flat torque?

vehl · 08-19-2009, 09:43 AM

after having the car for just over a month and 3k km, I was wondering if all the 370Zs have a 'flat torque' band that doesnt 'ramp up' noticably anywhere between 1k and 7k rpm? this lack of ramping up has given me an impression the car is missing sth or could be faster..

is it me or isnt there supposed to be a certain rpm where the variable timing or lift or whatever changes the way the engine works and gets more power?

Modshack · 08-19-2009, 10:00 AM

The curve is extremely flat. VVEL does not operate like V-tec.. More progressive

kannibul · 08-19-2009, 10:09 AM

As modshack said, plus the ECU is adjusting the valve train to get that flat curve.

For the most part, the ECU controls the output of the engine by adjusting the valves, more-so than the throttle body.

JoeD · 08-19-2009, 10:28 AM

So you don't like the flat torque-curve?

Here is what you can do...whenever you're accelerating in-gear, hold it at a very light throttle load until you hit an arbitrary VVEL engagement-point of your desire. Say that point is 5000 RPM...as soon as you cross 5K, nail the throttle. Instant VTEC-like rush that pins you in the seat from 5000 to 7500 RPM.

Makes driving a lot more exciting.

vehl · 08-19-2009, 07:03 PM

^ i guess im just not used to such a flat torque band... friend who drives a 35HR drove my car and brought up the fact that it doesnt kick at high rpms like his HR does.. so i was just worried i got a lemon.
i havent raced an HR so i wouldnt know. i think the 35HR cabin is quite alot more vocal too, probly due to less insulation. but overall, he found the 370 more civilised and the gearbox much lighter for start stops.

Red370 · 08-19-2009, 07:21 PM

doesnt "kick" like an HR? your friend is nuts, Z34>Z33
Jealousy is a motherfu@%er. The 370 is superior in every aspect. I traded my G35 for it, I would know.

zilent_jay · 08-21-2009, 04:45 PM

I took my buddy for a ride who has an HR... he said the same thing about the lack of kick and how much smoother it is... it's not jealousy, it's making an observation and making a factually sound statement. The engine produces a very flat torque "curve". When you're WOT you never feel a surge. It's smooth all the way to redline. Cams are most efficient at a given RPM. When you can adjust the lift/duration on the fly, you can have that same efficiency across the band. While it does give the impression of being slow... there is much more area under the curve.

We ran from a dig and roll, beat him both ways. Funny cuz my DE was faster than both of our cars (mild mods).

From a driver perspective, I like the older chassis better, but that's just me.

JoeD · 08-21-2009, 05:02 PM

Does anyone have dyno of an HR 350Z and a 370Z rendered on the same chart?

zilent_jay · 08-21-2009, 05:53 PM

Same dyno

JoeD · 08-21-2009, 06:05 PM

Nice find.

I don't see the ramping up of torque or "kick" that some of you speak of. The curves of both engines track almost identically, with the 370Z's greatest advantage between 7000-7500 RPM.

edeeZee · 08-21-2009, 06:09 PM

But ya can't beat Honda twin cam VTEC baby!! VTEC kicks hard...well at least on my EG H22 hatchback it did. I used to smoke SS Camaros with bolt ons.

shabarivas · 08-21-2009, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red370

doesnt "kick" like an HR? your friend is nuts, Z34>Z33
Jealousy is a motherfu@%er. The 370 is superior in every aspect. I traded my G35 for it, I would know.

Umm wow... you are one quick one to defend the 370.. it can do no harm in your eyes eh... so was your G35 a HR? I dont think so... I used to have one as well...

GTRFAN · 08-22-2009, 12:55 AM

A flatter curve is just a characteristic of a naturally aspirated engine. It'll keep making power all the way to redline, but not in a massive rush type of way. If you want more of a rush in power and a steeper curve, you'll need a turbo.

I think the older GTR's are the best bang for your buck as far as making power and giving you a real kick in the back of the seat feel.
Check out my mate Bens old R33 GTR dyno run on pump fuel. This is kW and Nm too not pony power (HP)

Brazilbro · 08-22-2009, 02:26 AM

Ya those Older GT-R's are nice, I've been thinking about buying one and turning it into a track car. You can find them all day for 19-20k

vehl · 08-25-2009, 02:24 AM

interesting.. i havent raced his HR but ok im feeling much better now that there's general knowledge that the 370 IS an improvement over the 35HR.

08-19-2009, 09:43 AM	#1 (permalink)
vehl Base Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: asia Posts: 140 Drives: 370z PW/ GTI Rep Power: 16	flat torque? after having the car for just over a month and 3k km, I was wondering if all the 370Zs have a 'flat torque' band that doesnt 'ramp up' noticably anywhere between 1k and 7k rpm? this lack of ramping up has given me an impression the car is missing sth or could be faster.. is it me or isnt there supposed to be a certain rpm where the variable timing or lift or whatever changes the way the engine works and gets more power?

08-19-2009, 10:00 AM	#2 (permalink)
Modshack A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Greenville NC Posts: 2,883 Drives: 370Z Sport Rep Power: 976	The curve is extremely flat. VVEL does not operate like V-tec.. More progressive __________________ Steal my car! (SOLD)...Now Porsche Cayman S Oil Cooler DIY: Here!

08-19-2009, 07:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
Red370 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kaiserslautern, Germany Posts: 4,391 Drives: your mom to church Rep Power: 295	doesnt "kick" like an HR? your friend is nuts, Z34>Z33 Jealousy is a motherfu@%er. The 370 is superior in every aspect. I traded my G35 for it, I would know. Last edited by Red370; 08-19-2009 at 07:24 PM.

08-21-2009, 04:45 PM	#7 (permalink)
zilent_jay Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: OKC Posts: 96 Drives: 2009 MB Base Sport Rep Power: 15	I took my buddy for a ride who has an HR... he said the same thing about the lack of kick and how much smoother it is... it's not jealousy, it's making an observation and making a factually sound statement. The engine produces a very flat torque "curve". When you're WOT you never feel a surge. It's smooth all the way to redline. Cams are most efficient at a given RPM. When you can adjust the lift/duration on the fly, you can have that same efficiency across the band. While it does give the impression of being slow... there is much more area under the curve. We ran from a dig and roll, beat him both ways. Funny cuz my DE was faster than both of our cars (mild mods). From a driver perspective, I like the older chassis better, but that's just me. Last edited by zilent_jay; 08-21-2009 at 04:55 PM.

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08-19-2009, 10:09 AM	#3 (permalink)
kannibul A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Jenks, OK Posts: 2,281 Drives: 370z Touring/Sport Rep Power: 266	As modshack said, plus the ECU is adjusting the valve train to get that flat curve. For the most part, the ECU controls the output of the engine by adjusting the valves, more-so than the throttle body.

08-19-2009, 10:28 AM	#4 (permalink)
JoeD Banned Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: CA Posts: 495 Drives: Z Rep Power: 0	So you don't like the flat torque-curve? Here is what you can do...whenever you're accelerating in-gear, hold it at a very light throttle load until you hit an arbitrary VVEL engagement-point of your desire. Say that point is 5000 RPM...as soon as you cross 5K, nail the throttle. Instant VTEC-like rush that pins you in the seat from 5000 to 7500 RPM. Makes driving a lot more exciting.

08-19-2009, 07:03 PM	#5 (permalink)
vehl Base Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: asia Posts: 140 Drives: 370z PW/ GTI Rep Power: 16	^ i guess im just not used to such a flat torque band... friend who drives a 35HR drove my car and brought up the fact that it doesnt kick at high rpms like his HR does.. so i was just worried i got a lemon. i havent raced an HR so i wouldnt know. i think the 35HR cabin is quite alot more vocal too, probly due to less insulation. but overall, he found the 370 more civilised and the gearbox much lighter for start stops.

08-21-2009, 05:02 PM	#8 (permalink)
JoeD Banned Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: CA Posts: 495 Drives: Z Rep Power: 0	Does anyone have dyno of an HR 350Z and a 370Z rendered on the same chart?

08-21-2009, 05:53 PM	#9 (permalink)
zilent_jay Base Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: OKC Posts: 96 Drives: 2009 MB Base Sport Rep Power: 15	Same dyno

08-21-2009, 06:05 PM	#10 (permalink)
JoeD Banned Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: CA Posts: 495 Drives: Z Rep Power: 0	Nice find. I don't see the ramping up of torque or "kick" that some of you speak of. The curves of both engines track almost identically, with the 370Z's greatest advantage between 7000-7500 RPM.

08-21-2009, 06:09 PM	#11 (permalink)
edeeZee Track Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: s. cali, los angeles Posts: 627 Drives: 09 370z plat 6 speed Rep Power: 265	But ya can't beat Honda twin cam VTEC baby!! VTEC kicks hard...well at least on my EG H22 hatchback it did. I used to smoke SS Camaros with bolt ons.

08-22-2009, 02:26 AM	#14 (permalink)
Brazilbro A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 1,131 Drives: Juke/240Z Rep Power: 848	Ya those Older GT-R's are nice, I've been thinking about buying one and turning it into a track car. You can find them all day for 19-20k

08-25-2009, 02:24 AM	#15 (permalink)
vehl Base Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: asia Posts: 140 Drives: 370z PW/ GTI Rep Power: 16	interesting.. i havent raced his HR but ok im feeling much better now that there's general knowledge that the 370 IS an improvement over the 35HR.