In a word: "no".

Toyota 86? I thought Hyundai already made a Genesis? :confused:

The Scion kinda = RX8 as far as styling :(

Subaru... see my comment about the Genesis.

I would never trade in my Z for the FR-S. I'd consider it a huge downgrade. I do think it'll be a great little car, but I'm hugely disappointed the production version doesn't look like THIS bad boy:



It had people crowded around it with their mouths open. I don't expect the production version will garner the same response.

370z for a FRS?? You crazy. The 370z will out-handle and overpower the FRS. The crub weight of the production car will be more in the 2800 lbs.

nonono down grade

They've already released production weights and they are under 2800 lbs.

I like the BRZ/FR-S. Cool little car but right now it just doesn't have the power to replace a 370Z. Now if you can get a turbo BRZ pushing 300hp from the factory while still coming in around 2,700 lbs that might be a different story depending on what people are looking for out of the car.

Subaru will not give the brz 300hp from the factory. That will kill the sales of their wrx and sti lines.

I don't think so. They are totally different cars.

If anything it would give WRX STi owners that want a RWD sports car an in-house option instead of jumping ship to a 370Z or something like that. Subie would stand a better chance at retaining those buyers than they would without a powerful version of the BRZ.

Ugly!
 

If I wanted an ugly car I would have gone with a Subaru already.

Doubt it. The AWD/sedan crew would still be hard after them, especially with no Evo.

I would rather go after a late model 180sx or S15 Silvia. Much better power/weight and already has TONS of after market support.

Because some people like to just drive, it is not always about numbers, magazine times, or even RWD. The fun of driving many cars and the experience each one gives is unique and something to enjoy.

Newer turbo I-4's in the FR-S's price range are typically not built to handle big power (ahem.. 1st and 2nd gen Mazdaspeed3s, which would likely walk all over this thing from a roll stock for stock). The small factory turbos cant handle holding high boost at high RPMs and turn a lot of that boost into waste heat or just simple fail.

Of course, you can upgrade them but it takes a decent amount of money to do it right and keep it running good for the long haul, money that you wont get back once invested in the car. I like starting with significant performance (370Z) and a more mature crowd plus then modding a bit to make it even faster.

Plus, I dont like the looks of them, a bit too "high school" for me, although I probably would have loved one back in high school. :tup:

If I had extra money, it would go to an old 240Z or 280Z to stay with the lineage and my money would go into restoring it and adding a nice RB motor to it.

Anyway the FR-S's is suppose to be like a retro of the old school Corolla, even that I don't see any resemblance to it.

The Toyota Corolla didn't have a powerful engine for that time, now the Supra is a different story.

:iagree:

What do you mean NO EVO? I thought mitsu decided the EVO would keep going and only the eclipse would be cancelled?

I don't know about the Eclipse but the EVO is canned for 2013.

Dude? Really... wow! The evo is really a great car. Sux.

Diesel hybrid, very possibly not coming to US

Say what?!?! They dumped the EVO?!?!? That Eclipse better be gone or I will be upset with them...

i just read up on the thread regarding FIed 370zs on the track. if heat issues cant be resolved (for a feasible amount), then this car might be a good option for those that want to track a FIed RWD car. If the turbo versions output is somewhere around 260hp, with a few bolt-ons and a good tune we should be able to see 350hp+ in a lightweight RWD car.

I am not sure if this is a re-post, but:

2013 Scion FR-S First Drive - Motor Trend

Its another tier compared to 370Z. It's like comparing Apples with Oranges.
This, is more like a replacement for those who loves to drive a S13/S14, a lightweight RWD ~200HP car.

Motor Trend wrote
" So how well does all that exhaustive collaborative engineering translate to a near-production, U.S.-spec 2013 Scion FR-S? Let me put it this way: a whole lot of budget-minded sports cars hitting the streets and autocross courses today should be worried- that means you, Honda CR-Z, Mazda RX-8, Hyundai Genesis Coupe, Mazda MX-5, Honda Civic Si, and even the Nissan 370Z."

I hope Scion and motor enthusiasts read that key word "AUTOCROSS".

For some ignorant enthusiasts, they give a car one compliment and heads go crazy with it. Next thing you know every wannabe with a new scion wants to pull up next to a G and Z and rev up there anemic engines.
Its hard when new sporty four bangers come out and you drive an established car like the Z or others that have been doing it concurrently. Everybody suddenly wants a street race. Very corny.

Yep. BRZ is not on the same level as our 370Z

Wonder how much FI kits will cost for this. They might be able to get Z like numbers that way for less than the cost of a Z depending on the FI costs. Of course, they will hit a ceiling that the Z can go past because of our displacement. Either way, never hurts to have more fun cars on the market, even if they are a lower tier. Though you might get a lot more young guys driving semi sports cars like douches though. I would prefer if it was released as a Toyota and not a Scion also.

theres nothing wrong with being in a lower tier....anyone remember seeing the video of the b16 vtec orange austin mini racing ferraris, lambos and etc on a road course? i could care less about how luxurious a sports car is. i bought my 370z to beat on and this is by far the "nicest" and most "luxurious" car ive owned.

:tup:

I dunno. Flow numbers are far better on the FA than the VQ. Only time will tell.

They've already got a mule running 500whp on stock internals (even at the stock compression:eek:) reliably. I'd be willing to bet the FA handles 550whp just as well as well as, if not better than, the VQ.

I added the lower tier comment to appease the Z community, ha. I don't plant o go FI and the car is fast enough for me (for now, I think...) so max HP numbers and FI aren't in my plans, just chiming in my thoughts, though they are ignorant newbie ones. Maybe there will be some FI Scion FRS's smoking me in a few years. Oh well, I'm not a street racer or anything. I still think the Z looks much nicer and I am sure there will be some monstrous Z builds out there as well.

for sure. fun to check out the details on the FA build. They seriously over-ported the engine, sacrificing low end torque in stock form for great flow under boost. Definite nod to either factory support for boost, or support for the aftermarket community...or both


definitely agree the Z looks better. Only time will tell how each motor handles big builds.

If we are 'guessing' I would say the engine can get to 420-440whp on stock block, but for a car that weighs under 3k that will be nice especially if it can all be balanced. Low engine mount, suspension and wider tires and the car could be great.

If the car does come in at 2800 pounds or so. Then mod it up to 300+hp would be a kickin little DD.

If you have 25K to spend and a Z is not a option.
Would you really buy FRS, BRZ over a 2013 Gen coup with 271hp,274tq?

RWD, Affordable, turbo 4 with decent power and probably good MPG. New gen coupe has the right ingredients for sales.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...2&d=1313689955


not to mention dramatically better dynamic in the BRZ...

I'd prefer a japanese engineered car over a korean one.


Similar to how the Supra came with a naturally aspirated motor and a TwinTurbo motor, Toyota/Subaru should have offered a flat-6 engine version for a premium- maybe that would be more on the level of Nissan.

It's not a bad car for 25k MSRP.

Its going to compete (price wise) with the
Miata which is a 167Hp/140Tq 2480lb.
Genesis Coupe 2.0R is 210/223 and 3294lb.
Mustang V6 305/280 and 3453lb.
Camaro V6 323/278 3780lb.
Challenger V6 305/268 3834lb.
RX-8 212/159 3111lb.

Every other 2+2 RWD coupe is more or less by 10%.

Miata is its best challenger imo. Very cheap and very light and an engine with a good selection of aftermarket parts. The other cars may be better for practical purposes because they are bigger but they pay the price in weight.

The engine might flow well, but I can virtually guarantee that the motor wont take 550whp for a long time. Budgets rule and $25k for a new car doesnt usually allow a budget for a super heavy duty bottom end.

It is a good buy for the price range, its just a bit too on the edge of teenage for me.

If I didn't have a 370z, I would definitely buy a FRS. But I already have my 370z which I'm really happy with.

You can scratch the genesis coupe 2.0 from that list. It looks like come 2012. In other words, inside of 6 months. The 2.0 gencoupe will be a 271hp/276lb-tq vehicle and the 3.8 will be a 345hp/290lb-tq vehicle. That means even the 2.0 will be closer to being our competitor than the FRS.
With the engine update they're getting... once they upgrade intake and exhaust/BOV, wastegate and turbo timer.... they will give us stock Z owners something to worry about. (I think? Lol)