Official: 2012 Boss 302

m4a1mustang · 08-13-2010, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

i'd love nissan to give the z the porche rs treatment and make a hardcore race car out of the box, possibly supercharged making about mid 400's hp, stripped and gutted interior, racing seats, roll cage, aerodynamic kit, brake and suspension upgrades, oil cooler, and lightweight carbon fibre body panels weighing around 3000 lbs or so, with a price mid point between the current z and the gtr

My guess is a Z built as you described would well beyond the mid point between the Z and GTR. You're pretty much talking a full on race car which would probably go for $100k or more.

Not to mention they need to build the car to fit SOME specification. What you described is just a race car that could compete in what? Track days?

A better option would be something more like what Ford did with the Boss 302. A track day car that can still be driven around on the street. Maybe a TT or SC tuned to make 450hp out of the box with an aggressive street/track suspension, interior, and not much in the way of creature comforts. That would be something that they could have priced between the base Z and the GTR.

But when you start talking roll cage, carbon fiber panels, etc... the prices skyrocket.

theDreamer · 08-13-2010, 06:51 PM

The issue I see with Nissan is you have a 30k car and an 80k car.
Now Ford does not have anything over 60k currently (Ford GT), but they feel the gap between 30k to 60k nicely. If I want a track ready street car I can get a GT500 or now a Boss 302, but with Nissan you get a good value sports car which needs track work or a super car.

m4a1mustang · 08-13-2010, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

The issue I see with Nissan is you have a 30k car and an 80k car.
Now Ford does not have anything over 60k currently (Ford GT), but they feel the gap between 30k to 60k nicely. If I want a track ready street car I can get a GT500 or now a Boss 302, but with Nissan you get a good value sports car which needs track work or a super car.

Pharmacist · 08-13-2010, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

The issue I see with Nissan is you have a 30k car and an 80k car.
Now Ford does not have anything over 60k currently (Ford GT), but they feel the gap between 30k to 60k nicely. If I want a track ready street car I can get a GT500 or now a Boss 302, but with Nissan you get a good value sports car which needs track work or a super car.

true. if they would have bumped the gt-r a bit higher in price, like 20 or 30 k more, it would have left some breathing room large enough to fit a more upgraded track oriented z. as such, there's not much room to do major upgrades to the z without encroaching onto gtr territory in price and performance.

m4a1mustang · 08-13-2010, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

true. if they would have bumped the gt-r a bit higher in price, like 20 or 30 k more, it would have left some breathing room large enough to fit a more upgraded track oriented z. as such, there's not much room to do major upgrades to the z without encroaching onto gtr territory in price and performance.

Yeah but then they end up ruining the GTR if they bump the price up that much. It's supposed to be the "affordable supercar."

Pharmacist · 08-13-2010, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

My guess is a Z built as you described would well beyond the mid point between the Z and GTR. You're pretty much talking a full on race car which would probably go for $100k or more.

Not to mention they need to build the car to fit SOME specification. What you described is just a race car that could compete in what? Track days?

A better option would be something more like what Ford did with the Boss 302. A track day car that can still be driven around on the street. Maybe a TT or SC tuned to make 450hp out of the box with an aggressive street/track suspension, interior, and not much in the way of creature comforts. That would be something that they could have priced between the base Z and the GTR.

But when you start talking roll cage, carbon fiber panels, etc... the prices skyrocket.

perhaps something like the boxster spyder. basically lightweight racing seats, and a gutted minimalist interior with no a/c or radio. upgraded pads and cross drilled slotted rotors. bigger wheels and wider tires. supercharger and oil cooler. mechanical lsd. and shortersprings/firmer dampers. i'd imagine this ca be done for an extra 15-20k increase in price, and then we'd have a cayman and exige killer.

FL 4Motion · 08-13-2010, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

the problem from nissan's perspective is that the z is their second car in the line up, overshadowed by the gtr which is their main performance vehicle. they will never make the z too fast for fear it may cannibalize gtr sales and make the gtr irrelevant. that's also why chevy will never make a camaro fast enough to encroach on the corvette turf. ditto with porsche's cayman and 911 carrera

Totally agree, it would be a very fine line that Nissan would have to walk to get a more track/aggresively oriented Z produced that slotted in nicely between a "regular" Z and the GTR.

It can be done. like others stated, forget the carbon fiber and the roll cage,, just get the car to around 400-430 bhp (small twin turbo set up would do that the easiest), oil cooler std, clutch type lsd std, aggressive brake pads std, and sell it for around 45K.

I don't think this would cannibalize GTR sales, /\ that car, will never match the performance of a GTR (7:26 'ring time is haulin ***), but it would be competitive against all the cars we constantly compare the Z too. I believe there's room in the Z linup for this. Base, Touring, and tt Nismo basically. If they really went crazy, they could have a tt touring with sport pkg for those that want the power but not the track oriented stuff, but that puts the Z closer to what the 300zxtt was and it died off here in the us so that probably won't happen.

Pharmacist · 08-13-2010, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Yeah but then they end up ruining the GTR if they bump the price up that much. It's supposed to be the "affordable supercar."

it would still be a great bargain and way cheaper than a ferrari or lambo. besides aren't the corvette zr1 and viper acr priced around that range even though they are barely faster than a gtr?

m4a1mustang · 08-13-2010, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

perhaps something like the boxster spyder. basically lightweight racing seats, and a gutted minimalist interior with no a/c or radio. upgraded pads and cross drilled slotted rotors. bigger wheels and wider tires. supercharger and oil cooler. mechanical lsd. and shortersprings/firmer dampers. i'd imagine this ca be done for an extra 15-20k increase in price, and then we'd have a cayman and exige killer.

That makes sense, except I'd keep the radio and A/C because from a sales standpoint you'd want the car to still be desirable for someone who wants a track car for the street that has SOME creature comforts...

But yeah, I'd throw in some light weight seats, manual windows, get rid of what little sound deadening is installed in the base model car, upgrade the brakes, suspension, and engine (and add an oil cooler!!!). I'd say at a ~$60k price point it'd probably work.

The only problem is NISSAN really doesn't have the money... lol. And it's painfully clear that they don't really care in the first place. They'd rather show off their new Leaf.

m4a1mustang · 08-13-2010, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

it would still be a great bargain and way cheaper than a ferrari or lambo. besides aren't the corvette zr1 and viper acr priced around that range even though they are barely faster than a gtr?

I sure as hell wouldn't pay $100k for a GTR. It's not worth it. If I was going to spend that much I'd just get a ZR1... which is much more than barely faster than a GTR!

FL 4Motion · 08-13-2010, 07:31 PM

The GTR doesn't need to be any more expensive, remeber, not matter what the Z gets, the GTR still will have the DCT, awd, crazy good factory brakes, and all the high tech computer gizmos, adjustable suspension etc--our hypothetical Z won't get that stuff. \

It's really two different markets. Remember, the guys shopping for the GTR and also cross shopping, ZR1's, Vipers, GT3's, 911tt's. They're not considering mustang GT's, GT500's, Z's, camaro SS's etc.

As long as our "track Z car" can stay under 55K and stay manual trans and rwd, it won't match the GTR's performance but will come in nicely between the stnd Z and the GTR. I'm thinking a limited production type car, maybe 500 per year or so. Would have to have a numbered plaque too.

FL 4Motion · 08-13-2010, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

I sure as hell wouldn't pay $100k for a GTR. It's not worth it. If I was going to spend that much I'd just get a ZR1... which is much more than barely faster than a GTR!

At 100K, the GTR is still a "worth it", just hope that doesn't happen.

ZRI laps the "ring in 7:25, it's only 1 second faster than the GTR. On a tighter roadcourse, numerous tests have shown that the GTR is faster. In pure staightling acceleration--1/4 mile, standing mile etc, yes the ZR1 is faster, but that's not the main point of the GTR to begin with.

m4a1mustang · 08-13-2010, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL 4Motion

At 100K, the GTR is still a "worth it", just hope that doesn't happen.

ZRI laps the "ring in 7:25, it's only 1 second faster than the GTR. On a tighter roadcourse, numerous tests have shown that the GTR is faster. In pure staightling acceleration--1/4 mile, standing mile etc, yes the ZR1 is faster, but that's not the main point of the GTR to begin with.

Everyone knows NISSAN posted bogus numbers from the 'Ring. They used race slicks and all that jazz with a racing driver.

The ZR1 was all stock driven by one of the GM engineers... lol.

FL 4Motion · 08-13-2010, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Everyone knows NISSAN posted bogus numbers from the 'Ring. They used race slicks and all that jazz.

I think the porsche fanboi's are still throwing out conspiracy theories about that one.

(I hope you were joking, hard to tell sometimes on the interweb).

m4a1mustang · 08-13-2010, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL 4Motion

I think the porsche fanboi's are still throwing out conspiracy theories about that one.

(I hope you were joking, hard to tell sometimes on the interweb).

No, back when the GTR and ZR1 teams were going back and forth on lap times it was revealed that the GTR boys were running full on slicks.

08-13-2010, 06:51 PM	#77 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4210	The issue I see with Nissan is you have a 30k car and an 80k car. Now Ford does not have anything over 60k currently (Ford GT), but they feel the gap between 30k to 60k nicely. If I want a track ready street car I can get a GT500 or now a Boss 302, but with Nissan you get a good value sports car which needs track work or a super car. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

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08-13-2010, 07:31 PM	#86 (permalink)
FL 4Motion A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: FL Posts: 4,776 Drives: Baby Shark Rep Power: 701615	The GTR doesn't need to be any more expensive, remeber, not matter what the Z gets, the GTR still will have the DCT, awd, crazy good factory brakes, and all the high tech computer gizmos, adjustable suspension etc--our hypothetical Z won't get that stuff. \ It's really two different markets. Remember, the guys shopping for the GTR and also cross shopping, ZR1's, Vipers, GT3's, 911tt's. They're not considering mustang GT's, GT500's, Z's, camaro SS's etc. As long as our "track Z car" can stay under 55K and stay manual trans and rwd, it won't match the GTR's performance but will come in nicely between the stnd Z and the GTR. I'm thinking a limited production type car, maybe 500 per year or so. Would have to have a numbered plaque too.