Official '11 Mustang GT vs 370z Thread

[ImportConvert]

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

This is actually the source of a lot of controversy on the Mustang forums. It's largely a misrepresentation of the issue at hand. This article is based on one thread on a Mustang forum with around 3,000 posts in it from around 250 different users. At least 90% of these posts are attributable to select few. The article is very vague and just assumes that these 250 posters account for the "hundreds" of "broken" transmissions, which is not true.

So far we know of one user that actually had a defective transmission, which was replaced. Unfortunately he turned out to be the type of person who would make it his personal crusade to go after Ford because of it.

The rest of the complaints are about clunky shifts, mainly when cold. As anyone who has driven a manual transmission - especially a direct-input or semi-remote style - will tell you, on cold starts the 1-2 and sometimes 2-3 shifts can be a little rough. Anyone who has been on this forum since the early days will remember all the complaints from nubs we would have to respond to because they thought that clunky 1-2 shift was a grind and something was wrong with their transmission.

That's what's going on here. Inexperienced manual transmission drivers are reporting every little clunk they hear or feel and in many cases are misdiagnosing them as "grinds." A clunk is fine. After the transmission warms up it's buttery smooth.

I have 13,000 miles on mine so far and I have not had any issues. I definitely experience a cold shift clunk on the 1-2 over the winter or on chilly mornings, but never a grind or anything truly faulty. I am an experienced driver, though, so I know not to freak out and cry to Ford because the Getrag in my 412 HP car is making a little noise.

As a Z community, we went through these complaints in '09 (remember the infamous Modshack one-liner, "is this your first car?" ), and for the Mustang community they are dealing with the same thing in 2011. The 5.0 has brought on a lot of newer, inexperienced drivers to the Mustang ranks. And it so happens that these nub owners are some of the whiniest I have ever observed on an internet forum.

Why do you think I have 24k+ posts here?

Overall I'd say the Getrag MT-82 is a fine transmission. Would it have been my number one choice? No, I'd have loved to see a beefier T56 in there with a true direct input, but it does seem like the MT82s are holding up to repeated abuse... there are a few 600-700whp cars running the stock transmission without any issues yet.

I think all this is is the 2009 370 6MT saga all over again. You have a few transmissions replaced for bum synchros (it happens) and then a lot of complaints from inexperienced drivers for things that the experienced guys know are normal. The only difference is that the Mustang is getting a lot more exposure because the nubs are more vocal and there are just more Mustangs out there (the MT-82 is used in the V6 and V8 models, so you have to figure at least 25k manual transmission 2011 models have been sold).

Oh, and there are a lot of old-guard Mustang "buy 'murrcan" owners that are just bitching because the transmission is designed by a German company and built in their Communist Chinese factory. I guarantee you if this was a Tremec (Mexico) there'd be far fewer complaints, because most good 'Murrcans have learned to accept that some goods can indeed be built in Mexico and Canada... 'cause we're attached to 'em and can supervise 'em, ya know?

Ford still has tons of issues with their TR6060's in the GT500's. GM evolved the specs for their syncro's in 2 different revisions of the corvette TR6060 (finally going with carbon-lined synchro's). Ford blunders on. They have issues with fixing problems with that transmission IMO.

I thought the MT82 was G2G, though. Seems they might have a slight issue there, as well. It would make me nervous if I were buying a new GT/GT500.

[m4a1mustang]

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Ford still has tons of issues with their TR6060's in the GT500's. GM evolved the specs for their syncro's in 2 different revisions of the corvette TR6060 (finally going with carbon-lined synchro's). Ford blunders on. They have issues with fixing problems with that transmission IMO.

I thought the MT82 was G2G, though. Seems they might have a slight issue there, as well. It would make me nervous if I were buying a new GT/GT500.

I have heard of some GT500 transmission issues. I'm not really sure what is going on there.

I'd say that there's absolutely nothing to worry about with the MT-82 in the GTs as I explained previously. I might be a little cautious about the GT500, because like you said, I have heard of some real issues... probably synchro problems like you mentioned. Of course even then the vast majority of GT500 owners have no problems, so who know's what's really going on.

But to be honest I haven't really stayed abreast of the GT500 because it doesn't really appeal to me. I'd much rather scoop up a Boss or build a Brembo GT the way I want. I'm not a fan of the 5.4L. It certainly is a beefy, reliable motor that has served a number of cars well, but the new 5.0 is just better.

[ImportConvert]

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

I have heard of some GT500 transmission issues. I'm not really sure what is going on there.

I'd say that there's absolutely nothing to worry about with the MT-82 in the GTs as I explained previously. I might be a little cautious about the GT500, because like you said, I have heard of some real issues... probably synchro problems like you mentioned. Of course even then the vast majority of GT500 owners have no problems, so who know's what's really going on.

But to be honest I haven't really stayed abreast of the GT500 because it doesn't really appeal to me. I'd much rather scoop up a Boss or build a Brembo GT the way I want. I'm not a fan of the 5.4L. It certainly is a beefy, reliable motor that has served a number of cars well, but the new 5.0 is just better.

Vast majority or not, if you go to ANY GT500 forum you will find a "Hey, new here, my trans. grinds on 1-2 shifts at high rpm" post in the first 2 pages if not on the first.

You won't find that anywhere else. If it were just whining, the Viper and 'Vette forum would have the same issue. They don't. 'Vette owners are probably the pickest, too, as a whole.

EDIT:

Just tried it. This was on page 2: http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/ind...nd-parts-list/

EDIT #2: Tried it again. Top of page 2 has this: http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...blem-poll.html

Nearly the only times you will find this on the 'vette forum are when people complain about it being notchy when cold (nature of a manual), or are talking about a pre' 2009 car before they revised the synchro's.

I have yet to see it on the Viper forum as I believe the Vipers always spec'ed CF lined synchros, although some of the early '08/'09's have had issues with faulty hydraulics which just needed replacing.

[m4a1mustang]

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Vast majority or not, if you go to ANY GT500 forum you will find a "Hey, new here, my trans. grinds on 1-2 shifts at high rpm" post in the first 2 pages if not on the first.

You won't find that anywhere else. If it were just whining, the Viper and 'Vette forum would have the same issue. They don't. 'Vette owners are probably the pickest, too, as a whole.

EDIT:

Just tried it. This was on page 2: TR-6060 Grind Parts List - Team Shelby

I don't doubt you that there are issues with the GT500. What I'd like to see is some sort of statistical data that shows us what percentage of vehicles actually have a problem... it's really impossible to tell just by looking at an internet forum.

Hell, you could search the Z boards and read about the transmission replacements on the '09 models for bum 5th & 6th gear synchros and think there was some major problem, when in reality it was only an isolated problem.

All I'm bitching about are the illegitimate claims of problems with the MT-82.

[Red__Zed]

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Vast majority or not, if you go to ANY GT500 forum you will find a "Hey, new here, my trans. grinds on 1-2 shifts at high rpm" post in the first 2 pages if not on the first.

You won't find that anywhere else. If it were just whining, the Viper and 'Vette forum would have the same issue. They don't. 'Vette owners are probably the pickest, too, as a whole.

EDIT:

Just tried it. This was on page 2: http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/ind...nd-parts-list/

EDIT #2: Tried it again. Top of page 2 has this: 2010 2011 gt500 1-2 shift problem Poll - SVTPerformance

The only times you will find this on the 'vette forum are when people complain about it being notchy when cold (nature of a manual), or are talking about a pre' 2009 car before they revised the synchro's.

They used to be on every first page of our forums, and from my time on the Vette forums, there were a lot of those posts when the Z06 first came out.

[ImportConvert]

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

They used to be on every first page of our forums, and from my time on the Vette forums, there were a lot of those posts when the Z06 first came out.

Like I said, pre '09. GM fixed the issue to where the 'vette's only grind comes from normal frequency of parts failure, which is to say, any car can have a problem, but it's not the norm.

[Red__Zed]

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Like I said, pre '09. GM fixed the issue to where the 'vette's only grind comes from normal frequency of parts failure, which is to say, any car can have a problem, but it's not the norm.

Yeah, but by the time the car has been out for years, there tend to be less idiots positing up about the driver related problem.


Here is what the discussion looks like when more knowledgeable people talk about the funky cold performance.

Do you remember all the guys trying to lemon law the car due to the trans in the early Z06?

[ImportConvert]

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Yeah, but by the time the car has been out for years, there tend to be less idiots positing up about the driver related problem.


Here is what the discussion looks like when more knowledgeable people talk about the funky cold performance.

Do you remember all the guys trying to lemon law the car due to the trans in the early Z06?

The GT500 has been out for how long now?

Also, how many synchro-revisions for the same transmission has Ford managed? I count...Zero. Even though they have a problem with fully warmed up transmissions.

That is one of the main reasons I abandoned my thoughts about getting a GT500, along with inadequate suspension for the power involved.

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

I caught it after the edit.

I was really surprised about the weight of those mufflers. Wasn't expecting it to hurt so much when it came down and hit me. They weigh 44 lbs a piece.

On the GT!?

Maybe Ford is hearkening back to the fox-body 5.0 and it's exhaust system, lol. Cats are more efficient now, so the only way to get that sense of late 80's heft is with a muffler that means business!

[m4a1mustang]

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Yeah, but by the time the car has been out for years, there tend to be less idiots positing up about the driver related problem.

It usually works like this (Especially for affordable cars like the Z and Mustang):

New model is introduced.

Media raves about said model.

Bunch of nubs buy the car.

Bunch of nubs complain about car.

Media reports on complaints.

Time passes and things die down. Nubs either learn or leave.

Car gets cheap in the used markets, punk kids enter the market and ruin everything.

Rinse and repeat.