Blasphemy!

03-31-2010, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

how observant! first it was ferrari to phase out manual gearboxes, now lamborghini is joining them. soon, audi will do the same to the r8. bmw will also phase out the manual gearbox in favor of the dual clutch transmission. and then porsche will have the pdk standard on all their cars. aston has already semi-eliminated the manual from their models. mercedes hasn't offered them in years on their sporty cars. a whole bunch of supposedly sporty supposedly driver oriented cars that drive themselves via a computer chip. when it's all said and done if you want to shift your own gears the only way to do that will be to drive a commercial truck. who knows, maybe they too will get dual clutch gearboxes

yeah, no issue at all.

i would personally rather have the pleasure of shifting my own gears even if it means an extra few milliseconds around a track. not like i'm fighting for the F1 championship and every millisecond off the laptime is crucial.

lambo

ferrari

If you are trying to attack me...I seriously suggest you back down right now...

fullmonty · 03-31-2010, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

i would personally rather have the pleasure of shifting my own gears

I have a feeling you do that alot. Its called life. Things change deal with it.

Pharmacist · 03-31-2010, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue660r01

If you are trying to attack me...I seriously suggest you back down right now...

where did i "attack" you? i'm pointing out the consequences of the negative trend towards automated computerized appliance-type automobiles, which you dismiss and take so lightly. and dont go threatening people over the internet, its just lame and pathetic.

fullmonty · 03-31-2010, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

where did i "attack" you? i'm pointing out the consequences of the negative trend towards automated computerized appliance-type automobiles.

This is in your opinion of course

antman22 · 03-31-2010, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

actually the performance difference is not that great. a good driver with a manual gearbox shouldn't lag behind an automated gearbox by more than 1 second per lap or even less. unless you are a race car driver fighting for the championship, a fraction of a second per lap will not be significant.

i agree, for the avg joe, the difference isn't that significant, but these cars start on the track first. in the track, hundredths & tenths, not seconds make the difference.

the technology that comes from the track trickles down to the [rich] avg joe in the italia458's, gallardos, etc. For ferrari or lambo or any other exotic company to continue to make manuals & autos instead of streamlining their efforts into a single system means more cash spent on something that doesn't make them faster on the track.

will the elimination frustrate the public consumer market? sure, for awhile. will that cause them to stop buying them? nope. i'm sure it wasn't an easy decision for each company, but ultimately, they have to pay attention to the dollars and cents of the company and what will be good for them in the future in terms of their racing heritage. technology plays such a huge role in automotives now, so it was just a matter of time before they made the manual inferior.

it could be really amusing if tuning shops start figuring out ways to retrofit future sports cars with a proper shifter and clutch....just some food for thought.

03-31-2010, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

where did i "attack" you? i'm pointing out the consequences of the negative trend towards automated computerized appliance-type automobiles, which you dismiss and take so lightly. and dont go threatening people over the internet, its just lame and pathetic.

So they fact that it INCREASES acceleration and decreases top speed means its shitty? I am not threatening you believe me if I were you would know and I dont resort to e-threats as I find those people a joke. But the fact that you never hit 200+ mph on a track, and you bitchin about the "feel" is pathetic. They want to make the car better on a track...not make people like you who never drive this car complain. Top speed doesnt matter as much on a track compared to handling/acceleration. Whats top speed matter if your car cant get there as fast as others?

I have 6spd...I like it, I like getting a feel of the car but I see what they are trying to do.

Pharmacist · 03-31-2010, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullmonty

I have a feeling you do that alot. Its called life. Things change deal with it.

not sure what you mean that i do it a lot. i have a stick shift, so yeah, i shift gears a lot while driving. yes, things change, but not always for the better. this trend towards automated gearboxes is absolutely pointless and unnecessary. no one who buys these cars goes on to compete in le mans or touring car championships. so it's really not that critical to save those few milliseconds per lap by having an auto transmission. perhaps if ferrari and lambo owners take advanced driving courses, that would shorten their lap times much more than an electronic gearbox. besides, why not simply have both transmissions as options so that people can choose what they like? even if 5% of buyers want a manual tranmission, just make 5% of the cars witha stick shift and everyone goes home happy. no need for the stick shift to join the dinosaurs.

370Zsteve · 03-31-2010, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuszNissan

With Dual clutch transmissions and paddel shifting, I don't see an issue either. It was only a matter of time until manual will be the thing of the past.

Outrage!

fullmonty · 03-31-2010, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

not sure what you mean that i do it a lot. i have a stick shift, so yeah, i shift gears a lot while driving. yes, things change, but not always for the better. this trend towards automated gearboxes is absolutely pointless and unnecessary. no one who buys these cars goes on to compete in le mans or touring car championships. so it's really not that critical to save those few milliseconds per lap by having an auto transmission. perhaps if ferrari and lambo owners take advanced driving courses, that would shorten their lap times much more than an electronic gearbox. besides, why not simply have both transmissions as options so that people can choose what they like? even if 5% of buyers want a manual tranmission, just make 5% of the cars witha stick shift and everyone goes home happy. no need for the stick shift to join the dinosaurs.

Allow me to assume that when you say these cars you are talking sports cars in general and not just the 370Z, because allot of these sports cars are designed to compete in Le Mans and various other motorsports events. It is simply not practical for a manufacturer to design both a manual and automatic transmission for the sale car. Particularly if one is substandard. Automatic transmissions are obviously capable and are proving to be an all around better transmission. I don't understand why you are so change adverse.

370Zsteve · 03-31-2010, 10:45 PM

From what I've read, manuals will be around for awhile. I'm unconcerned, and if they do disappear, then I'll just refurb my Z when the time comes. They'll take my manual from my cold, dead hands!

Pharmacist · 03-31-2010, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antman22

i agree, for the avg joe, the difference isn't that significant, but these cars start on the track first. in the track, hundredths & tenths, not seconds make the difference.

the technology that comes from the track trickles down to the [rich] avg joe in the italia458's, gallardos, etc. For ferrari or lambo or any other exotic company to continue to make manuals & autos instead of streamlining their efforts into a single system means more cash spent on something that doesn't make them faster on the track.

will the elimination frustrate the public consumer market? sure, for awhile. will that cause them to stop buying them? nope. i'm sure it wasn't an easy decision for each company, but ultimately, they have to pay attention to the dollars and cents of the company and what will be good for them in the future in terms of their racing heritage. technology plays such a huge role in automotives now, so it was just a matter of time before they made the manual inferior.

it could be really amusing if tuning shops start figuring out ways to retrofit future sports cars with a proper shifter and clutch....just some food for thought.

actually if i'm not mistaken lamborghinis are entirely developed on the street, not on the track or in race car series. but yeah you make a good point that i did think about, which is the cost of developing 2 different transmissions for a car model. on the other hand however, the manual transmission has evolved very little in the last half a century or so. it is still a very basic mechanical device, so it really shouldn't cost much to develop and manufacture. you're right though, most of the rich playboys who buy these cars just want the latest technology. the problem though is the trickle down effect. almost everything that starts as exotic and high priced technology eventually trickles down to cheaper more affordable cars. it may not be long before you find dual clutch gearboxes in civics and corollas and the like. and then of course you can kiss the manual transmission goodbye.

Pharmacist · 03-31-2010, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullmonty

Allow me to assume that when you say these cars you are talking sports cars in general and not just the 370Z, because allot of these sports cars are designed to compete in Le Mans and various other motorsports events. It is simply not practical for a manufacturer to design both a manual and automatic transmission for the sale car. Particularly if one is substandard. Automatic transmissions are obviously capable and are proving to be an all around better transmission. I don't understand why you are so change adverse.

what i meant was the people who buy them, the corporate executives, actors, rappers, etc.... don't go race in their ferrari enzo or lamborghini gallardo, so the slightly added performance is not that relevant. yes i see your point that it may be impractical and expensive to make two transmissions for the same model. on the other hand, the manual transmission is such a basic mechanical device that is incredibly simple, cheap, and easy to manufacture. so it really shouldn't add too much overhead costs to the car company.

03-31-2010, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

what i meant was the people who buy them, the corporate executives, actors, rappers, etc.... don't go race in their ferrari enzo or lamborghini gallardo, so the slightly added performance is not that relevant.

So you're saying there are no enthusiasts and no people who track their Lambo? That its just rappers and actors that run them? IDK about by you man but by me there are TONS of people who track their Lambos here

370Zsteve · 03-31-2010, 10:55 PM

Pharmacist · 03-31-2010, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue660r01

So they fact that it INCREASES acceleration and decreases top speed means its shitty? I am not threatening you believe me if I were you would know and I dont resort to e-threats as I find those people a joke. But the fact that you never hit 200+ mph on a track, and you bitchin about the "feel" is pathetic. They want to make the car better on a track...not make people like you who never drive this car complain. Top speed doesnt matter as much on a track compared to handling/acceleration. Whats top speed matter if your car cant get there as fast as others?

I have 6spd...I like it, I like getting a feel of the car but I see what they are trying to do.

i didn't say those automated transmissions are shitty, in fact they are wonderful pieces of technology that i admire. what i'm saying is they do not offer the same pleasure and the same driver involvement as a basic manual gearbox. and what does it matter if i'm not driving on a track? driving on the street, going down the highway while banging through the gears can be very fun and pleasurable, even at lower speeds. my point is that they should not eliminate choice. they should offer both options, so that if someone wants the latest high tech go as fast as possible technology, they can get the auto, and if someone wants to have some fun, enjoy a good time, and have some driving pleasure either on the track or around some twisty mountain roads, they can get the manual.

03-31-2010, 10:45 PM	#25 (permalink)
370Zsteve A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Gold Coast CT Posts: 10,599 Drives: 2019 Corvette G.S. Rep Power: 42	From what I've read, manuals will be around for awhile. I'm unconcerned, and if they do disappear, then I'll just refurb my Z when the time comes. They'll take my manual from my cold, dead hands! __________________ SOLD MY Z MARCH 2018 - another Core OG moves on - new ride 2019 Z Corvette Grand Sport - no mods necessary but already have eyes on HFC and intakes LOL IT NEVER ENDS.