370Z Sport Package vs Mazdaspeed 3 GT vs S2000 vs Cayman S vs Mazda Rx-8

Sand123 · 10-17-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

He never mentioned anything about a big engine, more like a faster high revving engines found in a traditional sports car.

Okay, so we will use the term "high output" engine then. That would be comprehensive enough to include either a Mustang V-8 or a small displacement high revving S2000 engine.

But I still believe that you cannot qualify a sports car simply by extrinsic characteristics like body style, engine, and number of seats. A sports car is defined by what purpose it was built for, and how well it achieves that purpose. When the Army picks out a new APC it doesn't do that based on how it looks. It chooses one based on how well it can absorb a bomb blast, take an RPG hit, drive through uneven terrain, and manuever around tricky urban obstacles. In other words, the vehicle best suited for its purpose, regardless of outside appearances.

I believe a Miata is usually considered a roadster first, a sports car second.

JonBoy · 10-20-2009, 02:37 PM

A Miata is the essence of a sports car, to me. It's not that powerful but it is focused in its sporting intentions. Drop-top, sporty ride, minimal useful purpose as a vehicle, great gearbox, and very tossable. I consider the S2000 (for instance) to be an even better sports car, mainly due to the better stock suspension and higher power levels, but it's not really any more of a sports car.

A number of guys I know own them and track them. With intake/header/exhaust (165-170 whp) and coilovers, an NC Miata is as quick as most S2000s around the track (quicker through the corners, slower on the straights). The stock suspension is somewhat floaty when flogged hard and the car leans a LOT in stock form but a bit of suspension work and an aggressive alignment really works wonders through the corners.

theDreamer · 10-20-2009, 03:52 PM

The idea of a sports car has changed over the years and much harder to define with modern cars. Though must remember certain things:

~Muscle car - Mustang, Camaro, Challenger
~Sports compact - MS3, Cobalt SS, etc.
~Sports car - Z, Cayman, etc. (Note just naming a few)
~Sport roadster - Z, s2000, Miata

Each of these has power in some form and excels at something, each can be moved from its current group to another easily with your own definition.

onekneedown · 10-20-2009, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mook

THE QUEST FOR THE PERFECT CAR.

--------------------------------------
WARNING - may be offensive to Z fans, but may be worth a read.

370Z - for me was the biggest disappointment of the year. All that hype... and then pfffffffffffft....
Numbers aside, does not feel anywhere as fast as it should be. Since the red line feels like it should be at 6,000 (anything above that makes you feel that you accidentally pushed the self-destruct button), you just don't feel like pushing it. The sound just does not encourage you to rev the living daylights out of it, like in S2000. The engine feels remote and reserved compared to Mazdaspeed 3 swooshing, hissing fire dragon.
It's weird but I did not feel like I want to go fast in this thing.
Handling is respectable but the whole thing feels a little agricultural. You are conscious of the extra weight. The whole thing has the flavor of being a little ponderous and brute forced.
In 370Z you are always conscious of having to drive it. However, I am sure that the Z will grow on you within a year as the engine breaks in and the confidence grows.

Keep in mind that putting go-fast parts into 370Z may not work out because of the whimpy LSD. I believe that the last no BS great sports car Nissan built was 300ZX. Pitty.

Bottom line:
if you are tight on cash - I would suggest buying Mazdaspeed 3 GT. Most practical, fastest feeling and going, and one of the most fun. Or consider RX-8 (some great bargains out there, you can pick up a new one for 20k these days at some more desperate dealerships.
) if the FWD just does not do it for you (I considered RX-8 seriously before I drove Cayman S).

if you can spend a bit and don't care about trunk space, I would go for S2000 (if you can get one as they are being discontinued, too expensive to build and priced too low). Most fun value for the money.

if money is available - go for the Cayman S. it's worth every penny.

==================
How objective is the drivel above? Somewhat. I drive my cars on the street only. I keep it as legal, as I can but am guilty of being less cautious at times.
.

Yawn...

TXSpeedDemon · 10-21-2009, 01:05 AM

Not to beat a dead horse but as a current owner of both a 370Z and a MazdaSpeed Protege I feel I can add some objective input on this. Check out my album for pics and mod list of my MSP. I realize it's a bit different than a Mazdaspeed 3, but it's very similar in performance, handling and practicality.

--- Performance ---
These types of cars are two different beasts. I like to describe my MSP as a mosquito. INCREDIBLY quick, darty, tossible and fun to drive. Steering feedback makes you feel SOOOOO connected to this car (mazda really has this nailed) and you know exactly where you are in relation to it's limits. It really does "feel" fast, even if you're only going 20mph. And it handles like a dream - you would never believe it's a FWD car.

Fully modified my MSP is as fast on the highway as my stock 370. That however is beyond the reasonable limit of the stock block. I had everything you could do to this car without building the motor and for straight line speed got it as fast as my 370 starts at. Most people blew their motors running this kind of boost. Mine held tight for 5+ years (great tune) then popped when my wastegate actuator broke and I spiked at 20psi

My 370Z on the other hand is best described as a missile. When you want to go, IT GOES! And it cruises through the turns nice and smooth. It definitely out handles my MSP - I can take familiar turns at about 5-10mph faster in my Z but I can't really tell how close to the limit I'm at. I will admit this is my first high powered RWD car so I'm no expert at all & it's quite possible I'm not even close to the limit in these turns.... It's just the car is not as confidence inspiring cause I just don't feel as connected to it. I'm sure with more experience I'll get there. 6 years in the Mazda vs 4 months in the Z can't really give the same level of knowledge.

Thus I'm modifying the suspension on the Z first. Hoping to get it up to par before I start building the power level. And for power potential the Z is gonna have so much in the next 1-3 years the options will be virtually limitless. One of the primary reasons I chose this car over a BMW 335.

In short - my MSP is more fun to drive, but my Z is a better performer in all categories. The MSP is a really "sporty" car, while the Z is really a sports car.

--- Styling ---
Hands down the Z wins. No question. I love my MSP, love how unique it is (I know the orange pearl paint isn't for everyone) but really this point doesn't even need to be discussed. The MSP was a great choice when I was in my mid 20s, and I've seen white ones and love them, but still not even close. The MSP looks good, the Z is just plain sexy!

Both interiors are equal IMO, but I am VERY anal about my cars and my MSP with 100K+ miles on it still looks brand new. Took a coworker out for lunch today and they made that exact comment. Plus the MSP has more custom touches the stock 370 doesn't have yet.

---Practicality---
Mazda wins hands down. If I only had 1 car I don't think I could live with my Z. No practical cargo room, no room for the dog... plus it's just too pretty to carry anything other than my GF in

So yeah, they are both great cars, but each in their own respect. I can agree with a lot of the original poster's points and if I could only have one car it's highly doubtful it would be a Z.

Thus, I feel incredibly lucky to have the privilege of being able to drive both

Endgame · 11-19-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXSpeedDemon

Not to beat a dead horse but as a current owner of both a 370Z and a MazdaSpeed Protege I feel I can add some objective input on this. Check out my album for pics and mod list of my MSP. I realize it's a bit different than a Mazdaspeed 3, but it's very similar in performance, handling and practicality.

--- Performance ---
These types of cars are two different beasts. I like to describe my MSP as a mosquito. INCREDIBLY quick, darty, tossible and fun to drive. Steering feedback makes you feel SOOOOO connected to this car (mazda really has this nailed) and you know exactly where you are in relation to it's limits. It really does "feel" fast, even if you're only going 20mph. And it handles like a dream - you would never believe it's a FWD car.

Fully modified my MSP is as fast on the highway as my stock 370. That however is beyond the reasonable limit of the stock block. I had everything you could do to this car without building the motor and for straight line speed got it as fast as my 370 starts at. Most people blew their motors running this kind of boost. Mine held tight for 5+ years (great tune) then popped when my wastegate actuator broke and I spiked at 20psi

My 370Z on the other hand is best described as a missile. When you want to go, IT GOES! And it cruises through the turns nice and smooth. It definitely out handles my MSP - I can take familiar turns at about 5-10mph faster in my Z but I can't really tell how close to the limit I'm at. I will admit this is my first high powered RWD car so I'm no expert at all & it's quite possible I'm not even close to the limit in these turns.... It's just the car is not as confidence inspiring cause I just don't feel as connected to it. I'm sure with more experience I'll get there. 6 years in the Mazda vs 4 months in the Z can't really give the same level of knowledge.

Thus I'm modifying the suspension on the Z first. Hoping to get it up to par before I start building the power level. And for power potential the Z is gonna have so much in the next 1-3 years the options will be virtually limitless. One of the primary reasons I chose this car over a BMW 335.

In short - my MSP is more fun to drive, but my Z is a better performer in all categories. The MSP is a really "sporty" car, while the Z is really a sports car.

--- Styling ---
Hands down the Z wins. No question. I love my MSP, love how unique it is (I know the orange pearl paint isn't for everyone) but really this point doesn't even need to be discussed. The MSP was a great choice when I was in my mid 20s, and I've seen white ones and love them, but still not even close. The MSP looks good, the Z is just plain sexy!

Both interiors are equal IMO, but I am VERY anal about my cars and my MSP with 100K+ miles on it still looks brand new. Took a coworker out for lunch today and they made that exact comment. Plus the MSP has more custom touches the stock 370 doesn't have yet.

---Practicality---
Mazda wins hands down. If I only had 1 car I don't think I could live with my Z. No practical cargo room, no room for the dog... plus it's just too pretty to carry anything other than my GF in

So yeah, they are both great cars, but each in their own respect. I can agree with a lot of the original poster's points and if I could only have one car it's highly doubtful it would be a Z.

Thus, I feel incredibly lucky to have the privilege of being able to drive both

Great post.

I have allways been a MSP fan.... was looking for a clean one when I got my RX8...

molamann · 11-18-2009, 11:53 PM

I wonder what a obvious troll would say when he revives an old thread...?

HT Rambler · 11-19-2009, 01:53 PM

First off there are plenty of people that came here bashing this guy for his comments.Maybe they were warranted. In any event this is an open forem people are here to speak thier mind even the one's that disagree. this is all great reading and entertaining if nothing else.It is very evident that this guy has some knowledge of cars , his opinion may be a little off but that's just opinion. most forums are the same what ever they are driving or selling is the world nothing else matters. I belive we can all have discussion without name calling , bashing etc... if you thinnk thiis guy is full of it cool. If you have an opinion please express it.
Whether he is full of it or not , remember the old saying "don't argue with fools 'cause people from a distance dont know who is who"
This is great reading keep it up you can only tune and mod so much that is why this stuff is important to keep forums alive.
Everyone have a good day and continue....

wishihadnav · 11-19-2009, 02:29 PM

well i use to own an rx-8 and imo its handles bettr than my nismo370..much less power but fun to drive nevertheless.

wishihadnav · 11-19-2009, 02:31 PM

oh btw id take the cayman S outta the bunch if i had the dough..lol.

Sand123 · 11-19-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

In any event this is an open forum people are here to speak their mind even the ones that disagree

Absolutely. When did it become unacceptable to have a healthy debate about cars? Is this a car forum for the 370Z, or is it the Temple of Z and God save anyone who writes anything that might offend the gatekeepers.

Robert_Nash · 11-19-2009, 06:01 PM

Try going to CamaroZ28.com or some of the other GM related forums and start putting down their cars and see what happens.

Even in their topics that are supposed to be about the car industry in general they don't tolerate much dissent.

Pushing_Tin · 11-19-2009, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sand123

Absolutely. When did it become unacceptable to have a healthy debate about cars? Is this a car forum for the 370Z, or is it the Temple of Z and God save anyone who writes anything that might offend the gatekeepers.

So you're telling me if I come over and troll the Mazda message board with posts about how the Z is superior everybody will be calm, welcoming, and engaging...?

Mazdas are fine cars, and if I wanted to have the steering wheel jerked in my hands every day I would own one.

370Z_Fan · 11-19-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wishihadnav

oh btw id take the cayman S outta the bunch if i had the dough..lol.

For the price of the Cayman S I'd get a GT-R.

Pushing_Tin · 11-19-2009, 05:51 PM

torque steer FTL.

10-20-2009, 03:52 PM	#3 (permalink)
theDreamer A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 30,879 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 4211	The idea of a sports car has changed over the years and much harder to define with modern cars. Though must remember certain things: ~Muscle car - Mustang, Camaro, Challenger ~Sports compact - MS3, Cobalt SS, etc. ~Sports car - Z, Cayman, etc. (Note just naming a few) ~Sport roadster - Z, s2000, Miata Each of these has power in some form and excels at something, each can be moved from its current group to another easily with your own definition. __________________ theDreamer's Z // Fast Intentions // Uprev // GTM // HKS // TEIN theDreamer's Silvia // URAS // GREDDY Houston Zs // Facebook // Twitter // Instagram

11-19-2009, 06:01 PM	#12 (permalink)
Robert_Nash Track Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Middle TN/Savannah GA Posts: 762 Drives: '14 Q60IPL/'14Armada Rep Power: 18	Try going to CamaroZ28.com or some of the other GM related forums and start putting down their cars and see what happens. Even in their topics that are supposed to be about the car industry in general they don't tolerate much dissent. __________________ Robert -My Basset Hound Is Smarter Than Your Honor Student and Barack Obama -

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10-20-2009, 02:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
JonBoy Base Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 20 Drives: Bleh Rep Power: 16	A Miata is the essence of a sports car, to me. It's not that powerful but it is focused in its sporting intentions. Drop-top, sporty ride, minimal useful purpose as a vehicle, great gearbox, and very tossable. I consider the S2000 (for instance) to be an even better sports car, mainly due to the better stock suspension and higher power levels, but it's not really any more of a sports car. A number of guys I know own them and track them. With intake/header/exhaust (165-170 whp) and coilovers, an NC Miata is as quick as most S2000s around the track (quicker through the corners, slower on the straights). The stock suspension is somewhat floaty when flogged hard and the car leans a LOT in stock form but a bit of suspension work and an aggressive alignment really works wonders through the corners.

10-21-2009, 01:05 AM	#5 (permalink)
TXSpeedDemon Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 330 Drives: 370Z, MSP, R8, 335 Rep Power: 3371	Not to beat a dead horse but as a current owner of both a 370Z and a MazdaSpeed Protege I feel I can add some objective input on this. Check out my album for pics and mod list of my MSP. I realize it's a bit different than a Mazdaspeed 3, but it's very similar in performance, handling and practicality. --- Performance --- These types of cars are two different beasts. I like to describe my MSP as a mosquito. INCREDIBLY quick, darty, tossible and fun to drive. Steering feedback makes you feel SOOOOO connected to this car (mazda really has this nailed) and you know exactly where you are in relation to it's limits. It really does "feel" fast, even if you're only going 20mph. And it handles like a dream - you would never believe it's a FWD car. Fully modified my MSP is as fast on the highway as my stock 370. That however is beyond the reasonable limit of the stock block. I had everything you could do to this car without building the motor and for straight line speed got it as fast as my 370 starts at. Most people blew their motors running this kind of boost. Mine held tight for 5+ years (great tune) then popped when my wastegate actuator broke and I spiked at 20psi My 370Z on the other hand is best described as a missile. When you want to go, IT GOES! And it cruises through the turns nice and smooth. It definitely out handles my MSP - I can take familiar turns at about 5-10mph faster in my Z but I can't really tell how close to the limit I'm at. I will admit this is my first high powered RWD car so I'm no expert at all & it's quite possible I'm not even close to the limit in these turns.... It's just the car is not as confidence inspiring cause I just don't feel as connected to it. I'm sure with more experience I'll get there. 6 years in the Mazda vs 4 months in the Z can't really give the same level of knowledge. Thus I'm modifying the suspension on the Z first. Hoping to get it up to par before I start building the power level. And for power potential the Z is gonna have so much in the next 1-3 years the options will be virtually limitless. One of the primary reasons I chose this car over a BMW 335. In short - my MSP is more fun to drive, but my Z is a better performer in all categories. The MSP is a really "sporty" car, while the Z is really a sports car. --- Styling --- Hands down the Z wins. No question. I love my MSP, love how unique it is (I know the orange pearl paint isn't for everyone) but really this point doesn't even need to be discussed. The MSP was a great choice when I was in my mid 20s, and I've seen white ones and love them, but still not even close. The MSP looks good, the Z is just plain sexy! Both interiors are equal IMO, but I am VERY anal about my cars and my MSP with 100K+ miles on it still looks brand new. Took a coworker out for lunch today and they made that exact comment. Plus the MSP has more custom touches the stock 370 doesn't have yet. ---Practicality--- Mazda wins hands down. If I only had 1 car I don't think I could live with my Z. No practical cargo room, no room for the dog... plus it's just too pretty to carry anything other than my GF in So yeah, they are both great cars, but each in their own respect. I can agree with a lot of the original poster's points and if I could only have one car it's highly doubtful it would be a Z. Thus, I feel incredibly lucky to have the privilege of being able to drive both

11-18-2009, 11:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
molamann A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,666 Drives: 370Z with NAVVVVV Rep Power: 285	I wonder what a obvious troll would say when he revives an old thread...?

11-19-2009, 01:53 PM	#8 (permalink)
HT Rambler Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pearland TX. Posts: 257 Drives: 2009 370z red auto Rep Power: 16	First off there are plenty of people that came here bashing this guy for his comments.Maybe they were warranted. In any event this is an open forem people are here to speak thier mind even the one's that disagree. this is all great reading and entertaining if nothing else.It is very evident that this guy has some knowledge of cars , his opinion may be a little off but that's just opinion. most forums are the same what ever they are driving or selling is the world nothing else matters. I belive we can all have discussion without name calling , bashing etc... if you thinnk thiis guy is full of it cool. If you have an opinion please express it. Whether he is full of it or not , remember the old saying "don't argue with fools 'cause people from a distance dont know who is who" This is great reading keep it up you can only tune and mod so much that is why this stuff is important to keep forums alive. Everyone have a good day and continue....

11-19-2009, 02:29 PM	#9 (permalink)
wishihadnav A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: 90090 Posts: 1,851 Drives: Force Fed Nismo Rep Power: 184	well i use to own an rx-8 and imo its handles bettr than my nismo370..much less power but fun to drive nevertheless.

11-19-2009, 02:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
wishihadnav A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: 90090 Posts: 1,851 Drives: Force Fed Nismo Rep Power: 184	oh btw id take the cayman S outta the bunch if i had the dough..lol.

11-19-2009, 05:51 PM	#15 (permalink)
Pushing_Tin A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 2,875 Drives: E63 AMG Rep Power: 228	torque steer FTL.