Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 2337967)

I've never had to fight against a live axle. Not sure where you are getting that from.

Originally Posted by StangerGT (Post 2337972)

I dont have issues with mine... :confused:

I think you are drinking the cool-aid on the whole concept that a live axle being hard to pilot.

Originally Posted by Caustic (Post 2337984)

Perhaps "fight" was too strong a word. And just because you don't have "issues" doesn't mean that the setup isn't inherently working against stability and control.

Originally Posted by Tazicon (Post 2337990)

Sounds like the same argument for a SRA? Is it an older concept? Yes. Does it still work well? Yes. Has technology passsed this point? Yes. But do some still have the knowledge to make it work? Yes.

Originally Posted by Caustic (Post 2337946)

Maybe you are the one that is talking about stuff no one even brought up in the manner you seem to think. First off, I am not arguing against Billy in the slightest. Billy owns an NSX, is an active member of NSXPrime, and has contributed to our community immensely. He is a great source of information because he is so connected to the car community.

Originally Posted by Caustic (Post 2337946)

I was pointing out in the quote that m4a1mustang used from Billy about live axle, that Billy was speaking from a professional perspective. I went further to say that for the rest of us, a difference between the two systems (SRA, IRS) is consistency. A professional driver masks the weaknesses of the live axle, where people like us have to fight against it.

Originally Posted by Caustic (Post 2336905)

Or just go for a car with with an IRS suspension which everyone in this thread has already admitted is the superior solution.

Originally Posted by Red__Zed (Post 2337853)

IRS is a superior framework that allows for superior designs...it doesn't guarantee them.

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 2337930)

Just remember, no brakes. Don't ever use your brakes. You have IRS. It will save you.

Originally Posted by JohnYu (Post 2338017)

No brakes ? What ? Don't really understand ..

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 2337999)

If you like pina coladas...

Originally Posted by JohnYu (Post 2338017)

No brakes ? What ? Don't really understand ..

Originally Posted by Spikuh (Post 2338015)

Cool story bro, thanks for the monologue. :rolleyes:



This is a correct statement to an extent and I do not disagree with you here, nor in your first post. Professional drivers can bring out the most of any vehicle because they have the skill level to do so.

But making blanket statements like IRS > SRA or:



is categorically wrong no matter how you try massage the message. Don't believe me? Go back to picture story where I talked about a 20+ year old IRS design and both the IRS design of the 370z and the SRA design of the Boss 302. The IRS design of the 240sx is less capable than both the 370z and the Boss 302. Period. There is no disputing that. I even explicitly stated the point of the picture just because you can't leave stuff like that to chance and rogue interpretations.

Here is another example. Take the old Mustang IRS setup. It was bad. So they abandoned it and went back to the SRA setup. Lots of reasons for it being bad, but doesn't change the fact that it was bad. Does that make SRA > IRS? For that instance, on that car, on that chasis, considering the car as a whole...absolutely. Does that make SRA > IRS in general, as a blanket statement or rule? Nope. Just as Red mentioned:



Notice the caveat. It is important.

If people want to make blanket statements about suspensions it should at least be:

IRS should be better than SRA assuming it was well developed. If people were making THAT point, then there is nothing left to say really.

But they aren't, which is the problem. And because they aren't, it is misinformation.

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 2338019)

It was a joke bro. Use your brakes. :)

Originally Posted by Caustic (Post 2338025)

LOL, at your beginning sarcastic comment.

Saying IRS is better than live axle in a general track setting is not categorically wrong. Physics and engineering says it is better.

Saying a badly setup IRS vs a well setup live axle is whole different argument, and also a useless one.

Originally Posted by StangerGT (Post 2338002)

Can most of the people here really understand/appreciate the difference? No. Will it matter to them outside of a spec sheet? No. Is it low hanging fruit which one may use to say why the Z is better? Yes. Does this really matter? No. Is most of this crap just flamming misinformation? Yes.

/argument please? :ughdance:

Originally Posted by Tazicon (Post 2338060)

There was a reason I deleted the comment but you responded too fast.

I agree /argument please. FYI I wasn't agruing just making a point.

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 2337999)

If you like pina coladas...

Originally Posted by Spikuh (Post 2338054)

Don't know if you are disagreeing with anything, so I am just assuming you are not. :tup:

Originally Posted by caustic (Post 2338086)

sounds like naked group hug time.

:ugh2:

Originally Posted by Caustic (Post 2338086)

Sounds like naked group hug time.

:ugh2:

Originally Posted by Spikuh (Post 2338093)

I got the wine coolers!!! :tup:

Originally Posted by Spikuh (Post 2337909)

It is the blanket statement that IRS > SRA that is problem. But there are also some statements that say "mustang can't handle because SRA".



Here is an example of where you are wrong.



Another example.



This indirectly implies it based on his previous posts in the thread. But mostly, it is just a blanket statement about American vehicles in general so YMMV.



And here.



Here too.



+1



And I think I will stop here. Someone on Page 4 for me.

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 2337912)

The only time I ever say anything is when I see misinformation being spread. I did the same thing on the Mustang boards if someone made some stupid comment about a Z.

If you take offense to someone disagreeing with misinformation... oh well.

Originally Posted by StangerGT (Post 2337994)

This may cause some butthurt... but the reality of the situation is... the Mustang vs 370z comparison is actually a good one... as they both offer good performance for the dollar, and although one may have a muscle car image (which some cant get over), they are both very close in many ways.

People cross shop these cars... and that is why you see many posts.

And however painful it is to think that the mustang is one of its main rivals, even tho there are a billion of them on the road, and they have a horride live axle... You dont have a crap tone of 911 drivers coming on here resulting in an argument...

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370 (Post 2338097)

Oh yeah.... angelo's post. One post dude. :ugh2:

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan (Post 2338120)

Now that THAT is out of the way...

So I think the FR-S/BRZ is a much better car than the Z, despite it's lack of horsepower, and if you don't agree, you just don't get it.

Discuss.

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan (Post 2338120)

Now that THAT is out of the way...

So I think the FR-S/BRZ is a much better car than the Z, despite it's lack of horsepower, and if you don't agree, you just don't get it.

Discuss.

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan (Post 2338120)

Now that THAT is out of the way...

So I think the FR-S/BRZ is a much better car than the Z, despite it's lack of horsepower, and if you don't agree, you just don't get it.

Discuss.

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370 (Post 2338136)

:icon18:

I wish a "real" Ferrari 458 italia owner would join the forum just to humiliate ,Z mustang and Fr-S lovers.

And not that 360 modena guy who traded a $110,000 ferrari for a 42,000 nismo and still coughed up $3,000 down to soften his debt ratio. :roflpuke2:

Originally Posted by JungleZ (Post 2338134)

Glorified corolla , great track project. Who really takes that many twisties on the streets? Sucks to have a car look that fast an barely get past a v6 accord

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370 (Post 2338136)

I wish a "real" Ferrari 458 italia owner would join the forum

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan (Post 2338152)

See, man, you just don't get it. You don't need power to have a great car.

Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 2338158)

You don't count Fabio's hot wheels 458?

Originally Posted by Chuck33079 (Post 2338160)

This is actually true to a point. Sometimes it's fun to take a slow car and beat the living **** out of it and barely break the speed limit. It's the rental car paradox.

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan (Post 2338167)

yeah! I love that you can have fun and do wild drifting power slides, all @ <20MPH!

Sure, that's mostly because that's the only speed it can manage to do those things at, but that's totally beside the point!

Life's all about the journey, it doesn't matter how quickly you get to where you going. Especially in a sports car!

$30,000 well spent, IMO.

Originally Posted by Sh0velMan (Post 2338148)

You really ARE that dense, aren't you? :shakes head: