The horsepower race has gone nuclear: 2013 GT500

b1adesofcha0s

Just got to offset the performance of the GT500 with some hybrid/electric cars to keep the average mpg balanced across the line.

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m4a1mustang

If the loonie lefties have their way they'll ban hipo cars like the GT500.

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nuTinmuch

I'm probably the looniest of the lefties on the forum and I've never heard anyone talking about banning high performance cars. Usually the discussion revolves around SUVs, family sedans, and the like. Those are the bulk of the market -- not sports cars.

Regardless, the strategy most automakers have used in increasing efficiency has also increased performance. More efficient fuel systems, lighter cars/materials, forced induction over displacement, etc.

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shadoquad

They needed increases in power and efficiency, because the safety hawks have increased vehicle weight by so much.

nuTinmuch

It's possible to have everything with smart engineering.

The BRZ, for example. Or -- in another category all together -- the Hyundai Sonata. It's lighter than our car, yet it's a feature-loaded comfortable family sedan.

Honestly, we just had to put up with a lot of bad design in the 90s and early 2000s. That led to more weight than anything else.

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shadoquad

"Safety measures" didn't make cars lighter. It made them bulkier, less maneuverable, harder to stop. So then braking and handling had to be upgraded to keep up. Engines needed more power to be considered "fast". Then someone noticed that heavier cars with more powerful engines were brutally inefficient, and so FI became the winning move. Even archaic BMW moved into FI performance models.

nuTinmuch

I never said they did, but they were hardly the only thing inflating the weight of cars.

In fact, I'd wager they weren't even the largest factor, especially when you consider the shift in building materials used and the birth of the crumple zone.

A BMW isn't heavy because it is safe, for example, it is heavy because it is designed to be comfortable and quiet. Those design choices have way more of an implication on vehicle weight than the inclusion of something like traction control, ABS, or structure rigidity.

But that is irrelevant. My point is that it is possible to have a safe, relatively efficient, fun car. None of these things have to mean major sacrifices -- they just often do because they are the road of least resistance. But in the modern era, people are pretty demanding, and that isn't good enough anymore. We want it all, and considering the cars released in the last year or two (and a few of them in the pipeline), we're going to get 'em.

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ImportConvert

How do you explain that the 370Z = lighter than 350Z, in lieu of your above statements?

FI is because of the EPA, and has nothing to do with weight. It's a fuel-cheap way to make more power on demand, and would happen regardless of weight fluctuation of the vehicle. It's just an evolution like fuel injection, which is slowly giving way to DI. It's just a "better" way. It can now be integrated with minimal/no lag, and that was what BMW was "waiting" for.

Turbos only make sense. Keep the engine in vacuum and you get great economy and the EPA is happy. Floor it and the car GOES, and the enthusiast is happy.

What's not to like?

Has nothing to do with weight.

Now yes, safety structures DO have weight, but they are more than offset by smarter engineering and advanced materials--harken back to the 350 vs. 370 curb weights even though the 370Z is a LOT more rigid.