My 370Z Feels wrong when making sharp turns

ImportConvert · 01-03-2012, 02:19 AM

Okay, I will explain since people are still asking and wondering about rpm and all that jazz.

When you turn the wheel allllll the way, and you turn at low speed, the rim turns--and the tire turns. The rim turns at a set speed, and so does the tire. However, the inside of the tire is pivoting/turning in a tight radius, while the outside of the tire is describing an arc, and needs to be turning much faster, as it must move to cover more ground on the outside than must the inside....except it's on the same rim, and is the same diameter as the inside of the tire...so it's NOT turning much faster. It's turning at the same speed, axially.

The problem becomes apparent with wide, sticky tires. The wider and stickier, the "worse" it becomes.

The outside of the tire cannot physically perform this action, as it is physically attached to the inside of the tire as tires are a 1-piece affair, and they are both only able to rotate axially at the same speed, yet the outside of the tire is of equal diameter to the inside and MUST! cover more ground during the sharp maneuver.

The inevitable happens. It "skips". This is what you hear and feel. The outside of the tire breaking/gaining traction to keep up with the inside of the tire.

My Z06 does it, your 370Z does it, etc. etc.

The solution is to:
Create a vehicle with narrower tires (sucks).
Create a vehicle with less articulation in the steering components and thus larger turn radius (sucks).
Create a tire that is larger on the outside than the inside in diameter (WTF?).
Not whine about a normal noise that is not indicative of anything being damaged (WIN!).

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

That really shouldn't have anything to do with it and you shouldn't need to be above 1500 rpm to keep the car from stuttering at low speed. The engine has more than enough torque to keep it moving along at 500 rpm.

If you are making a sharp turn in cold weather with summer tires and it feels like the tires are skipping over the pavement... it's because they are. That's just how these compounds of rubber behave when they are below operating temperature.

Not necessarily the whole story here. They are less pliable in the cold and so the skipping is more pronounced in cold weather. See my above post.

Lobo1114 · 01-03-2012, 04:40 PM

Got It. Im a new Z (1 week) owner and did not know this. Thank You all for your great comments. Ill go with Not whine about a normal noise that is not indicative of anything being damaged (WIN!).

m4a1mustang · 01-03-2012, 04:42 PM

If you've never driven on summer tires before, be sure to be very careful with them when it's really cold out. When you first start the car up in the morning when it gets really cold they can be pretty dangerous. Your stopping distance will increase tremendously (almost as if you're on ice) and emergency turning will be nearly impossible until the tires can warm up some. Usually it takes 10-15 minutes of regular driving before the tires are warmed up enough to where you're at really safe levels of grip for emergencies, but even then you need to be careful.

Lobo1114 · 01-03-2012, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

If you've never driven on summer tires before, be sure to be very careful with them when it's really cold out. When you first start the car up in the morning when it gets really cold they can be pretty dangerous. Your stopping distance will increase tremendously (almost as if you're on ice) and emergency turning will be nearly impossible until the tires can warm up some. Usually it takes 10-15 minutes of regular driving before the tires are warmed up enough to where you're at really safe levels of grip for emergencies, but even then you need to be careful.

Thank You. U probably saved my life without knowing bro.

m4a1mustang · 01-03-2012, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobo1114

Thank You. U probably saved my life without knowing bro.

No problem bud.

TreeSemdyZee · 01-03-2012, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

If you've never driven on summer tires before, be sure to be very careful with them when it's really cold out. When you first start the car up in the morning when it gets really cold they can be pretty dangerous. Your stopping distance will increase tremendously (almost as if you're on ice) and emergency turning will be nearly impossible until the tires can warm up some. Usually it takes 10-15 minutes of regular driving before the tires are warmed up enough to where you're at really safe levels of grip for emergencies, but even then you need to be careful.

And DO NOT try to drive the Bridgestones on snow. They WON'T go anywhere. First year I had mine, I had to drive a rental until my snow tires came in. Got mega-stuck.

m4a1mustang · 01-03-2012, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeSemdyZee

And DO NOT try to drive the Bridgestones on snow. They WON'T go anywhere. First year I had mine, I had to drive a rental until my snow tires came in. Got mega-stuck.

True!

TreeSemdyZee · 01-03-2012, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

True!

I thought my driving skills had deteriorated so that I didn't know how to drive on snow. Put snow tires on, now I zip past FWD and AWD cars all day. Of course the people around here can't drive worth a sh**. The sun shining is a major weather event and causes wrecks and slow downs. (Not kidding).

m4a1mustang · 01-03-2012, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeSemdyZee

I thought my driving skills had deteriorated so that I didn't know how to drive on snow. Put snow tires on, now I zip past FWD and AWD cars all day. Of course the people around here can't drive worth a sh**. The sun shining is a major weather event and causes wrecks and slow downs. (Not kidding).

I love snow tires! I got the funniest "wtf?!" looks from Jeep drivers last winter as I was merrily driving along in the snow.

I still prefer to stay in unless I absolutely have to drive, though.

TreeSemdyZee · 01-03-2012, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

I love snow tires! I got the funniest "wtf?!" looks from Jeep drivers last winter as I was merrily driving along in the snow.

I still prefer to stay in unless I absolutely have to drive, though.

Find one that ran off the road and ask if they need help.

m4a1mustang · 01-03-2012, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeSemdyZee

Find one that ran off the road and ask if they need help.

Jsolo · 01-03-2012, 09:51 PM

It was in the mid 20's when I left today. Still have the OE wheels with the RE050a summer tires. No skipping or binding coming out of the garage/driveway. Maybe this phenomenon is something that happens as the tread decreases.

Probably mount the snow wheels this weekend during this last warm spell (chicago).

ImportConvert · 01-04-2012, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

If you've never driven on summer tires before, be sure to be very careful with them when it's really cold out. When you first start the car up in the morning when it gets really cold they can be pretty dangerous. Your stopping distance will increase tremendously (almost as if you're on ice) and emergency turning will be nearly impossible until the tires can warm up some. Usually it takes 10-15 minutes of regular driving before the tires are warmed up enough to where you're at really safe levels of grip for emergencies, but even then you need to be careful.

No kidding. Drove the Z06 today. 43* out based on the external temp. 1st gear was utterly useless. 12" contact patches mean nothing on F1 GEN 2 tires with and LS7 in 43* weather. At about 2000 rpm gently rolling into it I lost traction completely. Short shift to second. Continued. had to back out of it (from about 2500rpm, lol) and just accept that I was NOT going to get ahead of the vehicle I was trying to merge in front of. I felt like such a failure in a 500hp car not able to merge at 50mph (I gave up at about 30mph or so when I saw I was going NOWHERE) in front of a jeep.

I always drive with this kind of thing in mind until I see a 3psi or so increase in the tires. Our TPMS shows us individual tire PSI and it is very useful as a rough diagnostic for when you can play a little.

Oh...sharp turn in a parking-lot at wheel-lock the entire front end was shaking and vibrating and the car resonated with the phenomena OP mentioned. It's normal, even in supercars.

*The girl at Nissan who is working with me told me the 370Z had a TPMS read-out for individual tires. I don't own it yet, so I have not fiddled with it, but I could NOT find it during the test-drive. I doubt it exists "normally", but is there a way to crack it? I know on the mustangs 99-04 you could get them to display engine RPM digitally, ACTUAL oil-pressure, and all that through the Info center on the dash if you followed a procedure. 370Z have anything like that?

Alchemy · 01-04-2012, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

No kidding. Drove the Z06 today. 43* out based on the external temp. 1st gear was utterly useless. 12" contact patches mean nothing on F1 GEN 2 tires with and LS7 in 43* weather. At about 2000 rpm gently rolling into it I lost traction completely. Short shift to second. Continued. had to back out of it (from about 2500rpm, lol) and just accept that I was NOT going to get ahead of the vehicle I was trying to merge in front of. I felt like such a failure in a 500hp car not able to merge at 50mph (I gave up at about 30mph or so when I saw I was going NOWHERE) in front of a jeep.

I always drive with this kind of thing in mind until I see a 3psi or so increase in the tires. Our TPMS shows us individual tire PSI and it is very useful as a rough diagnostic for when you can play a little.

Oh...sharp turn in a parking-lot at wheel-lock the entire front end was shaking and vibrating and the car resonated with the phenomena OP mentioned. It's normal, even in supercars.

*The girl at Nissan who is working with me told me the 370Z had a TPMS read-out for individual tires. I don't own it yet, so I have not fiddled with it, but I could NOT find it during the test-drive. I doubt it exists "normally", but is there a way to crack it? I know on the mustangs 99-04 you could get them to display engine RPM digitally, ACTUAL oil-pressure, and all that through the Info center on the dash if you followed a procedure. 370Z have anything like that?

I have an 09 and it does not have individual read outs for each tire. Not sure if this was changed for later models.

Red__Zed · 01-04-2012, 06:50 AM

Import, only the 350 has the individual readouts. They killed it on the 370

01-03-2012, 04:42 PM	#18 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	If you've never driven on summer tires before, be sure to be very careful with them when it's really cold out. When you first start the car up in the morning when it gets really cold they can be pretty dangerous. Your stopping distance will increase tremendously (almost as if you're on ice) and emergency turning will be nearly impossible until the tires can warm up some. Usually it takes 10-15 minutes of regular driving before the tires are warmed up enough to where you're at really safe levels of grip for emergencies, but even then you need to be careful. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

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01-03-2012, 04:40 PM	#17 (permalink)
Lobo1114 Base Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Glenn Burnie, MD Posts: 114 Drives: Your Mom. LOL Rep Power: 13	Got It. Im a new Z (1 week) owner and did not know this. Thank You all for your great comments. Ill go with Not whine about a normal noise that is not indicative of anything being damaged (WIN!).

01-03-2012, 09:51 PM	#27 (permalink)
Jsolo Track Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: chicago Posts: 783 Drives: '12 G37 6MT Rep Power: 14	It was in the mid 20's when I left today. Still have the OE wheels with the RE050a summer tires. No skipping or binding coming out of the garage/driveway. Maybe this phenomenon is something that happens as the tread decreases. Probably mount the snow wheels this weekend during this last warm spell (chicago).

01-04-2012, 06:50 AM	#30 (permalink)
Red__Zed A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: window seat Posts: 28,940 Drives: Mostly on two wheels Rep Power: 119	Import, only the 350 has the individual readouts. They killed it on the 370