I am real curious as to why....

355890 · 08-05-2009, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCZ

No, you're right. The more expensive the car, the more owners are willing/able to pay for parts. However, because someone is willing/able to pay for something, it alone does not justify an inflated price. Just because I understand, it doesn't mean I agree. I think paying 5k for a piece of pipe is the most ridiculous.

As far as the Mustang thing goes, I agree, but I'm keeping myself out of this one.

I agree 110%

need4speed · 08-06-2009, 01:47 AM

I'm not a mechanic. But I have shelled out a lot of money on mod parts for cars over the years. N wat I can tell u is this much.
NO THEY DON'T FIGURE since u bought a 30k car u can afford a lil more. That's not it at all. N no u
Dual intakes don't call for that much of a premium. N its not cuz nissan is almost an infiniti. Lol. Lol
You people are funny for real.
The Z is the only "2 seat hard top true sports coupe". Let me stress that again for the purists, mechanical engineers n others that luv to argue. The Z is the only 2 seat hard top true sports car in a 30 to 40k price range. 2+2 are gt cars. Convertibles have a different driving dynamic from coupes. So cars that we pretend to be competition like bmw Z4 n Z8, Honda S2000, mazda rx8 pontiac solstice. All either fall into the gt performance meaning 2+2 or gt roadsters which mean topless sports.
Again this is a whole seperate driving experience altogether.
NOW, because the Z has no competition in within 5k of its top price. The bimmer starts at 45k n the cayman at 60k and lotus 50k. this leaves NISSAN the sole proprietor of the "AFFORDABLE TRUE SPORTS CAR." the whole 900 to 600 in 10 years is bogus. I seen body kits go from 1600 to 400 in 5 years.
I seen intakes go from 399 to 199 in 1 year.
The Z can afford to jack prices n hold out on dropping prices cuz there is no competition. See how the car magazines struggle to find a real comparo car. They can't. So they use the cayman and mustang as comparison cars.
Totally unfair. The porsche costs 35k to build. The Z costs right around 18k to build.(before options) Its gonna be more refined. The mustang is a total gt. Not fair.
Anyway... point is. The exclusivity of the car type brings up cost and its bogus imho.
But ur stuck between a rock n a hardplace. If u holdout? Aftermarket won't produce many parts. If u buy u get more parts for cars. 1st year modders get raped. Cuz they have to pay forinitial r&d cost recovery. Once that's paid off. Prices go down.
I got chewed out here by a couple of fruits one time for saying 1st year mods are way to expensive n the companies rape your pockets. Lol. Guys were crying like they own stillen stock or somethin. I modded 6 cars and the price trend is the same. High on 1st year. Just like defects on cars are highest on 1st year models. This is a fact. You can use kelly blue book, true delta or any car mag. They will tell u 1st year buyers are guinea pigs to the function n reliabilty of the cars. If u buy a 1st year car? Its best to buy in the 3rd quarter...
My question is... do u guys really race? Or do u mod to say I did it First? Or is it u just wanna be text book racers that picked up a lot of mod terminology then come on here n make people think u can drive those cars you own by having a slight edge on technical terminologies n crap.
More important than mods is having the skill to control a car like this
Hone the skill

Plasmaball · 08-06-2009, 01:51 AM

A person can own an expensive car and still be cheap.

bullitt5897 · 08-06-2009, 09:11 AM

As a rule of thumb that I use most manufacturers and some retailers build in 20-35% of profit in any product at a minimum. This is from my experiences... Granted if you get quoted that say (hypothetically speaking) for instance KW V3's are $2100.00 retail I am pretty sure you can haggle them down to $1800 and even $1700 if your good!!! its all in the deal. I bought my KW V3's for my s2000 for $1650 shipped and they retailed for $2100+... so the money is there its just whether or not you can work a relationship and a good deal. the only way these retailers will survive is good old fashion word of mouth. I know this for a fact... Get a good deal and a customer will speak loudly about what a great deal they got and then it becomes a numbers game... quantity over quality!

semtex · 08-06-2009, 09:38 AM

You know guys, there is an upside to 'high' prices, however one chooses to define that. High prices provide an incentive to produce quality parts. Think about it. Imagine that you're in the exhaust manufacturing business, and market research indicates that 370Z owners are cheapskates who are, on average, only willing to pay, say, $50 for an exhaust. What incentive do you have to actually put the resources into producing a quality exhaust? In fact, you probably wouldn't even be bothered to produce any exhaust for this car. It's just not a market worth tapping into. Now imagine that 370Z owners are, on average, willing to dish out $1500 to upgrade their exhausts, and you happen to know that each exhaust will only cost you about $600 to produce (incl. development costs, material, labor, marketing, etc.). In other words, there's a real profit opportunity here. Suddenly, there's an incentive to make an exhaust. And not just any exhaust -- there's an incentive to make a high-quality exhaust, because you know that with margins like that, there are bound to be others who want to get in on the action for a slice of the pie. i.e., there will be competition, and competition tends to drive quality.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that profit, 'excessive' as some may find it to be, is what drives production and the availability of goods and services. Indeed, the whole problem with socialism (IMO) is that it fails to recognize that without profit-opportunity, there is little motivation to be productive.

Another upside is that high prices have a natural poseur-prohibitive effect. But I'll leave that one for another day.

Greg · 08-06-2009, 09:42 AM

None of this is anything new...Who here remembers the days of SR5's, Bugs, BBS and Webers not to mention wink mirrors.

zZSportZz · 08-06-2009, 11:33 AM

I think people are mixing overhead expenses and profit together. Everything a company sells has overhead attached to it as well as profit. If a manufactuer charges $1000 dollars for an exhaust and is costs them $500 dollars to make it...is that 100% profit? No..unless they have zero overhead. They have to pay the bills: 1)salaries, 2) utililities, 3) leased spaces, 4) R&D, 5)benefits for employees, etc..the list goes on and on and on. These are all attached to the sale of any product. Its just the cost of doing business. I work for a government contractor..I am a "product" to the government. They pay my company TWICE what I make.....and yet my company only see an 11% profit on my employment as a direct charge to the government as specified by the contract. The rest goes towards benefits, my office space, computer...everything I need to function.

This is why online wholesalers can sell stuff so much cheaper than Best Buy....they have almost no overhead to recoup.

Ryan@Forged · 08-06-2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zZSportZz

I think people are mixing overhead expenses and profit together. Everything a company sells has overhead attached to it as well as profit. If a manufactuer charges $1000 dollars for an exhaust and is costs them $500 dollars to make it...is that 100% profit? No..unless they have zero overhead. They have to pay the bills: 1)salaries, 2) utililities, 3) leased spaces, 4) R&D, 5)benefits for employees, etc..the list goes on and on and on. These are all attached to the sale of any product. Its just the cost of doing business. I work for a government contractor..I am a "product" to the government. They pay my company TWICE what I make.....and yet my company only see an 11% profit on my employment as a direct charge to the government as specified by the contract. The rest goes towards benefits, my office space, computer...everything I need to function.

This is why online wholesalers can sell stuff so much cheaper than Best Buy....they have almost no overhead to recoup.

My point in bringing up overhead expenses was to point out that its not just a few pieces of piping thrown together and charging 10x as much for what the material costs was. A lot of people have the view point that if the piping costs $200 in material and the exhausts costs $2000 then they are making $1800 profit thus having a tremendous margin (extreme example I know). Yes overhead is just part of the cost of doing business, but it is also factored into the sale price. Some parts take longer to make whether it be by R&D or actual production time. This overhead is usually taken into consideration when a company prices an item. I know we are on the same page here, just trying to clarify

zZSportZz · 08-06-2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan@Forged

My point in bringing up overhead expenses was to point out that its not just a few pieces of piping thrown together and charging 10x as much for what the material costs was. A lot of people have the view point that if the piping costs $200 in material and the exhausts costs $2000 then they are making $1800 profit thus having a tremendous margin (extreme example I know). Yes overhead is just part of the cost of doing business, but it is also factored into the sale price. Some parts take longer to make whether it be by R&D or actual production time. This overhead is usually taken into consideration when a company prices an item. I know we are on the same page here, just trying to clarify

Some how, I skipped over your entire thread while I was typing mine hehe. I agree with you. I was also trying to point out overhead is part of the sale price and isnt considered profit.

m4a1mustang · 08-06-2009, 11:43 AM

You're totally right. There are lots of overhead costs that go into each product a company makes.

The bottom line is that there is enough competition in the Z aftermarket space to keep prices in check. Just look at our vendors... they consistently try to offer us the lowest possible prices and take market share away from the others.

08-06-2009, 09:11 AM	#4 (permalink)
bullitt5897 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North GA Posts: 6,831 Drives: Twin Turbo Z34 Rep Power: 3684	As a rule of thumb that I use most manufacturers and some retailers build in 20-35% of profit in any product at a minimum. This is from my experiences... Granted if you get quoted that say (hypothetically speaking) for instance KW V3's are $2100.00 retail I am pretty sure you can haggle them down to $1800 and even $1700 if your good!!! its all in the deal. I bought my KW V3's for my s2000 for $1650 shipped and they retailed for $2100+... so the money is there its just whether or not you can work a relationship and a good deal. the only way these retailers will survive is good old fashion word of mouth. I know this for a fact... Get a good deal and a customer will speak loudly about what a great deal they got and then it becomes a numbers game... quantity over quality! __________________ *Shop Cars: 2013 318whp Nismo VspecII 370z SOLD, 2009 1000hp+ 93oct 4.0L TT 370z Fast Intentions STAGE 4 #054*

08-06-2009, 09:38 AM	#5 (permalink)
semtex A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Behind enemy lines Age: 55 Posts: 5,995 Drives: People to drink Rep Power: 34	You know guys, there is an upside to 'high' prices, however one chooses to define that. High prices provide an incentive to produce quality parts. Think about it. Imagine that you're in the exhaust manufacturing business, and market research indicates that 370Z owners are cheapskates who are, on average, only willing to pay, say, $50 for an exhaust. What incentive do you have to actually put the resources into producing a quality exhaust? In fact, you probably wouldn't even be bothered to produce any exhaust for this car. It's just not a market worth tapping into. Now imagine that 370Z owners are, on average, willing to dish out $1500 to upgrade their exhausts, and you happen to know that each exhaust will only cost you about $600 to produce (incl. development costs, material, labor, marketing, etc.). In other words, there's a real profit opportunity here. Suddenly, there's an incentive to make an exhaust. And not just any exhaust -- there's an incentive to make a high-quality exhaust, because you know that with margins like that, there are bound to be others who want to get in on the action for a slice of the pie. i.e., there will be competition, and competition tends to drive quality. I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that profit, 'excessive' as some may find it to be, is what drives production and the availability of goods and services. Indeed, the whole problem with socialism (IMO) is that it fails to recognize that without profit-opportunity, there is little motivation to be productive. Another upside is that high prices have a natural poseur-prohibitive effect. But I'll leave that one for another day. __________________ "There are no small accidents on this circuit." -- Ayrton Senna 316.8whp & 248 ft/lbs (Dyno Dynamics) \| 319whp & 256 ft/lbs (DynoJet) (04/23/10) Stillen G3 CAI, CBE, Pulley / F.I. LTH / GTSpec Ladder Brace / Setrab Oil Cooler / UpRev-tuned by Forged Perf.

08-06-2009, 09:42 AM	#6 (permalink)
Greg Track Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: San Francisco Age: 58 Posts: 551 Drives: 06 350 ZR CS Rep Power: 301	None of this is anything new...Who here remembers the days of SR5's, Bugs, BBS and Webers not to mention wink mirrors. __________________ Chef Greg At Your Service Last edited by Greg; 08-06-2009 at 09:44 AM.

08-06-2009, 11:43 AM	#10 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6964	You're totally right. There are lots of overhead costs that go into each product a company makes. The bottom line is that there is enough competition in the Z aftermarket space to keep prices in check. Just look at our vendors... they consistently try to offer us the lowest possible prices and take market share away from the others. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

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08-06-2009, 01:47 AM	#2 (permalink)
need4speed Base Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: tx Posts: 199 Drives: 08 altima 3.5se Rep Power: 18	I'm not a mechanic. But I have shelled out a lot of money on mod parts for cars over the years. N wat I can tell u is this much. NO THEY DON'T FIGURE since u bought a 30k car u can afford a lil more. That's not it at all. N no u Dual intakes don't call for that much of a premium. N its not cuz nissan is almost an infiniti. Lol. Lol You people are funny for real. The Z is the only "2 seat hard top true sports coupe". Let me stress that again for the purists, mechanical engineers n others that luv to argue. The Z is the only 2 seat hard top true sports car in a 30 to 40k price range. 2+2 are gt cars. Convertibles have a different driving dynamic from coupes. So cars that we pretend to be competition like bmw Z4 n Z8, Honda S2000, mazda rx8 pontiac solstice. All either fall into the gt performance meaning 2+2 or gt roadsters which mean topless sports. Again this is a whole seperate driving experience altogether. NOW, because the Z has no competition in within 5k of its top price. The bimmer starts at 45k n the cayman at 60k and lotus 50k. this leaves NISSAN the sole proprietor of the "AFFORDABLE TRUE SPORTS CAR." the whole 900 to 600 in 10 years is bogus. I seen body kits go from 1600 to 400 in 5 years. I seen intakes go from 399 to 199 in 1 year. The Z can afford to jack prices n hold out on dropping prices cuz there is no competition. See how the car magazines struggle to find a real comparo car. They can't. So they use the cayman and mustang as comparison cars. Totally unfair. The porsche costs 35k to build. The Z costs right around 18k to build.(before options) Its gonna be more refined. The mustang is a total gt. Not fair. Anyway... point is. The exclusivity of the car type brings up cost and its bogus imho. But ur stuck between a rock n a hardplace. If u holdout? Aftermarket won't produce many parts. If u buy u get more parts for cars. 1st year modders get raped. Cuz they have to pay forinitial r&d cost recovery. Once that's paid off. Prices go down. I got chewed out here by a couple of fruits one time for saying 1st year mods are way to expensive n the companies rape your pockets. Lol. Guys were crying like they own stillen stock or somethin. I modded 6 cars and the price trend is the same. High on 1st year. Just like defects on cars are highest on 1st year models. This is a fact. You can use kelly blue book, true delta or any car mag. They will tell u 1st year buyers are guinea pigs to the function n reliabilty of the cars. If u buy a 1st year car? Its best to buy in the 3rd quarter... My question is... do u guys really race? Or do u mod to say I did it First? Or is it u just wanna be text book racers that picked up a lot of mod terminology then come on here n make people think u can drive those cars you own by having a slight edge on technical terminologies n crap. More important than mods is having the skill to control a car like this Hone the skill

08-06-2009, 01:51 AM	#3 (permalink)
Plasmaball Base Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: San Diego Posts: 113 Drives: 6sp PG 370z Rep Power: 18	A person can own an expensive car and still be cheap.

08-06-2009, 11:33 AM	#7 (permalink)
zZSportZz A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,095 Drives: 370z Blk on Blk 6MT Rep Power: 20	I think people are mixing overhead expenses and profit together. Everything a company sells has overhead attached to it as well as profit. If a manufactuer charges $1000 dollars for an exhaust and is costs them $500 dollars to make it...is that 100% profit? No..unless they have zero overhead. They have to pay the bills: 1)salaries, 2) utililities, 3) leased spaces, 4) R&D, 5)benefits for employees, etc..the list goes on and on and on. These are all attached to the sale of any product. Its just the cost of doing business. I work for a government contractor..I am a "product" to the government. They pay my company TWICE what I make.....and yet my company only see an 11% profit on my employment as a direct charge to the government as specified by the contract. The rest goes towards benefits, my office space, computer...everything I need to function. This is why online wholesalers can sell stuff so much cheaper than Best Buy....they have almost no overhead to recoup.