Hyundai Genesis to compete with 370Z now?

GZ3 · 02-11-2011, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daisuke149

Well, their 6 speed tranny in the sonata is a new design and quite good (purpose built for simplicity and efficiency)... they didnt have to kidnap people there and were not known as the best tranny designers before.

Their diesel motors are quite amazing too, unfortunately they are mostly only in China.. (they didnt kidnap any diesel engineer's to make those)

Their new hybrid in the sonata is the first to use lithium polymer application.. its actually a really good system and again, they didn't kidnap people.

The thing is. Hyundai has the resources, money and technology to make a reallly good sports car. I just think they want to concentrate on a different market.

Just like, toyota could do it, honda could do it, nissan does it etc.

But honda and toyota don't, they want to concentrate on a different market.

again, I think they could do it, but.. if they assign a smaller budget to it than they could, i'd be here doing what '10anamoly said "foot in mouth"

Atleast Toyota and Honda have a rich heritage in performance, as does Nissan...Hyundai on the other hand is a new comer. I'm not putting them down in any way, am an enthusiast first and foremost, and you points are well taken, but i feel that they are still JV in the performance scene

Shamu · 02-11-2011, 12:46 PM

I dont think anyone is not agreeing that Hyundai makes a decent value product. Aside from terrible Hyundai resale values , which do add to total cost of ownership, its a fairly decent car in the econo box market. But even FWD MazdaSpeed 3 beats this car out in terms of handling and cost effectiveness which is sort of embarrassing for Hyundai. The Mazda is cheaper. performs better and has more room and has better resale values. About the only thing I think Hyundai has is looks hence my original statement about pigs in lipstick applies pretty well.

Give Hyundai another decade and they might get in realm of well built premium cars. Which might include a Lexus competitor. They are a big company with expanding operations regionally and are trying to make their mark in more premium segments. I really dont think they are there yet but they will eventually get there. The Equus line is definitely a good start in going after more premium segment dominated by Lexus and Infiniti. I sat in one at Pebble Beach Concours and it was ugly looking beast of a 4 door but it was nicely made.

And hey maybe someday there will be several race tracks, sports car culture, in Korea. ...probably not LOL! Japanese still have advantage of a big sports car market, motorsports culture , etc.

Lug · 02-11-2011, 02:39 PM

Datsun's were junk.....until the 240Z
Toyota was junk ........until the Supra
Mazda was junk.......until the RX-7
Hyundai was junk......until the 5.0l Genesis?????????

Shamu · 02-12-2011, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lug

Datsun's were junk.....until the 240Z
Toyota was junk ........until the Supra
Mazda was junk.......until the RX-7
Hyundai was junk......until the 5.0l Genesis?????????

Your history is a little off. And you forgot Honda.

Honda entered F1 racing in 1964. Their engines forever have benefitted from their development of high revving high HP race motors.

YouTube - Honada - The Powerof Dreams - Honda Vintage F1

Toyota GT2000 in 1967

Far before Z came on the scene Fairlady Roadster was very popular and winning race car in the 60s. Bob Sharp made fair lady roadster famous in motorsports back in 1967 by winning SCCA national championship! Japanese directors valued motorsports as an extension of their company.

All the major Japanese car makers have had factory motorsports divisions that influence car design. Hyundai/Kia motors haven't had internal motorsports programs nor have they had a president that fully embraces factory race cars. All major Japanese companies were driven to learn from racing and they used much of their racing development in product design.

hyundai/Kia motors have invested in large design center in California over past 10 years. Their huge boost has been from US engineers working on better designs. They are getting there but can't go head to head yet with well developed Japaese cars with tons invested in sports car segment.

Nissan/Datsun USA in SCCA Competition

Japanese car makers have long history making sports cars. They also have lots of experience racing

dad · 02-12-2011, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamu

I dont think anyone is not agreeing that Hyundai makes a decent value product. Aside from terrible Hyundai resale values , which do add to total cost of ownership, its a fairly decent car in the econo box market. But even FWD MazdaSpeed 3 beats this car out in terms of handling and cost effectiveness which is sort of embarrassing for Hyundai. The Mazda is cheaper. performs better and has more room and has better resale values. About the only thing I think Hyundai has is looks hence my original statement about pigs in lipstick applies pretty well.

Give Hyundai another decade and they might get in realm of well built premium cars. Which might include a Lexus competitor. They are a big company with expanding operations regionally and are trying to make their mark in more premium segments. I really dont think they are there yet but they will eventually get there. The Equus line is definitely a good start in going after more premium segment dominated by Lexus and Infiniti. I sat in one at Pebble Beach Concours and it was ugly looking beast of a 4 door but it was nicely made.

And hey maybe someday there will be several race tracks, sports car culture, in Korea. ...probably not LOL! Japanese still have advantage of a big sports car market, motorsports culture , etc.

Lexus competitor-The Equus is already rated higher than the Lexus! Resale value is no better than the 370Z!

370Z
New 100% $35,080.00
2 54% $18,943.20
3 43% $15,084.40
4 34% $11,927.20
5 28% $9,822.40

3.8-Genesis
New 100% $33,000.00
2 59% $19,470.00
3 46% $15,180.00
4 37% $12,210.00
5 29% $9,570.00

4.6 Genesis
New 100% $43,000.00
2 59% $25,370.00
3 46% $19,780.00
4 37% $15,910.00
5 29% $12,470.00

ProfessorDave · 02-12-2011, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daisuke149

Well, their 6 speed tranny in the sonata is a new design and quite good (purpose built for simplicity and efficiency)... they didnt have to kidnap people there and were not known as the best tranny designers before.

Their diesel motors are quite amazing too, unfortunately they are mostly only in China.. (they didnt kidnap any diesel engineer's to make those)

Their new hybrid in the sonata is the first to use lithium polymer application.. its actually a really good system and again, they didn't kidnap people.

I had no idea the car industry was involved in this type of crime! I'm calling 60 minutes.

Shamu · 02-12-2011, 08:33 AM

Let me see Kelly Blue Book awarded 2010 370z with high resale award. Didnt ever see the Gen Coupe ever recieve such an award any where? When I checked 5 year residual calculations on the v6 Genesis Coupe they are lower than the 370Z. Hyundais really suck as time goes on. Also look to them to change this car significantly in future which will further tank resale. Hyundai still isn't a mature company in the way they develop and market cars for enthusiast markets. They are still banking on selling decent cars for cheap. You will know Hyundai has arrived when they can sell a car that is better built, has better performance and equal price to the 370z. I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Hyundai made fatal mistake of offering the Genesis in 4 cylinder turbo. Those cheap versions of the cars are going to drag the 6 cylinder car down in the long term.

Nissan is much smarter in leaving same V6 power plant in all 370 models and not putting cheap 4 cylinder option in the Z. But then Nissan has a sports car heritage to uphold while Hyundai just wants to sell you a cheap sporty car.

Just put yourself in shoes of a buyer of a used sports car in 5 years. You really going to desire a used hyundai over a 370z? Look at a 5 year old Hyundai sometime. They ain't pretty! Sorta of the toothless crack whores of the used car market,

Just look at real sales of these cars used. Genesis coupe sellers aren't getting what resale analytics indicate.

sonic370 · 02-12-2011, 10:48 AM

Won't don't you tell us how you really feel! But I do agree

daisuke149 · 02-12-2011, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamu

Let me see Kelly Blue Book awarded 2010 370z with high resale award. Didnt ever see the Gen Coupe ever recieve such an award any where? When I checked 5 year residual calculations on the v6 Genesis Coupe they are lower than the 370Z. Hyundais really suck as time goes on. Also look to them to change this car significantly in future which will further tank resale. Hyundai still isn't a mature company in the way they develop and market cars for enthusiast markets. They are still banking on selling decent cars for cheap. You will know Hyundai has arrived when they can sell a car that is better built, has better performance and equal price to the 370z. I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Hyundai made fatal mistake of offering the Genesis in 4 cylinder turbo. Those cheap versions of the cars are going to drag the 6 cylinder car down in the long term.

Nissan is much smarter in leaving same V6 power plant in all 370 models and not putting cheap 4 cylinder option in the Z. But then Nissan has a sports car heritage to uphold while Hyundai just wants to sell you a cheap sporty car.

Just put yourself in shoes of a buyer of a used sports car in 5 years. You really going to desire a used hyundai over a 370z? Look at a 5 year old Hyundai sometime. They ain't pretty! Sorta of the toothless crack whores of the used car market,

Just look at real sales of these cars used. Genesis coupe sellers aren't getting what resale analytics indicate.

hey mannn my 5 year old sonata is still in great shape it aint no toothy crack whore grand mama!

but thats cus its an 06 when they were looking alot better than the 05's too!

we purchased it for 21k out the door fullllly loaded. we were offered 9k to trade it in, which isnt bad considering the miles on it.

but yeah, when looking at buying a car, i was not considering a used hyundai.

The main problem i have with used hyundai's is that those who think of them as the cheap econo boxes, take less care of them compared to a lexus, or even a used lexus.

dad · 02-12-2011, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamu

Let me see Kelly Blue Book awarded 2010 370z with high resale award. Didnt ever see the Gen Coupe ever recieve such an award any where? When I checked 5 year residual calculations on the v6 Genesis Coupe they are lower than the 370Z. Hyundais really suck as time goes on. Also look to them to change this car significantly in future which will further tank resale. Hyundai still isn't a mature company in the way they develop and market cars for enthusiast markets. They are still banking on selling decent cars for cheap. You will know Hyundai has arrived when they can sell a car that is better built, has better performance and equal price to the 370z. I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Hyundai made fatal mistake of offering the Genesis in 4 cylinder turbo. Those cheap versions of the cars are going to drag the 6 cylinder car down in the long term.

Nissan is much smarter in leaving same V6 power plant in all 370 models and not putting cheap 4 cylinder option in the Z. But then Nissan has a sports car heritage to uphold while Hyundai just wants to sell you a cheap sporty car.

Just put yourself in shoes of a buyer of a used sports car in 5 years. You really going to desire a used hyundai over a 370z? Look at a 5 year old Hyundai sometime. They ain't pretty! Sorta of the toothless crack whores of the used car market,

Just look at real sales of these cars used. Genesis coupe sellers aren't getting what resale analytics indicate.

The Genesis has only been out since 2008, how did you get 5 years! People buy cars because they like a particular one, not resale value!

CrownR426 · 02-12-2011, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dad

The Genesis has only been out since 2008, how did you get 5 years! People buy cars because they like a particular one, not resale value!

The genesis is definetly a competitor indeed!
But it wouldn't be fair to say the Z.
Probably against the v8 class.
I cannot wait to see how this looks.

IMWEZL · 02-24-2011, 08:03 AM

Hahaha we were talking about this at work when a KATUSA (Korean Augmentee) schooled us on the Korean GT series where race ready Kia Forte's, Chevy Cruze (Daewoo version), and a few other models compete.

Honestly, I was surprised. The event is far from Grassroots. All of the cars where sponsored by big Korean companies. We're trying to get tickets with access to the pit area for the next event.

02-11-2011, 12:46 PM	#47 (permalink)
Shamu A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Nor Cal Posts: 1,059 Drives: 370Z Racecar Rep Power: 19	I dont think anyone is not agreeing that Hyundai makes a decent value product. Aside from terrible Hyundai resale values , which do add to total cost of ownership, its a fairly decent car in the econo box market. But even FWD MazdaSpeed 3 beats this car out in terms of handling and cost effectiveness which is sort of embarrassing for Hyundai. The Mazda is cheaper. performs better and has more room and has better resale values. About the only thing I think Hyundai has is looks hence my original statement about pigs in lipstick applies pretty well. Give Hyundai another decade and they might get in realm of well built premium cars. Which might include a Lexus competitor. They are a big company with expanding operations regionally and are trying to make their mark in more premium segments. I really dont think they are there yet but they will eventually get there. The Equus line is definitely a good start in going after more premium segment dominated by Lexus and Infiniti. I sat in one at Pebble Beach Concours and it was ugly looking beast of a 4 door but it was nicely made. And hey maybe someday there will be several race tracks, sports car culture, in Korea. ...probably not LOL! Japanese still have advantage of a big sports car market, motorsports culture , etc. Last edited by Shamu; 02-11-2011 at 12:49 PM.

02-11-2011, 02:39 PM	#48 (permalink)
Lug A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 1,926 Drives: 2006 350Z Rep Power: 19	Datsun's were junk.....until the 240Z Toyota was junk ........until the Supra Mazda was junk.......until the RX-7 Hyundai was junk......until the 5.0l Genesis????????? __________________ keep Chubbs in your pocket - Chubbs

02-12-2011, 08:33 AM	#52 (permalink)
Shamu A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Nor Cal Posts: 1,059 Drives: 370Z Racecar Rep Power: 19	Let me see Kelly Blue Book awarded 2010 370z with high resale award. Didnt ever see the Gen Coupe ever recieve such an award any where? When I checked 5 year residual calculations on the v6 Genesis Coupe they are lower than the 370Z. Hyundais really suck as time goes on. Also look to them to change this car significantly in future which will further tank resale. Hyundai still isn't a mature company in the way they develop and market cars for enthusiast markets. They are still banking on selling decent cars for cheap. You will know Hyundai has arrived when they can sell a car that is better built, has better performance and equal price to the 370z. I don't see that happening anytime soon. Hyundai made fatal mistake of offering the Genesis in 4 cylinder turbo. Those cheap versions of the cars are going to drag the 6 cylinder car down in the long term. Nissan is much smarter in leaving same V6 power plant in all 370 models and not putting cheap 4 cylinder option in the Z. But then Nissan has a sports car heritage to uphold while Hyundai just wants to sell you a cheap sporty car. Just put yourself in shoes of a buyer of a used sports car in 5 years. You really going to desire a used hyundai over a 370z? Look at a 5 year old Hyundai sometime. They ain't pretty! Sorta of the toothless crack whores of the used car market, Just look at real sales of these cars used. Genesis coupe sellers aren't getting what resale analytics indicate. Last edited by Shamu; 02-12-2011 at 08:44 AM.

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02-12-2011, 10:48 AM	#53 (permalink)
sonic370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2010 Location: Orange Texas Posts: 1,574 Drives: 09 370Z Sports PGK Rep Power: 18	Won't don't you tell us how you really feel! But I do agree

02-24-2011, 08:03 AM	#57 (permalink)
IMWEZL Track Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: HNL Posts: 603 Drives: 370Z/MKVII GTI Rep Power: 17	Hahaha we were talking about this at work when a KATUSA (Korean Augmentee) schooled us on the Korean GT series where race ready Kia Forte's, Chevy Cruze (Daewoo version), and a few other models compete. Honestly, I was surprised. The event is far from Grassroots. All of the cars where sponsored by big Korean companies. We're trying to get tickets with access to the pit area for the next event.