So many of these guys must be some how bionic. At least their ears anyway. To hear over and over how they can estimate and predict everything about an engine they know nothing about with their ears is just AMAZING! I guess maybe I am just jealous that I need a timing system to be able to tell. Oh well that or a rear view mirror if we are comparing the Z to mustangs or Camaros.....

How can you even compare a 400whp to a 350hp at the crank? sorry but you sounded like some kinda ign%%@*t! :icon18:

I said satisfying, and as an aside, fast. lol. It didn't help that it was FWD and had 225 tires, and the Nismo is RWD with 285 tires. Obviously the 370 seems very tame because of this. I'm just sad, and expressing it, that's all. Twin turbo please lol. 370ZX

Nick, here's older pictures of the car:
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showt...=%5BEquinox%5D

And mods...
'07 MS3 GT, Black SOLD
Bolt-ons: Xede EMS(18psi), Ported and Polished KO4 Turbo, Clipped Turbine Wheel, Larger Billet Compressor Wheel, Corksport FMIC, PG Exhaust Manifold, CP-E Downpipe back (no cats) exhaust, Forge Bypass Valve, TWM Short Shifter w/ solid bushings, TRZ Rear Motor Mount
Rice: 18" Volk TE37 Time Attacks(Black and Red), ProSports Boost Gauge, AEM UEGO AFR Gauge, Lotek Triple Dash Pod, Optima Yellow-top Drycell, AutoEXE Shift Knob, A'PEXi Turbo Timer, Red Valve Cover, Shaved Mazdaspeed Emblem, Shaved Side-moldings

It's the Xede EMS that added 80whp by itself. :)

That's a sick mod list for the ms3. Looked like it was a great car. Just turbo the 370z and I'm sure you'll be happier :-P

this thread was kinda helpfull for me ,
the real true opinon came out from all partys
now it narrows down for me , either the 2010 evox or 2010 370z
same price range but 2 different world of cars..

now i have a 350z and will keep it even after the new buy
so...why 2z in the garage? thats the feeling im geting right now

Stop comparing the Z and Evo total oppisites
4 or 2 door (do you really neeed/want the back seat/
price range is nowhere the same unless your taking a loaded Z to a base Evo
and for performance Z is more fun to tune (my opinion)

I've owned both and here's my input on EVO and Z

EVO-
The Good.
1 Easy to mod for power.
2 AWD for snow.
3 Seats 5, you can get away with this as a family with your wife.. ;)
4 That BOV sound woooshhhh woooshhhh is priceless..
The Bad.
1 Stupid wheel problems, you danage one, then you gotta replace all 4 togther so that they will have same size and won't damage the LSDs.
2 Tubro lag is very bad with a 2.0L size. There are 2.3 or 2.4 stroker kits, but cost a fortune..
3 (Might not be a bad) You site staright up in the car.
4 Problems caused by mods...more lag, leaks,...

Turbo, 4 wheel drive....I took the car eveywhere, camping trip, skiing, work. It's really nice when it was stock. A year later, I got used of the stock power and started adding parts. I'm sure you all know how it goes on mods, especially with turbo cars. You change one engien part, it will lead you to change another...intake, exhaust, cams, bov, boost controller, larger injector, intercooler, spark plugs, wires, clutch/flywheel, dyno tuning, I even went as far as adding a Alky Kit (a second fuel tank that holds alchol+methnoal, a control module, and a injector that you tap into the intake, when boosting it sparys into engine to mix with the air/fuel mixture and it would cool down the engine internal, and thus allowing higher boost.) It was boosting at 28psi w/about 340HP/TQ to the wheel..........well, the car became very very fast, but undriveable as a day to day car.....tubro lag was very bad (nothing from under 3800rpm), clutch was heavy, and the exhaust sound was killing my hearing.......
The end result of that was I enjoy it less, from 6 days a week to may be only Friday night (lets not get into that =) ).


370z - RWD, nice flat TQ, lower to ground.
I just got the car a week ago, so I don't have too much thoughts yet, but this is what I come up with so far.

The Good.
1 V6 power. I can drive in 6th at local speed.
2 Nice low end power
3 Overall easy to drive
4 Pretty tach gauges

The Bad.
1 Fat wheels pick up rocks too easily
2 Low front end, gotta slowly roll over bumps and ramps
3 Blind spots..OMG I can't see a thing! lol.

I still breaking in the z right now, so I have to drive it really slow. However I can feel that it wants to go and don't like to be shifted at 2000rpm (especiall 1st gear) =) I think because it's V6, it much easier to drive daily. I'll have to wait till i'm done w/ break-in to find out more about it...

Alright, I'm late to the party..... but did mook say he "double clutches"? seriously? these transmissions have synchros, isn't double clutching just for tanks and farm equipment because there's no synchros so you have to match the gears more closely?? I mean I know it's cool when Dom says "you were granny shifting instead of double clutching like you should..." but isn't that just movie hype? Are there any track drivers out there "double-clutching"?

Don't think so...

:iagree: :bowrofl::bowrofl::bowrofl::bowrofl:

Does anybody find anything seriously wrong about this post? I wouldn't call 400whp on a fwd exactly satisfying. It's more in a terribly misguided category in my opinion.

who cares about mazda if it's not an FD ?

I quit reading your post right there. get better sources to back up your BS :gtfo2:

yeah I kept driving it here and there and it kind of grew on me, so I only have three gripes left:
1) why the hell can't I disconnect the traction control completely in a sports car(no, the button does not kill all the gadgetry)? Especially in a car as accomplished as the Z. In something as psychotic as an m coupe, maybe. But the Z? Michael Schumacher himself noted it's safety (he is actually the Stig in Top Gear reviews).
2) having one wheel spin on hard corner exits sucks.
3) engine sound is a mood killer

Once again you don't have your facts right.
1) Yes actually traction is COMPLETELY OFF on 370Z when you push the off button. (he is actually the Stig in Top Gear reviews) Wrong! That's what top gear would have you believe.
2) That's why I didn't buy a mustang or a camaro. My vlsd is working quite alright for me on my sport package touring.
3) I actually find the BOV sound a mood killer.

You should really read more posts then write because you have a lot to learn kid.

Out of curiosity, what is the definition of a sports car?

And you can buy an Evo all day long for under $30K. A GSR can be had for under $28K, before taxes. You can also buy an STi for under $30K, in base trim. The MSRP is over $30K but the purchase price is under $30K. ;)

The term sports car has been defined as "an open, low-built, fast motor car." The term describes a class of automobile with two seats, two doors, precise handling, brisk acceleration, and sharp braking — trading practical considerations such as passenger space, comfort, and cargo capacity — for driving enjoyment.

You can buy them if you haggle yes, but one person v. another might get different prices. That is why I went by MSRP, it is a fair comparison on what they should go for, not what you could pay for. Saying I can buy X car for a certain price is the same argument that any car with so many mods can be another car stock, you cannot compare (to many variables). That is why we have stock v. stock comparisons and the best way to judge something.

So a Z-coupe is not a sports car since it's not open? ;)

And I hardly think comparing MSRP is fair when anyone with a brain can get them for a much lower price. The Z can be had (base model) for $28K, give or take, and the Evo X can also be had for that price. That means they are absolutely price-competitive. MSRP, especially in this economy, is pretty much disregarded by most buyers.

Stock-vs-stock is a fair comparison for performance but not for price. Common selling price, not asking, is how price should be compared.

The word open can be something that means different things.
But MSRP is the only basis we have to go on (such as stock performance), I got my Z for invoice but others are paying 500-1,000 over invoice. Yes it can be had but it does not mean that is how you compare an item. I was offered a Evo MR at invoice plus rebate but someone else may have only gotten MSRP plus rebate.

What other meaning for "open" can you think of, if not "convertible"? "Lots of room"? "Without a windshield"?

I saw someone earlier (might have been you) say that the Z and Cayman were the only sports cars of the bunch so was wondering how they came to that conclusion.

Again, I agree on comparing stock performance but comparing MSRP doesn't make any sense to me if it doesn't remotely reflect the actual purchase price of the vehicle. Stock power/tuning comparisons are valid because it's the way the car comes from the factory.

Pricing is not set in stone the way performance is - it's negotiable and is therefore comparable on a "probable" level vs a "standard" level. Power/performance is not negotiable from the factory and so it is valid to limit to an absolute value (stock) for comparison purposes. :stirthepot:

MSRP is the only standard we have though, I guess we could compare invoice price since that information is available and more in line with current market prices. Though the moment the market rebounds we might see Nissan Zs back at MSRP price only.

No, that was not me.
My definition I provided was a single definition, if you want to tear it apart go ahead, but either way the MS3 as I said is not a sports car.

I guess we'll agree to disagree, then. :) A car that spanks some "real" sports cars is a sports car in my book, regardless of the body shape or number of doors. Same goes for a Cobalt SS. I wouldn't own them but I don't discount their right to be a "sports car" any more than I would a Miata, a 370Z, or a Porsche 911.

See, a Cobalt SS or MS3 I would say is a sports compact. Good speed, performance, but they also want to keep some of that needed room for storage or price.
The cars at the end of your list are the sports car, they will take away space, price, storage so they can have extra power.

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::i agree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

I would argue that the classic definition of a sports car is changing. It wasn't until 2002 when the WRX hit the US market that the concept of a light, fast, four-door sports sedan really became mainstream. The WRX was really the beginning of the sport compact market, and I would call it, and the cars that followed it - Evo, STi, Civic SI, Mini Cooper S, Mazdaspeed3, etc - sports cars. If your definition of a sports car means it has to be two doors, low slung, and have a big engine, then a Mustang with its live axle is a sports car. But a Mustang certainly doesn't poses the road prowess or fun to drive factor of any the cars mentioned above. And it is at a disadvantage to at least 3 of the above cars on a track. So if a "sports car" like the Mustang is heavier, less tossable, and slower than the "non-sports cars" then I think the definition needs updating.

He never mentioned anything about a big engine, more like a faster high revving engines found in a traditional sports car.

Some people even call Miata's sports cars, for the thrill of driving one...but its hardly comparable to say, a charged Solice, Sky or the S2000...but you get the point.

Okay, so we will use the term "high output" engine then. That would be comprehensive enough to include either a Mustang V-8 or a small displacement high revving S2000 engine.

But I still believe that you cannot qualify a sports car simply by extrinsic characteristics like body style, engine, and number of seats. A sports car is defined by what purpose it was built for, and how well it achieves that purpose. When the Army picks out a new APC it doesn't do that based on how it looks. It chooses one based on how well it can absorb a bomb blast, take an RPG hit, drive through uneven terrain, and manuever around tricky urban obstacles. In other words, the vehicle best suited for its purpose, regardless of outside appearances.

I believe a Miata is usually considered a roadster first, a sports car second.

A Miata is the essence of a sports car, to me. It's not that powerful but it is focused in its sporting intentions. Drop-top, sporty ride, minimal useful purpose as a vehicle, great gearbox, and very tossable. I consider the S2000 (for instance) to be an even better sports car, mainly due to the better stock suspension and higher power levels, but it's not really any more of a sports car.

A number of guys I know own them and track them. With intake/header/exhaust (165-170 whp) and coilovers, an NC Miata is as quick as most S2000s around the track (quicker through the corners, slower on the straights). The stock suspension is somewhat floaty when flogged hard and the car leans a LOT in stock form but a bit of suspension work and an aggressive alignment really works wonders through the corners.

The idea of a sports car has changed over the years and much harder to define with modern cars. Though must remember certain things:

~Muscle car - Mustang, Camaro, Challenger
~Sports compact - MS3, Cobalt SS, etc.
~Sports car - Z, Cayman, etc. (Note just naming a few)
~Sport roadster - Z, s2000, Miata

Each of these has power in some form and excels at something, each can be moved from its current group to another easily with your own definition.

A MX5 is sports car and roadster, yes it may not have the power of some other sports cars but it is stil a great sports car and we alll owe it a lot as it was the MX5 that brought back the little convertible sports car from the dead and continues to dominate its market segment. Saving to buy a Z!

Yawn...

Not to beat a dead horse but as a current owner of both a 370Z and a MazdaSpeed Protege I feel I can add some objective input on this. Check out my album for pics and mod list of my MSP. I realize it's a bit different than a Mazdaspeed 3, but it's very similar in performance, handling and practicality.

--- Performance ---
These types of cars are two different beasts. I like to describe my MSP as a mosquito. INCREDIBLY quick, darty, tossible and fun to drive. Steering feedback makes you feel SOOOOO connected to this car (mazda really has this nailed) and you know exactly where you are in relation to it's limits. It really does "feel" fast, even if you're only going 20mph. And it handles like a dream - you would never believe it's a FWD car.

Fully modified my MSP is as fast on the highway as my stock 370. That however is beyond the reasonable limit of the stock block. I had everything you could do to this car without building the motor and for straight line speed got it as fast as my 370 starts at. Most people blew their motors running this kind of boost. Mine held tight for 5+ years (great tune) then popped when my wastegate actuator broke and I spiked at 20psi :(

My 370Z on the other hand is best described as a missile. When you want to go, IT GOES! And it cruises through the turns nice and smooth. It definitely out handles my MSP - I can take familiar turns at about 5-10mph faster in my Z but I can't really tell how close to the limit I'm at. I will admit this is my first high powered RWD car so I'm no expert at all & it's quite possible I'm not even close to the limit in these turns.... It's just the car is not as confidence inspiring cause I just don't feel as connected to it. I'm sure with more experience I'll get there. 6 years in the Mazda vs 4 months in the Z can't really give the same level of knowledge.

Thus I'm modifying the suspension on the Z first. Hoping to get it up to par before I start building the power level. And for power potential the Z is gonna have so much in the next 1-3 years the options will be virtually limitless. One of the primary reasons I chose this car over a BMW 335.

In short - my MSP is more fun to drive, but my Z is a better performer in all categories. The MSP is a really "sporty" car, while the Z is really a sports car.

--- Styling ---
Hands down the Z wins. No question. I love my MSP, love how unique it is (I know the orange pearl paint isn't for everyone) but really this point doesn't even need to be discussed. The MSP was a great choice when I was in my mid 20s, and I've seen white ones and love them, but still not even close. The MSP looks good, the Z is just plain sexy!

Both interiors are equal IMO, but I am VERY anal about my cars and my MSP with 100K+ miles on it still looks brand new. Took a coworker out for lunch today and they made that exact comment. Plus the MSP has more custom touches the stock 370 doesn't have yet.

---Practicality---
Mazda wins hands down. If I only had 1 car I don't think I could live with my Z. No practical cargo room, no room for the dog... plus it's just too pretty to carry anything other than my GF in ;)

So yeah, they are both great cars, but each in their own respect. I can agree with a lot of the original poster's points and if I could only have one car it's highly doubtful it would be a Z.

Thus, I feel incredibly lucky to have the privilege of being able to drive both :)

Sorry but there's no way the xede added 80whp and there's also no way in hell your ms3 had 400whp.

[QUOTE=cab83_750;135616]Mook has 1 post...... hmmmmm!

No.............Mook has one post too many !!:stirthepot:

In terms of handling I think you might have a comparison here between the Speed3 and the MSP. But you cannot compare these cars in terms of performance. The MSP had 170 hp and 160 torque and sprints to 60 in just over 7 seconds; the MS3 has 263 hp and 280 torque and hits 60 in 5.4 seconds. Totally different performance.

Check my album and mods list. I pull on MS3s, 350Zs and Mustang GTs all day in my MSP. They'll still pull me from a dig, but anything over a 40mph roll I leave them all behind. Stock for stock you are right, but as mentioned in my post my MSP is very far from stock.

I wonder what a roll race would look like between a Mazdaspeed3 with an intake/midpipe (311 hp, 317 torque at engine) and a 370Z with intake/exhaust (don't know numbers for this one)....?

In case anyone doubts the gains here..

http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=159046.0

I wonder what a obvious troll would say when he revives an old thread...?

First off there are plenty of people that came here bashing this guy for his comments.Maybe they were warranted. In any event this is an open forem people are here to speak thier mind even the one's that disagree. this is all great reading and entertaining if nothing else.It is very evident that this guy has some knowledge of cars , his opinion may be a little off but that's just opinion. most forums are the same what ever they are driving or selling is the world nothing else matters. I belive we can all have discussion without name calling , bashing etc... if you thinnk thiis guy is full of it cool. If you have an opinion please express it.
Whether he is full of it or not , remember the old saying "don't argue with fools 'cause people from a distance dont know who is who"
This is great reading keep it up you can only tune and mod so much that is why this stuff is important to keep forums alive.
Everyone have a good day and continue....