The whole live axle vs IRS is a ridiculous debate. Billy Johnson is right from a technical standpoint. But he is also speaking from a professional standpoint, which most of are not.

The main difference between a live (stick, solid, or whatever you want to call it) vs IRS is grip and consistency. When a wheel connected to a live axle hits a bump, both wheels are affected in terrible ways. It completely throws off the handling to all but the best of drivers.

IRS is a benefit when a wheel hits a bump, the opposing wheel is still settled, the handling characteristics on the opposing wheel haven't changed. This creates consistency and predictability for handling in the majority of conditions.

The point being is that when you see Mustangs closing in on M3 lap times, everyone points it out as the Mustang being as fast and as good as the M3. But the reality is these those lap times are close because professional drivers have the ability to correct for the Mustangs weaknesses.

You put weekend warrior track day drivers in those two cars, the driver in the M3 will consistently outperform the Mustang driver by a large amount. The Mustang driver will have their hands full every time they clip an apex and roll over rumble strips.

Live axle technology is good for just one thing, price. If there were little difference between live and IRS, why does every high end race car have IRS?

I've ran my 350Z on the Nurburgring more than a hundred times. Honestly, there's no way a car with a solid axle will be as quick as something with independent rear suspension, same weight, similar suspension modifications, and driver skill. Still, I wanted to know what m4a1mustang had to say about the Mustang. I never drove a car with a solid axle on the Nordschleife, but I have on the Autobahn. Honestly, it's really not the same. The elevation changes and entry speed on the Nurburgring will definitely cause a problem for a stock Mustang, or any other car with a stick axle. Not all race tracks are flat.

I second that. :iagree:

Just a few pics :tup:

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/..._7476577_n.jpg

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/...06369480_n.jpg

I test drove everything bruh. Some i test drove twice. It took 3 test drives on the Z before i bought it.

Thats why i call Fanboy on a lot of comments on here.:ugh2:

Drivers correcting cars weaknesses???? You make too much sense Caustic. Don't you know mustangs are just superior. period. NO EXPLANATION NEEDED. :ban:





:icon17:

Only the fanboys sound like that. Or just insecure Z owners that think every 5.0 owner is out to prove their car is superior.

I don't think it's necessarily a solid axle thing. It's more geometry and the overall setup. The total package.

The type of bump that is big enough to upset the wheel on the other end of the stick will also wreak havoc on an IRS system.

For recreational use, the biggest downer is the lack of rear camber. You have to do all you dialing in via the front wheels, and the rear is basically a fixed quantity.


Your claim about the average joe being faster in the m3 is interesting.

2011 BMW M3 Coupe vs. 2011 Ford Mustang GT Comparison - Motor Trend

Drivers 2011 BMW M3 2011 Mustang GT
JOE 92.07 sec 91.52 sec
PRO 87.67 sec 87.76 sec



The major benefits to independent rear isn't so much isolation as it is adjustability. It's not an inherent property of a multi-link system either--it requires quite a bit of time to get right, and most commercial vehicles never get it finished...the A curve should look familiar to any serious 370z drivers

http://www.panteraplace.com/Tech%20I...eering%202.JPG

The IRS is a much better system--it offers less unsprung weight and a wide range of adjustability that race teams are able to take advantage of. The mustang will do well when it gets one, but to pretend the car isn't capable because of it is laughable.

wow another one of these threads? pure troll bait.

IBTL :facepalm:

Damnit Red pretty much said what I wanted to say.

This is it in a nutshell. My angle has never been to say that solid axles are better, only that they aren't as bad as many lead on.

If you are ever in DC let me know. I want to buy your azz a beer!

go test drive both and buy what you like :ugh2:

This is surprisingly almost always the right answer. The only exception is if you care about what other people think more than you do about what you drive.

Both cars are great in their own ways, and feel completely different. Get behind the wheel and see what feels right.

What I was eluding to with posting that video is the Nismo can be plenty competitive to a Boss with just a few changes. We can all tell that Boss runs away from it every time there is a stretch. OP has a Nismo already, it's plenty capable. I think the Boss 302's are amazing cars, just look at that thing pull! I say keep it, boost it if it's his thing and wants more power. If he's still not satisfied, it's his decision and money to do what he pleases.

you don't have to run away :tup:


WRT the video, there's a lot more to that than just the car modifications.

Well said. Test drivers make the Mustang's look much better than they are. Applies to any street car of course. That being said the suspension and lack of quality overall keep me out of US performance cars. I had 2 Corvette's and a Z28 earlier in life. Rattle traps and lack of quality. No thanks. Performance sure. Life and driving are much more than that.

Uneven pavement at speed in a turn will bring a Mustang to life in a bad way catching many out!

Naw... problem here is... people act like the 5.0 is the only other sports car in the world. What's fanboy is fanboy's consistently protecting their favorite cars rep against the 5.0 or vice versa.

In the end of the day. All these cars perform well on the street. Where most azzholes are driving these cars anyway. Everyone is always bringing a different position on their favorite sports car to override the next car. At the end of the day, a weakness in a sports car is a weakness. none of us drive ferrari's. All of y'all need to get over yourselves. Fvck Z's and Fvck Mvstangs. Neither car is perfect. Just enjoy your cars and stop trying to burst each others bubbles.

Ps caustic made hella sense when he talked about professional drivers. A cars weaknesses can be overcome by a driver with enough seat time. It's a point that's always negated in the forum. That rule applies to any car.

As long as it's a sealed bottle and not a mugg!!!! :icon17:

:bowrofl:

Agreed, driver has stones, boulders perhaps.

He also came out to our BBQ last summer. :tup:

Maybe I can finally keep myself stateside long enough to actually get out to some of these events for once :)

But keeping it on topic, My Pops standard 11' GT premium (Track Pack) with some light mods was in a different league than my car. Well, before the superchargers. It was just brutal. I stomped the pedal and the torque was just merciless to the 9.5" Pirelli's

Yeah mine was a monster with its mods. Good fun!

No one is claiming the Mustang isn't capable because it doesn't have IRS. My post was to point out the claim that a live axle is nearly as good as IRS is laughable. You can certainly say the Mustang is less capable because of it.

I didn't go into all the other benefits that IRS gets over a live axle because it was unnecessary to illustrate the point.

If you hang around long enough, people do. That's the only reason we bring it up.

I think we all know that a perfectly designed IRS system will be far better than a perfectly designed live axle... but show me a perfectly designed IRS in this price range. ;)

Live Axle does have certain LARGE advantages on SOME tracks. But IRS is the superior street suspension hands down. Which is where most you slouches stay driving... That's why most above average street vehicles have IRS. Any 30k-60k sports car will need mods to the IRS to make it ideal. End of story. No 5 figure car is perfect. Many 6 figure cars aren't perfect.

Are these still the right skid pad number for "street" vs "track" grip?:ugh2:

IRS is better overall hands down. No one has ever questioned that. I know myself and Dan are always quick to point out that just because something has a solid axle doesn't mean it can't handle, because we've BTDT. So many people assume stick axle = can't turn AT ALL! That's all this has ever been about.

But, since it's the internet, and we all need something to do while we're at work... ;)

Water under the bridge, man. Those days are over.

That was an article i had read a few years ago now, Mustang Gt street vs Track. But couldn't find that article again cuz i don't remember who published it.

What's your fvckin point Red in bringing a 2+year old post?

What's your basis for your claim?

We established there was no article the last time this came up.

I pulled up to a stop light on the way to work this morning..........., 2 Cameros, 3 Mustangs and one Challenger.

To me that speaks volumes as I see tons of all 3 of those cars. They must be alright in someones book. I personally like cars you may not even see once a week........that is unless you are my neighbor.

No, we established i couldn't find it.

You know what bugs me out... That post that upset you so... I STILL wasn't saying anything negative. Let's pretend just for the sake of pretending i never read that. "Which i did?" I still didn't say anything negative about the stang. It wasn't derogatory, and if you think about it. The GT suffers from lots of roll and pitch anyway... So it's not totally inconceivable for it to drop off some G's under certain conditions anyway being an LA.

So why does it get under your skin so. If no one believes that it's not a budget M3 it pisses you off that much???

Fvckin fanboys damn!!!

Google

For added motivation, I will PayPal you $500 for this magical article examining the grip levels on "streets" and "tracks" for the brembo mustang

Oh it just got real.

I love these comments... As they show the lack of understanding in terms of the globally interconnected automotive industry... :rolleyes:

Its just a ford/nissan tho... AmIrite? (this is rather out-of-date btw)
http://yeinjee.com/discovery/wp-cont...stry-chart.jpg

And FWIW... I dont have any issues with my iron beam out back... even on the street :eek:

There was a stock old GTI at my last HDPE... and he was beating everyone... :tup:

I dont think the majority of people who argue this stuff even plan on going out and pushing it to any noticable potential.

I just want to hard park outside of Starbucks and watch for Jeep SRT8s.