VDC off, but slip light blinks

Pharmacist · 09-29-2009, 01:41 PM

Ok after digging through the user manual, I found some info that may explain a few things, though also raising more questions than it answers.

On page 2-14, it states that the slip indicator light activates when either the VDC (which I assume is mainly concerned with preventing over/understeer) or the traction control (which I assume is mainly about reducing wheelspin during hard acceleration) is activated. It says the light is activated to warn the driver that the vehicle is near its traction limits. On the same page, it says the VDC off light comes on when the VDC off button is pushed, which switches off both VDC AND traction control.

Now on to page 5-27. It talks about VDC using brakes and reducing engine power to keep the car on the steered path i.e. prevent over/understeer. It states that the VDC also uses active brake limited slip (ABLS) to improve traction. It says the ABLS applies brakes to one of the driven wheels if it spins too fast on a slippery surface in order to divert power to the other wheel. This sounds a lot like the traction control system mentioned previously on page 2-14. However, the words "traction control" are never explicitly stated in this section. To make things worse, the manual seems to contradict itself. It further states on page 5-27 that even if the VDC is turned off, the ABLS system remains operational, and if it is activated it will cause the slip indicator light to blink. Note that this contradicts what was mentioned in page 2-14, that the vdc off button turns off both the VDC and traction control. However, it does seem consistent with what I experienced during my drive, with the slip light blinking even though I didn't feel any braking effort on the rear wheels.

Is this an error in the manual, or are traction control and abls different things?

Modshack · 09-29-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

Is this an error in the manual, or are traction control and abls different things?

They are somewhat different. They use the same hardware though in different ways..

Pharmacist · 09-29-2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modshack

They are somewhat different. They use the same hardware though in different ways..

Care to elaborate?

Modshack · 09-29-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

Care to elaborate?

Well...as you get to a brake lock-up situation, the ABS sensors detect this and release the brakes to keep the wheel rolling and maximize braking traction. (this happens very rapidly and is felt in the brake peddle as a pulsation)

Traction control is kinda the opposite...When wheelspin is detected the sensors determine this and the brakes are cycled on rather than off to accomplish essentially the same thing (traction)

Pharmacist · 09-29-2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modshack

Well...as you get to a brake lock-up situation, the ABS sensors detect this and release the brakes to keep the wheel rolling and maximize braking traction. (this happens very rapidly and is felt in the brake peddle as a pulsation)

Traction control is kinda the opposite...When wheelspin is detected the sensors determine this and the brakes are cycled on rather than off to accomplish essentially the same thing (traction)

No no no no no. What you are talking about is ABS (antilock braking system). That is what prevents wheel locking during hard braking on slippery surface. What I meant was ABLS (active brake limited slip) which operates by braking the faster spinning wheel during hard acceleration. Pretty much the same as traction control and electronic limited slip differential and all the other names its given by different car manufacturers. It's described in detail in page 5-27. Which is exactly the cause of confusion since the manual says traction control is turned off with the vdc button in one section but in another section it says abls stays on even if vdc is off.

Yes, I do know that traction control/abls/electronic lsd/etc..... is nothing more than a software program added to the already existing ABS software and hardware. And that's why a sure way to totally kill off traction control in any car is pulling out the abs fuse.

Modshack · 09-29-2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

No no no no no. What I meant was ABLS (active brake limited slip) which operates by braking the faster spinning wheel during hard acceleration. .

That's pretty much what I said. You can call it by any acronym you want.

To test, go out on a dirt lot, turn of VDC and do a clutch dump. That should answer the question.....Report back..

chief_Roka · 09-29-2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

No no no no no. What you are talking about is ABS (antilock braking system). That is what prevents wheel locking during hard braking on slippery surface. What I meant was ABLS (active brake limited slip) which operates by braking the faster spinning wheel during hard acceleration. Pretty much the same as traction control and electronic limited slip differential and all the other names its given by different car manufacturers. It's described in detail in page 5-27. Which is exactly the cause of confusion since the manual says traction control is turned off with the vdc button in one section but in another section it says abls stays on even if vdc is off.

Yes, I do know that traction control/abls/electronic lsd/etc..... is nothing more than a software program added to the already existing ABS software and hardware. And that's why a sure way to totally kill off traction control in any car is pulling out the abs fuse.

Pharmacist... correct me if I'm wrong? But are you saying that VDC can be turned off fully.
And when u turn off VDC you also turn off TCS.... But, TCS never fully shuts off?
So if the 370 feels too much slip? It will automatically reactivate TCS?

G37Sam · 09-29-2009, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief_Roka

Pharmacist... correct me if I'm wrong? But are you saying that VDC can be turned off fully.
And when u turn off VDC you also turn off TCS.... But, TCS never fully shuts off?
So if the 370 feels too much slip? It will automatically reactivate TCS?

Yes, the ABS can be turned off fully, however, AT's still won't be able to brake-launch because they need to find a way to prevent fuel cut. I tried it on my G37. Took out the fuse but still couldn't get the damn thing to brake-launch at 3k rpm or do a burn out on a dry surface.

Modshack · 09-29-2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G37Sam

Yes, the ABS can be turned off fully, however, AT's still won't be able to brake-launch because they need to find a way to prevent fuel cut. I tried it on my G37. Took out the fuse but still couldn't get the damn thing to brake-launch at 3k rpm or do a burn out on a dry surface.

Check the AT launch Vid in post #34.....Looks like wheelspin to me!

Can i rev in Neutral then throw into Drive?

G37Sam · 09-29-2009, 10:30 PM

Thanks for the link modshack, fuel doesn't cut off if you brake-launch till like 1.5-2k rpm. But if you try doing a burnout like this

It won't let you lol

chief_Roka · 09-29-2009, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G37Sam

Yes, the ABS can be turned off fully, however, AT's still won't be able to brake-launch because they need to find a way to prevent fuel cut. I tried it on my G37. Took out the fuse but still couldn't get the damn thing to brake-launch at 3k rpm or do a burn out on a dry surface.

Brake launching in my G35 was not easy. I would get minimal spin most of the time.
Same in my altima 3.5se sedan. But! If ur on slightly uneven pavement n u smash the gas. It will spin like u revvin it up off a manual.
The auto tranny could use more torque. 268/258 is fine for the manual but on the auto it would be nice if was closer to matching the hp. That's why u see mustang and camaro autos doing wheelspins like champs! Weight to tq power is significantly higher.
But the flipside is the don't handle worth a damn n body structure of those cars hinders certain driving capability IMO. So if I had to choose burnin rubber or precision handling. I'll take handling.

spinning the wheels on demand is kool though

omnomz · 10-02-2009, 12:44 AM

I've turned off everything several times pushing the VDC button at the exact perfect timing. usually when the car is cold, ive done it once when the car was warm. the BRAKE light ABS light and slip lights all come on, no ABS or TCS.

Pharmacist · 10-02-2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omnomz

I've turned off everything several times pushing the VDC button at the exact perfect timing. usually when the car is cold, ive done it once when the car was warm. the BRAKE light ABS light and slip lights all come on, no ABS or TCS.

Huh? Turning off the TCS has nothing to do with the car's temperature. And turning off ABS is not possible in this car or any other car I know off unless you pull the fuse. Also, brake light should not come on. It seems that you have a malfunction of some sort in the brake hydraulics or electric system.

import111 · 10-02-2009, 09:30 AM

I have done the same thing omnomz has done. He is right about the ABS light coming on with the VDC light if you hit the VDC button at the right time...however I never did test it to see if ABS was actually dissabled.

pgrmstr · 10-02-2009, 11:04 AM

I went through this question myself some time back and what I was able to figure out is with VDC off, traction control and vdc are disabled.

You can do burnouts, power slides, and anything else you want. I have the sport so have the vLSD. The ABLS light comes on occasionally, but I think its only when one wheel starts to spin before the vLSD locks up....whether it applies brake or not I couldn't really tell, but I think its only momentary until the LSD locks and then you can continue to power slide all the way to rev limit...

I'm pretty sure I only experience it in low traction conditions such as rain and have not noticed it during dry conditions...

09-29-2009, 10:30 PM	#25 (permalink)
G37Sam A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Dubai, UAE Posts: 1,507 Drives: RB'd G37 Rep Power: 20	Thanks for the link modshack, fuel doesn't cut off if you brake-launch till like 1.5-2k rpm. But if you try doing a burnout like this It won't let you lol __________________ '14 Viper GTS '08 RB'd G37S - Sold

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09-29-2009, 01:41 PM	#16 (permalink)
Pharmacist A True Z Fanatic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 1,249 Drives: 09 370z Sport 6MT Rep Power: 17	Ok after digging through the user manual, I found some info that may explain a few things, though also raising more questions than it answers. On page 2-14, it states that the slip indicator light activates when either the VDC (which I assume is mainly concerned with preventing over/understeer) or the traction control (which I assume is mainly about reducing wheelspin during hard acceleration) is activated. It says the light is activated to warn the driver that the vehicle is near its traction limits. On the same page, it says the VDC off light comes on when the VDC off button is pushed, which switches off both VDC AND traction control. Now on to page 5-27. It talks about VDC using brakes and reducing engine power to keep the car on the steered path i.e. prevent over/understeer. It states that the VDC also uses active brake limited slip (ABLS) to improve traction. It says the ABLS applies brakes to one of the driven wheels if it spins too fast on a slippery surface in order to divert power to the other wheel. This sounds a lot like the traction control system mentioned previously on page 2-14. However, the words "traction control" are never explicitly stated in this section. To make things worse, the manual seems to contradict itself. It further states on page 5-27 that even if the VDC is turned off, the ABLS system remains operational, and if it is activated it will cause the slip indicator light to blink. Note that this contradicts what was mentioned in page 2-14, that the vdc off button turns off both the VDC and traction control. However, it does seem consistent with what I experienced during my drive, with the slip light blinking even though I didn't feel any braking effort on the rear wheels. Is this an error in the manual, or are traction control and abls different things?

10-02-2009, 12:44 AM	#27 (permalink)
omnomz Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Tyler, Texas Posts: 30 Drives: 09 Nissan 370Z M6 Rep Power: 16	I've turned off everything several times pushing the VDC button at the exact perfect timing. usually when the car is cold, ive done it once when the car was warm. the BRAKE light ABS light and slip lights all come on, no ABS or TCS.

10-02-2009, 09:30 AM	#29 (permalink)
import111 Track Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ. Posts: 622 Drives: 09 Nissan 370Z Rep Power: 191	I have done the same thing omnomz has done. He is right about the ABS light coming on with the VDC light if you hit the VDC button at the right time...however I never did test it to see if ABS was actually dissabled.

10-02-2009, 11:04 AM	#30 (permalink)
pgrmstr Base Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: PA Posts: 131 Drives: 09 BS 370z Sport 6MT Rep Power: 16	I went through this question myself some time back and what I was able to figure out is with VDC off, traction control and vdc are disabled. You can do burnouts, power slides, and anything else you want. I have the sport so have the vLSD. The ABLS light comes on occasionally, but I think its only when one wheel starts to spin before the vLSD locks up....whether it applies brake or not I couldn't really tell, but I think its only momentary until the LSD locks and then you can continue to power slide all the way to rev limit... I'm pretty sure I only experience it in low traction conditions such as rain and have not noticed it during dry conditions...