks professional your writing doesn't. There is way too much opinion which discredits your review.

I'm not entirely sure you're familiar with what a review is supposed to consist of.

It's 90% objective, 10% fact. The facts were mentioned, the rest of it is how I feel about those facts. Opinion is precisely what a review is.

Originally Posted by Rui Z

Website looks professional. Way too much 370Z talk when the review is supposed to be about another car. The title should have read 370Z vs FR-S with the amount of 370Z material in it.

Yeah, I suppose there is a bit too much 370 talk in it. But it was meant to be more of a point of reference in some aspects. I would've felt the same way about the FR-S even if I didn't own a Z. Heck, back when Mazda revealed the RX8, I dislike the thing and I wasn't a Z owner at the time.

The FR-S actually reminds me quite a bit of the Mazda, from power to balance. Quite frankly when it came down to cars in that segment, I've always preferred the S2000 over anything, and I still do. Can't forget the Z4M, either.

But, I am very aware of what the aftermarket is contributing and I've come across some really superb E-85 tunes for these cars that make 40WHP with just a tune - it totally changes the character of the car. There is no conversion required, as the engine is capable of running on both standard gasoline and E85. Just a $300 tune, and you've got 40WHP. That's some of the most incredible bang for the buck, and it will be highlighted in a follow up piece to the review. I always try to shine the light on both sides of the field, so discovering this was an extremely pleasant surprise.

[Zoren 370]

I personally agree with the review as felt the same when I test drive the Fr-S.
There is not much bite in it. I want a car that would spank you back yet forgiving.

This car has gotten way over board with a lot of hype(Money put in to it) which I tend to ask WHY? On the 2013 COTY Motor Trend as finalist it was ranked ahead of the McLaren MP4-12C and ZL1 in the 2012 Best Driver's car competition.

Really???? That's the biggest BS I ever read!!!!
If they are rating it based on every average driver with an average income ( who cannot afford the MP4) and with no special sets of driving skills. Maybe I would agree at a certain point.

[SMJane_Again]

To the folks saying that car reviews should be devoid of opinion, perhaps you should read a bit closer. What makes car reviews interesting is due to the opinion formed by the journalists and not in spite of it. To wit: the latest copy of EVO magazine, the eCOTY edition, says this about the BRZ/FR-S (called the Toyota GT86 in Britain): "Sadly, the people's champion-elect, the GT86, is the last car to fall [in the preliminary eliminations]. It's an enjoyable car, but it has a strange turn-in yaw that feels a bit contrived on the road as well as the circuit, and the engine is underwhelming. Ultimately, it simply doesn't have the performance or the quality to sneak through (p. 084)." That quote is 100% subjective, yet it is telling all the same that the GT86 does not cut it as a driver's car in that particular field of cars. You may not agree with that assessment, but guess what? You don't have to! Everyone is entitled to their opinion, some are simply more fortunate to have a larger, more attentive forum to expound. Calling somebody's review "un-professional" because they use their subjective experience to form their opinions is silly, at best.

S.

[LakeShow]

Honestly though being 25-30k, I would go and spend my money on the WRX all day any day. Doesn't even compare. The WRX is just a fantastic all around car out the box and has such great potential.

[UNKNOWN_370]

Originally Posted by AlphaSnacks

The writer is me.

I have no qualms with being honest. Credibility is lost when you're not being yourself and are just part of the hype machine. It's unnerving. I've been a critic for many many years now and PR reps have attempted to swindle me in the past. Cars are something I've loved more than anything, but I've only started writing about them very recently.

Anyways, to answer your feedback question. That's one of those things I didn't understand about what critics have been raving about. This car doesn't have much of it. It's steering is electric for one, and very light on the FR-S. The tires are mush, which doesn't help at all. And the suspension, particularly the rear, is made to roll a bit...that's the very recipe of how to effectively separate a driver from the road.

Yes, the car does dart in and out of turns. Yes, the steering is fast and responsive. But communicative? Absolutely not. The BR-Z is better in the feedback regard, because it's steering is noticeably tighter than the FR-S as its suspension. But still, electric steering and low-grade tires will diminish feedback tremendously. If you haven't driven a car with electric steering, try it out for an extended period of time. You won't feel any bumps or dips transition to the steering wheel. In our Zs, if a road is poorly grooved, you can feel the wheel tugging left or right...in the Scion, the car will attempt to follow the grooves...but the steering wheel is dead center and you have no idea what's going on with the wheels. The feeling is more pronounced when it's wet, driving through a puddle won't disturb the steering wheel at all.

I believe I covered that in the review, but I hope it's clearer here. And yes, the review was meant to be a bit harsh. I'm a pretty harsh guy when it comes to cars. The review of the Z won't be so nice, even though I own one and I do love it.

In this post you made it clearer. Thanks for your explanation and honesty. I personally felt the article was honest. But it's the type of article the "general population" feels is bias. What I like about this article as opposed to NEGATIVE Z articles, is you have pinpointed serious flaws in performance. As with the Z. It's mostly nitpicks in sounds, "wish it woulda had", etc. Z performance is hard to argue against. I know we had some issues with brake cooling, low quality brake fluid and underdeveloped pads, oil issues(mostly corrected),steering lock and the fuel starve issue. I'm not saying these aren't notable issues for discussion. It's just how they are represented when it comes to the z as opposed to status quo brands with more severe issues and they are downplayed in articles as something to deal with due to its performance value. BMW is the perfect example of this. The 07/08/09 3 series and 08/09 1 series were horrendously plagued with devastating issues. Yet, they were one of the best buyrecommendations by most reviewers for those years... :smh: The z outperforms the 135, stock for stock. Hmmm...

You brought it to the table though with the electronic steering case. I feel my Z tramline in rough grooves. And it's true what you say about electronic steering as a whole. NO Real Sports car should have elec-steer. As much as I like the FRS/BRZ looks, I always felt as the reviews were definitely over-hyped. Suggestive advertising doesn't work on me though.

I thought you were the writer but just being cautious. Great write-up.

[Japanjay]

I am going to quote what a blogger posted about choosing a car. " I just want something I can haul *** in!" And the FRS/BRZ just doesnt deliver in that aspect in the slightest.