370Z Sport Package vs Mazdaspeed 3 GT vs S2000 vs Cayman S vs Mazda Rx-8
 

THE QUEST FOR THE PERFECT CAR.:driving:
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WARNING - may be offensive to Z fans, but may be worth a read.

So here it goes for those who care, a review from another racer wanna-be who spent a lot of time researching and test driving in the quest for the perfect car:

After my S2000 got stolen (I miss this car a lot and still think it to be the best all arounder for the money), I was forced to think quick and ended up with 07' Mazdaspeed 3 GT. I was very skeptical because of the front wheel drive, but the car is magically neutral and rotates beautifully. Not to mention the amazing torque and the whistle pop whoosh hiss growl sounds that eggs you on to do something wild all the time.
But the front wheel setup just bothers me because of lack of power play tail happy options, so I have decided to move on. As a result, I went through a few cars lately and thought people would be interested.

The two I actually owned:

07' Mazdaspeed 3 GT - "feels" far faster than any other car of the bunch.
Wheel feel a bit sloppy. But turn in is great and lean is minimal.
Aggressive driving on both straights and corners is encouraged by the car's feel and sounds - wicked smiles a-plenty.
Engine sounds awesome, but the power drops off at the top. Still there is so much torque everywhere in every gear with minimal turbo lag that the whole thing feels like a moderately fast motorcycle.
Brakes feel sloppy and are the worst of the group in terms of pure stomping stopping fun.
Sloppy shifting action is the worst in the group.
Still you forget about all that when you actually drive it - it is that much fun. Relatively light but the weight feels just a tad bit high due to sitting position. Still no affect on stellar handling - just great suspension and probably on of the best rides.
Very fun and feels fastest by far in the group due to plenty torque available almost anywhere. Mazdaspeed outfit delivered a magic pill this time!

S2000 - forget the numbers and listen to this thing at the redline - that's a baby Ferrari. Feels like a soft suspended go-cart due to the lightest weight in the group.
Wheel feel is perfect, but the best was in before 04 models which were much more direct and uncivilized.
Aggressive driving on both straights and corners is encouraged by the car's feel and sounds - wicked smiles a-plenty.
As the speed picks up feels a lot faster than it actually is but can feel a bit sluggish if you are unwilling to rev it up enough, still you always are!
Engine revs very fast and in general just the best in the group in terms of sounds, compression (highest in any production car, same as F1 car), exotic feel and high rev sport motorcycle-like top-end screaming performance.
Breaks are perfect.
The lowest weight of the bunch and it shows. Makes you understand how important the weight is for the fun factor.
Did I mention, I miss this car the most?

The others that I test drove once or more times:

Mazda RX-8
One of the best handling cars in the bunch (and I mean subjective fun factor street feel). The suspension feel is very stiff over bumps but fun wise it is up there with Cayman S (absolute best), S2000 - ( sophisticated, and near perfect but a bit just a bit too soft for my taste which you can mainly feel when you have elevation changes in corners) and Mazdaspeed 3 (I can't believe it's FWD!)
Breaks - one of the best
Composure is Cayman-like like.
Engine .... yawn. Overrated, "who cares", "is this all you got?", "oh that's cute..." stuff.
Driven aggressively it grows on you, but don't lose those revs and don't lose the speed.
Feels slowest of the bunch. S2000 may not be much faster numbers wise but it feels like a rocket in comparison.
Still, I might chose it over 370Z. Well, maybe.... Hold the flames - read on..


370Z - for me was the biggest disappointment of the year. All that hype... and then pfffffffffffft....
Numbers aside, does not feel anywhere as fast as it should be. Since the red line feels like it should be at 6,000 (anything above that makes you feel that you accidentally pushed the self-destruct button), you just don't feel like pushing it. The sound just does not encourage you to rev the living daylights out of it, like in S2000. The engine feels remote and reserved compared to Mazdaspeed 3 swooshing, hissing fire dragon.
It's weird but I did not feel like I want to go fast in this thing.
Handling is respectable but the whole thing feels a little agricultural. You are conscious of the extra weight. The whole thing has the flavor of being a little ponderous and brute forced.
Every other car in the group you can merge with and forget you are driving it, you become part of the machine and start having more and more fun.(Mazdaspeed less so, S2000 the most followed closely by the Cayman). In 370Z you are always conscious of having to drive it. However, I am sure that the Z will grow on you within a year as the engine breaks in and the confidence grows.
Still out of the box, this toy was just the least fun for me, especially jumping into it after getting out of the much livelier Mazdaspeed 3, which is probably the most bang for the buck, FWD aside and having the experience of having owned two S2000 pre and after 04 trim.
Keep in mind that putting go-fast parts into 370Z may not work out because of the whimpy LSD. I believe that the last no BS great sports car Nissan built was 300ZX. Pitty.

08' Cayman S - faster, more practical S2000 for twice the cash that is actually as fast, as it feels. Feels a bit slow in the low end actually, after Mazdaspeed experience. Like S2000 and RX-8 has to be driven quite aggressively to be fully appreciated, although less so since the engine is not exactly weak. Money aside, easily the best car of the bunch overall.
I much prefer the S2000 transmission (Caymans feels a little remote although it has this infaulible perfection feel about it. S2000's gear box is prone to crashing gears once in a while, but it is still more direct and fun if you know how to double clutch and heel-and-toe) and maybe (big maybe actually because I did not spend enough time testing this) the S2000 breaks feel.
Definitely prefer S2000 clutch.
I might also prefer the Mazdaspeed engine (even with no top end and turbo lag). An intercooled and blown S2000 engine with S2000 tranny in a Cayman - now that's perfection!
The handling is just perfect. I did not abuse the car but I felt like I can rotate it any way I want to. Stays so flat and composed - just a wonder.
Weight is not a problem here although much heavier than the s2000.
And hey - with the engine hidden behind the seats there is actually space above it and behind it in the trunk, too - close to 370Z layout.
I confess, I fell in love with Cayman S and will be buying a used one without a doubt!

Bottom line:
if you are tight on cash - I would suggest buying Mazdaspeed 3 GT. Most practical, fastest feeling and going, and one of the most fun. Or consider RX-8 (some great bargains out there, you can pick up a new one for 20k these days at some more desperate dealerships.
) if the FWD just does not do it for you (I considered RX-8 seriously before I drove Cayman S).

if you can spend a bit and don't care about trunk space, I would go for S2000 (if you can get one as they are being discontinued, too expensive to build and priced too low). Most fun value for the money.

if money is available - go for the Cayman S. it's worth every penny.

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How objective is the drivel above? Somewhat. I drive my cars on the street only. I keep it as legal, as I can but am guilty of being less cautious at times.

Skill-wise, by now I taught myself the difference between e-brake tagging, stomping on the go-fast pedal and "proper" drifting. I double clutch (up and down the gears) and heel and toe is second nature to me, I ride crotch rockets and know a few things about using weight transfer.
Still track days are not my thing yet, so numbers don't impress me, as much as the seat of the pants feel and the fun factor.

I think you're about to get some pretty negative reactions...

all good cars, but

the s2000 is long in the tooth...
the mazda is a step beneath the rx-8... make that two steps... i'm sure it is fun and does okay on track etc, but not even in the same class... kind of like claiming the chevy cobolt is the one to buy... performance is admirable for the $, but they both look like crap
cayman is a great car... and is more expensive... and is no fun to mod - aftermarket prices are 2-3 times as expensive... and it is really no fun when it breaks, with the engine in the middle replacing an alternator or steering pump is 4-5 hours labor!!!

buy the base sport z, spend $1,400 on a carbonetic diff and be happy

FWD FTL

/discussion

Mook has 1 post...... hmmmmm!

I am not touching this. Same old stuff, different day! :)

all these haters suck balls :nutswinger:

Like why would you even join a club with a bunch of people that love the car...

Damn man... I am going to join your "I love Barnie" club and talk some sh*t too

mook what are you talking about on how fast the mazdaspeed gt and s2000 are? I owned both of those cars and the s2000 did not impressed me at all! I don't think it was really that fast! Besides Mazdaspeed GT are for kids...cheap car!!! I don't drive cheap cars...

so what really is going on here is someone thats trying to make themselfs feel better about having a crappy car compared to the 370z and thats about it

Wow, I don't know what to say to that.
A Mazda 3?

Zoom zoom :roflpuke2:

First of all, from a former mazdaspeed3 owner the MS3 outperforms the rx8 on every level. yes even on the track so i would put it as a step ahead even tho the interior on the rx8 is more refined. second of all the ms3 is a great car. its engine is lively the turbo doesn't have the worst lag but once it gets going it pulls, and pulls hard. and torque is everywhere from low to high (6000-6500) RPM. oh and did i mention it pulls hard and butt dyno feels like it has more power then most cars on road.

The Mazdaspeed 3 is a great reliable ready to go, destroys any civic kind of car, i wish i still owned it. but it is a hot hatch 4 banger teenager turbo. i was there i owned it. im not dissing the car in anyway i love it to death and i cannot compare it to the 370z yet because i have yet to test drive it.

just backin my ms3 up

but from what i have been reading on this forum/seen on youtube/etc your test drive of the 370z was a car that was not broken in fully, i think u should come back to a used 370z possibly. Torque steer does suck on FWD therefore i am excited to hopefully get into a 370z with RWD and a more aggressive styling then a hey look at me im a bright red hatch that is prly being drivin by a teenager pull me over. That was me back when i had it btw.

just my 2 cents on MS3

You guys should see this one from the legendary Japanese Best Motoring series (this is the series that had the King of Drift (the japanese guy, who started the drifting craze by winning grip road races while showing off his drifting skills):
Best Motoring: The 350 Z Shock
It's an hour and a half tape, all about the Z and how it stacks up against the other Japanese cars.
Of course it's an older Z (and 370 is much improved, although 200lb heavier and still over gimmicked), but this tape has Z vs RX-8, S2000, older GT-R, etc.
At some point the racers (and you have to see the tape to understand just how skillfull these guys are on the track and in the mountains) get to talking about which cars are sports cars for people who enjoy the pure driving experience for the fun of it and have the skill to take advantage of the go-fast bits, and which ones are "sporty"
cars for people, who want to feel like they are driving a sports car, but really only need a car to keep them out of trouble while they go fast. Only one car does not make the sports cars list although it was voted as the safest, most stable at speed (even over GT-R) and has plenty of gimmicky cyber-nanny electronics (some of which you cannot turn off) to keep you out of trouble. Guess, which one?
They were also using S2000 as the measuring stick and it gets the most votes for "pure sports car" for race nuts.

They do say that the tuners can make the Z shine, but that's besides the point. How many people actually end up installing the go-fast bits and why not put them on another car instead, why not put those on the S2000, which is by the way 500lb lighter?

As for Mazdaspeed... who cares if it's cheap? It is a VERY fun and competent sports car, light and fast. All these cars are relatively cheap and some use cheap materials and components to make them more affordable (just like the Z's LSD), but who cares? Would you rather drive an expensive Cayenne?

Damn I should go return my Z.

Actually, I think Z has the most potential in the bunch to become an affordable great sports car, it's already on the way (and 300ZX was my dream car for as long as they made it). I think it helps to talk about these things for people who are in the market for one and I am sure many come to this site. I am not suggesting that Nissan actually reads anything posted here but somehow summarizing and discussing all the things that are wrong with this most promising but still raw car may influence things in the long run.

The posh "sporty" car club has plenty of heavy gimmicky but very fast bloaters floating around on the highways. Most cars are getting heavier every year (mostly due to safety regulations of course).

The drivers club needs to be clear about what they do and do not want. Competent ability (even if dangerous in inexperienced hands) over hand-holding. Light weight over gimmicks. Envolvement over automation. Fun over numbers.

It's nice when you look down at a speedo and say "wow, this car is fast!", but I would rather go half as fast thinking "damn, this is fun!". If I can have both - sure, why not, but keep your priorities straight. Bragging rights should not be more important than enjoyment of driving.
These days they have expensive luxury cars that weigh as much as a truck but will keep pace with most "sport" cars on the race track and blow the doors of them on a straight line. Once in a while they build trucks and SUV's that will come damn close to that, too. The numbers are there, but fun factor is not.

Look at the motorcycles. They perfectly and clearly have a "sport" and "super-sport" bike category and those are night and day compared to the "sport cruisers": deadly serious, dangerous, uncomfortable, uncompromising, light, adrenaline machines which are so much fun that the smile barely fits in the helmet vs safe, heavy, plenty fast (or faster) and very comfortable mile gobbling chill machines.

You don't drive cheap cars for kids, but you buy them? =)
Mazdaspeed came out recently... when did you enter the expensive car adult club?
:rofl2:
Sorry, could not resist - I am sure you meant something else.

Why would go through the trouble to make an account here just to post that?...unless you just want to stir the pot. Have fun in your little Mazda. Its a cute little car. My neice wants one.

My sister looked at a Mazdaspeed 3 GT but decided to go for something a little less girly.

Her new Nissan Cube is awesome. :driving:

So true, best reply so far!

Japanese Racing Vid: S2000s, 135i, Cayman s, 370z, 911
 

Actually, speaking of performance and numbers, I just found something.
Check this Japanese racing video out:
YouTube - Z34 vs 911 vs Cayman vs S2000 vs 135i

S2000s vs 135i vs Cayman s vs 370z vs 911

370Z blows the doors of all the cars on a track except the new more powerful cayman S. S2000 horsepower is pretty outmatched by everything here and it is driven by the worst least agressive driver.

Also most would say it's because of Tsuchiya that Cayman comes in front.

Whichever car is driven by Tsuchiya is the one that usually wins.

Also, the best lap times stack up like this:
1. 911
2. 370z
3. CaymanS
4. S2000
5. 135i

I want to see him in an S2000 in this match up -it is clearly the fastest through turns. He is famous for pulling a rabbit out of a hat.

Dude outdrove the fastest Lambos, Turbo Porsche and a Ferrari in an NSX until the last lap.

Anyone speaks Japanese?

MazdaSpeed 3's aren't cheap cars and I wouldn't call what he wrote hate. He gave a series of evaluations and he felt the Z was less enjoyable. He's entitled to feel that way.
He brought up some legitamate points but I do not agree with him though.
Obviously his driving style warrants his enjoyment for fwd drive cars.
He pointed out the only value of RWD was rear swinging. Says a lot about his style.
Another good point he mentions. "He says maybe in a year he would have confidence in a Z."I can see him feeling that way. The Z has a blind spot that's only worse in those new camaro's. Its drive-by-wire steering is a next level system and should only be used by seasoned drivers. The RX-8 also has this type of steering system but 232hp 161lbs tq doesn't put so much jolt in your drawz that u will fear losing control.
The s2000 as he said... pre 04 was uncivilized. Those were more like pure race cars then over time they refined them in order to sell better. S2000 sales have always been lackluster though the car is iconic. So honda sold out some of its purity for luxury 05 n up.
He's a novice driver. There's nothing wrong with that and driving enthusiasts should respect it. At least he wants to hone skills with all the right cars.
And the mazdaspeed 3 is a great car. The turbo gives it punch which gives him the "ILLUSION" he's going faster than in a 370z. But remember the 350z n the mazdaspd3 get very similar track times. Near identical. The mazda is no slouch either. We kno it can't best track times of the 370z, but its not alwayz bout track times. Driving style n personal preference will play a big part in wat car u think is best.

You got alota guys buyin the Z that u know belong in sum FWD boy racer cuz they jus don't have the skills. But they r in a Z cuz it looks nice n they wanna impress chix... lol
N wat cracks me up the most is when people say the Z is mature... lol on what planet?
I luv the Z. I'm 2 months short of owning one. But I'm not foolon myself... lol
That fish face front is just as boi ricer racer az the eclipse open mouth front.
Only the Nismo to me has a more mature front fascia while staying true to the Z heritage.
And tho I will admit the Nismo looks more mature. I luv the base/sport better.
See in the end I prefer the immature looking version of the Z. So wat!?

Thanks for understanding.

Actually, if you read my first post it clearly says that I can't stand FWD and that is why I am getting rid of Mazdaspeed (which I still enjoy very much) after 1 year of driving it in favor of a used Cayman S. I firmly believe in steering with the throttle =). As one great Grand Prix racer once said, refering to the art of four wheel drift: one who keeps his wheels straight the most - wins. Not that Mazda can't do that, it's just well it's missing some of that old school RWD flavor. This is also, why (aside from the weight) I don't want those psycho 4wds like WRX - too much push, not enough swing.

370Z could have saved me a bit of dough.... but some things are just a matter of taste.

Noone probably cares by now, but The 05 and up S2000 has slower steering, stronger engine and better planted rear end, although just as easily drifted. Some of the fun was definitely gone.

I heard that few companies wanted to insure the old S2000 anymore, since so many of them were wrecked by inexperienced drivers. Once it swapped ends on me at 60mph on bold tires in the rain just from hitting a puddle (and I was going nearly straight). It snapped the tail, hydroplaned and no amount of opposite lock or throttle play could get it away from the curb, which was coming at me all of a sudden at a good clip. I locked up all four wheels. spun it out and finally found some grip... rolling backwards and away from the damn curb. Car stalled (did not clutch it on time, once it spun), and with traffic coming up fast, that Start button suddenly became very handy LOL.

The old turbo MR2's had the same problem.

As for the steering, I kind of love the direct feel of good old unassisted rack, like they have on a Lotus (dream car, eh?) Purely matter of preference, I realize.

Oh, and I love the Nismo looks =). It's the Nismo that I would buy, if I went with a Nissan. I am sure I would enjoy the firmer suspension.

i currently own a ms3 gt and am waiting for my 370z to come in, i'm on the wait list, i did not order one to be made. when it arrives, i may not like it at all. i love the way it looks.
i hope i do like driving it, that and the evo X are the only 2 cars i can see trading in my ms3 for.

i do notice a lot of kids with ms3's now which is a bad thing. the main thing about the ms3 is it's affordable ~25k, decently quick, handles well and insurance is CHEAP.
most insurance companies list the ms3 as a regular mazda 3 still, i pay 675 a year full coverage on it. it is a blast to drive, but i do wish mazda put the ms6 awd system in it.
the main reason i want the Z is for rwd. i used to have an mr2 turbo and that is the car i miss the most out of all the cars iv'e owned.

i have also driven the s2k and hands down that was the most fun car i've driven, handling wise, since it's like a big go kart. i thought about buying one, even considered a cR, but after driving the ms3 for a year and a half now, the s2k felt so slow, almost civic like. i know its a hair quicker than a ms3 but w/o the torque, my brain can't compute lol.

i'm reading a lot of reviews that say the Z is the perfect car @ ~30k
i'm hoping the "its heavy and you know it" feeling doesn't come. but if it does
i'll just keep my ms3.

ok done rambling, my thoughts were all over the place

:eek: Only brand new 09' Caymans come with a limited-slip?!!! #@$%#$%^!!!

I am gonna need that.... and I sure as hell not spending this kind of cash on a new Porsche. Nor will I have any cash left over after buying a used older one to tinker with it.
Oh well, back to the drawing board for me or maybe just hang on to MS3.
this sucks!

Seems like we are more or less in the same boat and have similar experience and taste in cars - I could have written all of that above myself. Please post a review once you get your hands on a Z.
After I found out that drifting in an older Cayman is going to suck compared to what I am used to with S2000, I am actually considering giving Z another look. Of course, could look for an S2000, but I really want a hard top this time. When the moderate weather comes, I just ride my motorbike or the scooter and don't even look at my car.

Either that or wait another 2 years behind the wheel of MS3 (not such a horrible fate after all =) until I can afford an 09 Cayman S with LSD:driving:

Oh, by the way I heard that Evo IX is actually more fun to drive than the X - never tried it myself, it's a bit on the heavy side for me.

i could care less about drifting, i just miss having rwd.
i cant afford a cayman rofl, ~30k is about max that i could
spend on a car, i'm not balling by any means.

ive driven the evo IX and X, the IX - boost comes on like crazy like being shot out of a cannon, X - more linear but you still get a good kick when boost comes on, i completely prefer the X over the IX. what held me back from the X was gas mileage, people are getting 200-220 a tankful? wtf, my work commute is short but screw that mileage.

once i drive the Z i will post my thoughts. and as for the person who said the Z isn't "mature" when i say mature i mean classy i guess, the 370z is a step above an evo, sti, ms3, all those cars look like they would have a teenager behind the wheel, but the Z is just more grown up looking, hell the rear reminds me of a porsche

Mook I came from an '07 s2000 and I will tell you this. I am FAR MORE HAPPIER with my 370z than the s2000... I went through the entire modding cycle with the s2000 and had 257rwhp on my S. I had fully tricked out KW's and I tracked the car along with Daily Driving. I am still a member of my local s2k club and I take my Z to the meets and track events. I will tell you this... "The Z by FAR hands the s2000 its a$$ both on the track( tight road courses like lil tally) and on the street." You may call the extra weight gimmicky but I at least have a NAV system and full Car computer built in. The car is more comfortable for longer drives 14hrs+ and can handle the mountain roads like a champ. The Sport brakes are insanely better. while, on the track I watched as I passed fellow s2k owners going into the turn broke later and kept higher speeds through out the turn in my STOCK 370z. In my s2k I was able to pull off 1:11's @ lil tally (talladega grand prix) fully modded. With the Z I pulled 1:12's on my warm up laps and was consistently in the 1:10's in the rain!!!! so tell us why all these smaller cars are that much better... because you perceive that they are faster.... hmmmmm just doesnt cut it for me.

Recently, I received tons of hate from my once s2000 brethren from making the switch but after they drove the car every single one of them said if they had the money they would make the switch. I miss aspects of my s2000 not in its stock form but what I had made it. However, I look forward to what I am going to be able to do with the 370z. My goal 600 usable rwhp to start.

If you like your Mazdaspeed 3 go for it! for the money thats a fun lil ride! I however put it in the same class as the miata "Best fun under 90mph and $25k"

Oh boy here comes the mazdaspeed 3 crowd. I've owned an 04 S2K and they are fantastic cars, just unfortunately lack overall grunt (30-40 hp more and i'd be content). A good friend owned a mazdaspeed 3 for about 2 years and liked it, but the fit and finish was very cheap. The motor was nice I must say, but the tranny was junk and once you start modding or upping the boost, the FWD is worthless. He went to a 09 STI and was glad he made the change, even for a Subaru it was a substantial step up in quality.

Sounds to me like you never really explored what the Z can do. If you shifted at 6,000, you were driving a 200hp car, not a 332hp car. Check out the torque and horsepower curves.

But frankly, you should drive whatever floats your boat. There is no better/worse, except on a racetrack.

I haven't driven the Mazdaspeed 3, but I briefly bought a Mazdaspeed6 which uses the same engine, but has AWD. It is a nice engine.

I had an RX-8 before the Z, and it really is a great handling vehicle. Plus it takes abuse well. I tracked mine every other weekend for the two years that I owned it (except in winter). I loved winding it out and shifting on the "beep". It reminded me of the S2000 in that respect. And the handling around windy back-country roads is superior, and better-balanced than the S2000 IMHO.

Where I drive most of the time, it is difficult to stay in the high revs. The S2000 is less than inspiring below 6000. It's still a fun sports car, but really not even as much fun as a Miata at 30mph. BTW, I had a heavily modified turbo Miata with about 230hp that was an incredible blast to drive. Anyway, I like the S2000 and find it a great sports car, but not really my cup of tea.

I also think the Cayman S is a fantastic sports car. I nearly bought one. But I found it a bit too refined for my tastes. I prefer the immediacy and brutality of the Z.

Again, I think you should drive what you like. What's better? Whatever floats your boat. Thanks for sharing your perspectives with us here.

HJM

i liked the sti, but even with 0% and 8k off msrp, i didnt think that was worth the $ for me to upgrade from an ms3. it felt really soft. the evo on the other hand, altho the interior is a step down from an ms3, felt like it wanted to go.

but i agree the sti interior is really nice.

the thing with the s2k is it's a convertible, that would be the only reason i would want one. even at 28k for a new cR, i couldn't pull the trigger and that was 8k off msrp. the Z however, i got quoted close to 3k off msrp and im close to pulling that trigger if i like the driving feel.

like i said before i have no issues keeping my ms3, for what it is, it's a great daily that can haul stuff around quickly.

quick question tho, i know you can fit golf clubs in a 370z, but will 2 sets of golf clubs fit in there?

2 sets, maybe, I have a picture (not mine) of two bags fitting but I believe it has no clubs in them.

Not sure what you are expecting but most well built car are not going to feel like you are driving fast when you are. What you are talking about are cars that are not rigid enough to keep its form at high speeds and it allows you to "feel" the speed.

If thats what you are looking for then I sugest you hop back in your econo box and go to town. Sorry but your review is just silly. This car is incredibly fast and any and every profesionall review/dyno will tell you the same. Just becuase you are use to driving cars that 'feel' fast as apposed to this one that doesn't doesn't mean its not fast.

The fact that you join the forum just to post this hate is insane to me.

I guess your post verifies two things:

• You can take the man out the trailer but you can't take the trailer out of the man.
• You can pay for school but you can't buy class.

Sounds like you are having a lot of fun with your Z! Congrats on actually using the car for what it was made for.
Track work in tricked out cars is a whole different beast though, isn't it? As I said in my mini-review, this is a street stock comparison. I am 100% certain that if I was in an environment which allowed balls to the wall redline fun with all the collateral entertainment, Nismo 370Z would be in my driveway tomorrow and I would love every second of it. Maybe I'll get into the that later.
On the street though, for me the fun factor and how fast it "feels" is much more important than whether a Z06 hands me my rear bumper on the platter and then makes me eat it. Smaller, lighter cars with LESS rubber can move about more freely on the streets and on the highway, in general can do creative driving bits at lower speeds and make you work the car and participate in the process rather than point and squirt stuff that a car like Z06 is restricted to on the streets. Maybe 370Z is the middle ground, I am not sure.

A good example is in some cities where things are tighter and law is on the
case, many choose light agile 600cc crotch rockets instead of the faster and heavier 1000cc machines, myself included. Highway aside, it's no fun to roll around in two gears all day long babying the throttle like it's going to bite you.
600, you can work and feel like a MotoGP hero without going to jail, well... ok... maybe a few tickets. Oh and the actual average speed - is too close to worry about. The highway, well that's another matter. Nothing like the narrowing street at 180mph on two wheels, not that I have ever done it =).

That's why Miatas are so much fun when boosted on the street.

For instance, the latest tiny tricked out Lotus is a monster track machine but it is routinely passed by Cayman S in British reviews because it is just more fun on the street, believe it or not (I have to, cause noone is going to let me test drive the Lotus)

You talking about straight line constant speed driving?

Acceleration (torque wins races by the way, HP just sells cars... and computers, lol), cornering and the manner of weight transitions is what I am talking about. The more rigid the car overall, the more you gonna feel those. You ever drove a moderately fast go-cart? You walk away with bruises on your body in all the unpadded bits. A friend of mine had his arm broken just from one of the seriously fast go carts regaining traction in an awkward way. No give there.

Or did someone cancel the laws of physics in your neck of the woods?

i think it's just the diff between being boosted and n/a

:werd:, in my case i don't own or have owned an s2k, but 3 of my close friends do. the S is farrrr from the 370, with all of my friends agreeing. i used to enjoy driving their s2ks when i had my 350 but now that i have the 370 the s2k's do nothing for me in any department.

Sorry, about offering a speculation here, but here it goes anyways:

One of the things I love most about street entertainment is low speed drift (do not attempt at home, driver on closed circuit, void where prohibited, etc)

According to IL (and there is no way I can test this at the dealership =)unmodded 370 does not have a predictable oversteer, spins the inner tire more than the outer (weak LSD - this sucks for drift as it will arrest it suddenly, which is no fun at all, and that is why I am bummed out about no LSD on Caymans) and is much more difficult to drift than the 350.

Still the Nismo drifting videos are really good stuff, but so are the Genesis.

Mission accomplished...
 

Got a deal I could not turn down on a 2007 Cayman S with 2 years factory warranty left on it.... for way under the MSRP of a touring sport 370Z. Damn the LSDs...

I'll just ride this little rocket until the 09 is more affordable.
Going to pick it up today:driving:

I agree……….and in addition, the Cayman/Boxster is really a disposable motor should something happen!
My 16 year old niece drives a Mazda 3 GT and loves it, so it cannot be all bad!

Causes of M97.21 Engine Failure? - Planet Porsche

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wil...gine-failures/

Having driven all these cars, I'd like to know what drugs you are smoking :( The only car in that group that's in the same performance class as the Z is the cayman. I'm talking about the 09 Cayman too...

The S2000 is a great little car, but it doesn't have enough power to keep up with a stock Z, much less a modified one...or just about anything else but a Miata. The Mazda 3? competent? Hardly. The RX8 arguably can handle around a road course, but its not by any stretch of the imagination a good bang for the buck.

It's silly to think that after test driving the car and reading magazine articles you think you know enough or for some reason feel inclined to come post gibberish on a 370Z forum. I'd love you to drive my 370Z and still tell me after that your opinion still stands. In fact, lets take your precious Cayman and I'll take my Z to the track and see if you still think any of those cars you mentioned are still any good. Come on, I'll go with street tires.