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m4a1mustang 05-28-2013 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by /Angelo350Z/ (Post 2335564)
I'd do my research, but I don't really care enough. Do Mustangs have independent rear suspension yet?

Nope. But everyone should know by now that doesn't matter.

/Angelo350Z/ 05-28-2013 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 2335566)
Nope. But everyone should know by now that doesn't matter.

Why is that? Because ultimately the new GT keeps up with an M3 on a track?

Just curious what your opinion is.

m4a1mustang 05-28-2013 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by /Angelo350Z/ (Post 2335580)
Why is that? Because ultimately the new GT keeps up with an M3 on a track?

Just curious what your opinion is.

Because it hasn't really hindered performance, and contrary to what most believe live axles are not always inferior to a independent setup.

Here's a bit of what Billy Johnson had to say on the matter over on S2KI. Billy races the Roush Mustang in the Continental Tire series and has also done some NASCAR road racing.

Quote:

It's been said that the recent 'purist' viewpoint/train of thought has shifted the generally accepted consensus that IRS (Independent Rear Suspension) is superior to stick-axles when it is not necessarily true. While the camber gain and bumpsteer of IRS can edge out a stick-axle in peak mid-corner grip, it can become a disadvantage on entry and especially exit of corners. "The fastest accelerating cars in the world have stick-axles". By maintaining an even rear platform, stick-axles have inherent advantages that at the end of the day, can be as good if not better than an IRS. In many cases its harder to make an IRS work better than a stick-axle, pending rules of the series, which stick-axle design you are looking at, etc... But at the end of the day, in CTSCC, a ~stock geometry Mustang out handles and comes out of corners better than the E92 M3 but currently due to rules, the M3 outbrakes and has more power to out accelerate the Mustang on the top end.
Ultimately you end up having to move to a IRS setup on a street car (next gen Mustang is going to be IRS), but not necessarily for performance reasons. For one, you don't have to design a chassis with a big ole hump in the back to fit the rear axle. This gives you more efficient use of space and would actually make the rear seats of the Mustang useful.

There are more reasons we could get into, but the bottom line is as far as performance goes, the solid axle is not the crutch that most like to say it is.

m4a1mustang 05-28-2013 07:56 AM

Anyways, back to the OP, I just realized you've already got your NISMO. Since you've only had it for 3 months... keep it!

/Angelo350Z/ 05-28-2013 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 2335594)
Because it hasn't really hindered performance, and contrary to what most believe live axles are not always inferior to a independent setup.

Here's a bit of what Billy Johnson had to say on the matter over on S2KI. Billy races the Roush Mustang in the Continental Tire series and has also done some NASCAR road racing.



Ultimately you end up having to move to a IRS setup on a street car (next gen Mustang is going to be IRS), but not necessarily for performance reasons. For one, you don't have to design a chassis with a big ole hump in the back to fit the rear axle. This gives you more efficient use of space and would actually make the rear seats of the Mustang useful.

There are more reasons we could get into, but the bottom line is as far as performance goes, the solid axle is not the crutch that most like to say it is.

I appreciate the informative response. So everybody knows this but me? Man, I really have been busy. Anyway, I'll reserve my judgment and do more reading.

m4a1mustang 05-28-2013 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by /Angelo350Z/ (Post 2335607)
I appreciate the informative response. So everybody knows this but me? Man, I really have been busy. Anyway, I'll reserve my judgment and do more reading.

Let's face it, the Mustang *shouldn't* be live axle. It should have ditched it a decade ago. But they didn't. And it didn't help that for the longest time they handled like crap, so everyone just assumed stick axles can't handle. By the time they actually put together a serious chassis and got the geometry right... that's a hard stigma to shake.

/Angelo350Z/ 05-28-2013 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 2335609)
Let's face it, the Mustang *shouldn't* be live axle. It should have ditched it a decade ago. But they didn't. And it didn't help that for the longest time they handled like crap, so everyone just assumed stick axles can't handle. By the time they actually put together a serious chassis and got the geometry right... that's a hard stigma to shake.

Have you taken your Mustang on a track? If so, which one?

m4a1mustang 05-28-2013 08:12 AM

Haven't tracked it. I don't have a Mustang anymore though. 2013 "Dat Blue Doe" 370 now. :)

/Angelo350Z/ 05-28-2013 08:15 AM

What do you know, turns out we have the same car. High five.

m4a1mustang 05-28-2013 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by /Angelo350Z/ (Post 2335620)
What do you know, turns out we have the same car. High five.

Best color ever! :tup:

Caustic 05-28-2013 10:17 AM

The whole live axle vs IRS is a ridiculous debate. Billy Johnson is right from a technical standpoint. But he is also speaking from a professional standpoint, which most of are not.

The main difference between a live (stick, solid, or whatever you want to call it) vs IRS is grip and consistency. When a wheel connected to a live axle hits a bump, both wheels are affected in terrible ways. It completely throws off the handling to all but the best of drivers.

IRS is a benefit when a wheel hits a bump, the opposing wheel is still settled, the handling characteristics on the opposing wheel haven't changed. This creates consistency and predictability for handling in the majority of conditions.

The point being is that when you see Mustangs closing in on M3 lap times, everyone points it out as the Mustang being as fast and as good as the M3. But the reality is these those lap times are close because professional drivers have the ability to correct for the Mustangs weaknesses.

You put weekend warrior track day drivers in those two cars, the driver in the M3 will consistently outperform the Mustang driver by a large amount. The Mustang driver will have their hands full every time they clip an apex and roll over rumble strips.

Live axle technology is good for just one thing, price. If there were little difference between live and IRS, why does every high end race car have IRS?

/Angelo350Z/ 05-28-2013 10:33 AM

I've ran my 350Z on the Nurburgring more than a hundred times. Honestly, there's no way a car with a solid axle will be as quick as something with independent rear suspension, same weight, similar suspension modifications, and driver skill. Still, I wanted to know what m4a1mustang had to say about the Mustang. I never drove a car with a solid axle on the Nordschleife, but I have on the Autobahn. Honestly, it's really not the same. The elevation changes and entry speed on the Nurburgring will definitely cause a problem for a stock Mustang, or any other car with a stick axle. Not all race tracks are flat.

UNKNOWN_370 05-28-2013 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymondo510 (Post 2335394)
Well said

I second that. :iagree:

/Angelo350Z/ 05-28-2013 10:43 AM

Just a few pics :tup:

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/..._7476577_n.jpg

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/...06369480_n.jpg

UNKNOWN_370 05-28-2013 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang (Post 2335523)
But in the US, most people are shopping on price. Someone that "wants a sporty car" is going to look at every sporty car in their price range.

That type of buyer is far more common than an enthusiast that says "I want a Z" or "I want a Mustang" or "I want a Corvette." I'll go out on a limb and say that most people that actively post on this forum didn't even have to think about buying their Z.

I test drove everything bruh. Some i test drove twice. It took 3 test drives on the Z before i bought it.

Thats why i call Fanboy on a lot of comments on here.:ugh2:


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