Diamond in the rough.
 

I consider the Z to be a good car with great potential. My question is what mods MUST be done to fix the factory design defects that make this car mediocre when it could be great.

Below is a list of what I believe to be the basics (or key weaknesses if you will) That MUST be addressed in every 370Z. What Key weaknesses have I missed.

1. Steering lock (duh)
-Needs the steering lock fuse pulled/or voluntary recall at a minimum (duh)

2. no oil cooler
- unforgivable defect but easily retrofitted. (I used stillen 25 row kit)

3. Horrible clutch feel on 6mt
- many solutions from removing the stupid assist spring to a full clutch replace. I went full on with a JWT, but do we all agree the OEM clutch sucks donkey balls and should be considered a must fix or is it just me???

4. Failure prone CSC.
- I did mine when puling apart tyranny to put in JWT. Is it worth swapping before failure?

5. Massive 25 lb Flywheel.
-Is this a poor designby Nissan? I think so!!! I put in a much lighter JWT flywheel and did not notice increase in vibration, but did notice much better throttle response.

6. TUNE!
- why don't they all come engine tuned to NISMO specs. Why do I have to put it up on a dyno (4-600 bucks) to get the same tune a nismo has stock??? That's just stupid marketing bs IMHO. It would cost Nissan nothing to flash all EDCs with the nismo data no?

7. Horrible road noise.
-From day one it has been criticized for road noise by everyone from R&T to my wife. I know sound-proffing is heavy (for you track bubbas), but a little engineering effort to help buffer the howl is definitely needed if you DD (I put some dynamat in key spots, but it still screams on some surfaces)

8. The "sport" VLSD. (let alone the base "open" one!!)
-this thing is terrible. A real locking 1.5 or full 2 way (or at least a helical gear type) is a must unless you only bought the car for looks in which case this thread is wasted on you.

9. hatch springs
-I mean come ON Nissan

10. unnecessary Hatch weight
- so stupid that some have and some dont, even the factory kinda addresses this by only putting them in like half the cars.

I realize this is not a full wish list of things we would all like to do, more a list of the things Nissan should have done at the factory.

Although awesome, I did not include things like:
HFC/CBE
Twin turbo or SC
better sways
better Stereo (though I almost did)
Pilot super sport tires
...Because they are mod/improvements not really design flaw fixes.

So what have I missed. what do you guys think is really broken or just poorly done?

In summary, for a few thousand bucks you can turn a pretty, though unreliable turd into a "real" sports car capable of holding its own against other "real" sports cars.:stirthepot:

What have I missed??

Adjustable front camber arms. This is another wtf type issue. Is it really too much to ask to be able to adjust front camber?

overall i think the Z from the factory is an awesome car. Could it use some improvement, of course, but to call it a turd is going a little overboard IMO as no matter what brand or model of sports car that you choose out there, there is always going to be someone that thinks that the engineers could have done something better on the car or that one particular aspect of the car could use some improvement.

Yeah "TURD"was pretty strong word.
But....
-failed CSC will ruin your day
-failed steering lock will strand you in the rain and ruin your day
-non functioning hatch from weak springs will annoy you every time you fail to get your hatch open
-no oil cooler will force you into limp mode the minute you try to drive like a sports car (ruin your track day)
-no brake cooling will put you into the wall at a track (I didnt include this in my must list but i thought it might come up

I LOVE my 370! but it was a Diamond in the rough stock. Turd? okay maybe not, but definitely not what it should be from factory.

Sorry if I offended this was meant to be a "make it better thread not a :stirthepot: thread. I appologize to you and your Z:tiphat:

no offense taken at all dude, i know the Z from the factory in previous model years hasnt been up to snuff in some departments, but gotta give nissan a tiny bit of credit for addressing at least a few issues although i admit they should have been fixed sooner rather than later. overall though the Z is still an awesome feeling car when driven how its supposed to be and the reason why i picked it again over all the other options that are out there in terms of sport/sporty cars when i decided to order another one after my previous Z went to a better place.

I'm not bothered by the road noise. Each to his own I guess.

#3 that RJM clutch pedal will do wonders, it's absolutely incredible

Ive noticed it has a lot to do with what kind of roads you drive.

In California it was usually like thunder in there
in Colorado the roads are smoother and I usually don't get bothered but there are a few loud stretches. (that is WITH dynamat in hatch)

I'd say the diamond could use a little cleaning, but it aint all that rough.

Only real issues for me are the need for better brakes (even the sport brakes are lacking), and better throttle mapping (one of the most basic aspects of the tune that needs work).

Different LSD would cost more; Nismo tune is part of what you pay for in getting the Nismo; oil cooler was finally addressed in '12+.

The other things (e.g., hatch poppers) are pretty minor issues to me. For about the same money it's either a suped-up pony car or a much slower FR-S/BRZ. For me the Z wins every time in terms of the overall package.

1. I removed the fuse, and I think the recall is stupid. Rev D is prone to failure as well - there's at least a couple documented cases on this forum from even before the recall. Good job, Nissan :ugh2:

2. I will get one before I ever spend significant time on a track, but I've been on a number of multiple hour long hill country cruises in the Texas summer heat with no issues.

3. I agree with Z_ealot here, but I am amazed at the number of these claims, which apparently means it's not just you. I agree that the stock clutch package could be a LOT better for the Z, but I don't have any problems with the clutch and can drive it perfectly smooth. It can be clunky when you miss a little, but it matches the personality of the car IMO - a little rough and raw :yum: In comparison, my Honda Accord 6MT stock clutch was buttery smooth even at 120K miles when it finally started to go.

4. You are right that it seems to be garbage, but I agree with Z_ealot in that I've got 35K+ on mine with no issues. But I would definitely replace it if doing any other clutch work.

5. Seems to be on par with the rest of the stock clutch package :ugh2:

6. Again, I agree with Z_ealot - it was fine for me. Although I couldn't pass up an incredible deal of an EcuTek tune plus comparison dynos for the cost of the license, and it just so happens my car is at the tuner this weekend :tup:

7. I agree with you here, but I think the criticism is baseless. Nissan putting thought into road noise isn't something I expected in the Z (a Benz? sure); I mean look at how noisy the sport pkg tires are - that's an easy swap if noise is a concern. I put GT Mat Onyx in my hatch, and it made a noticeable improvement. I am hoping to put some in my doors as soon as I find the time. I don't care about the weight. If you do, then you shouldn't care about the noise. I thought most tracks make you roll down your windows anyway.

8. Absolutely agree with you here as well. This thing is garbage, and not acceptable for anything other than DD.

9. Same as Z_ealot - I don't have a problem with my 2011.

10. I went through the trouble of removing the weight only to find there wasn't one in my hatch to begin with :icon14:

I definitely plan to purchase the RJM clutch pedal assembly that diddy recommends. For a great price, I think it will take care of most of the problems that people have with the clutch (i.e. the engagement, not the actual clutch itself). I love the number of adjustments you can make to it.

I agree with Jordo about the brakes, though I don't think you need a big brake kit and/or brake cooling for anything but the heaviest of track use. It seems that for light to medium track use, you can get away with a set of quality rotors and pads.

The big one I think you forgot is the fuel starvation issue. This is just absolutely unacceptable to be an issue in a potential race car application where less fuel equals less weight.

:iagree: Good one! I have not had starvation but I've considered the thousand dollar fix anyhow (I don't like surprises) have you wound an off-ramp yet and lost power??

Honestly, I never have, despite putting myself at risk nearly every tank. I go way less than 1/4 tank, but I've never had a problem in my DD. I've almost always got a full tank before I go out for spirited driving - you never know where you might end up :icon17:

This can happen to you if you don't keep the car full

http://imageshack.us/a/img710/6766/20120504213738.jpg

I have never had a issue with fuel starvation and that sucker has read 15 till empty before.

I do agree with the oil cooler issue getting up to 250 here under normal driving conditions.

never had this issue with my Z, but then again i never took it to the track...what most people forget though is that there have been quite a few people over on the FR-S forums complaining about the same fuel starvation issue as well, so it's not a problem limited to just the Z unfortunately.

Your picture is too small. Make it larger please.

:iagree:

:facepalm:

means your assessment went a wee bit overboard

I'm pretty sure that picture just put me over my mobile data limit

This happened to me the other day and freaked me right out. I thought it was the traction control but i wasn't slipping, hell it wasn't even that hairy of an off ramp. I down shifted to 4th at 60 and turned right and WTF! :icon14:

I haven't had it happen on the streets even down to 3 dots. On the track though I made the mistake of letting my tank go down to 1/2. Exiting out of a completely flat right hander, full power in 2nd, then almost redlining 3rd I completely lost power for a solid 2-3 seconds. Happened again the next lap but for even longer so I had to pit :(

Two fixes I understand

1.phunks fuel pump. (Awesome but expensive at 1000 bucks)
2. Fuel cell. (I don't know anyone who has done it on a DD)

Brings the cost of making the Z into a real ( or capable if you prefer) sports car up by another thousand bucks (with non factory/ non-warrantee parts).

So what's the count now? $3-4000? Still an awesome car and its still fun to mod but whew that's not great for a car supposed to be track ready from the box...

If it makes us feel better, an M3 (E36?) owner told me he needed an extra fuel pump too, to fix fuel starvation.

On the streets it is tougher to have happen as going left sends the fuel sloshing back. I don't face many long right handers.

I have a 2013 and honestly I agree with most of your statements but the road noise. I haven't really heard any rattles nor noise while driving. And I drive in CA where roads blow.

Well said. If you want more you pay more. The Z has always been a capable car at a REASONABLE price. If you want Porsche capability and engineering, then the local Porsche dealer will be happy to see you and bill you accordingly.

:iagree: Sounds like the OP has no real experience with a true "mediocre" car - which makes him very fortunate! :)

I wasn't aware that the car was supposed to be track ready out of the box. Has it ever been marketed as such?

Thread=:yawn:

They'll install a tow hitch??? :shakes head:

Yes package 576

Just kidding

The e36 is the generation that ended in 99.


There are other cars that have the same issue, the s2000 among them, but it's particularly bad in the Z.

say what?

Oh, he said:

Don't care because........ roadster :tup:

Two comments from the OP:

1.kinda true
2. Thank GOD above for that!!!

I did drive a ford probe (total FWD crap!) and a Miata (fun but reeeeeealy slow) for awhile though.

I've had the fuel starve when at 1/2 tank. I thought I didn't have that issue until I took a sweeping on ramp to the highway in a "highly spirited" fashion then the engine just died. I was mashing the pedal "WTF'ing" for about 5 seconds when she just came back to life and continued on. I guess I incidentally clutch popped the engine back on haha.

What is this extra weight you speak of in the hatch? I don't recall ever hearing about this. Her hatch doesn't seem overly burdensome but then again I've never opened anyone else's hatch. Or maybe I just like my women with heavy rear ends! :rofl2:

I'm sorry but I don't agree that it is 'in the rough'. A diamond in the rough would be a car that consitantly appears in the lower half of comparative reviews. The Z, -over all- (please don't pull one or two bad comparatives), lands in the middle of the pack. Nissan made compromises to keep the car's cost down and some of them didn't pan out. Just be happy we -can- turn them in to true mini-Godzillas. You could be stuck with a 2.5L that already has a turbo in it and that won't benefit from coil overs or what ever.

There are cars that can out accelerate it, that can out corner it, that can out brake it, that can out anything it. But over all it is a solid car and -very- reliable. That to me describes a finished diamond. Granted...the grade may not have an 'Ideal' across the board but it is a finished diamond.

Z owners are, IMHO, -way- too hard on the car. I think it comes from very high expectations that are a result of a love of the brand; a love that comes from a history of meeting high expectations.

I'll take a steeering lock issue any day over trannys that fail every 10k miles or engines whos internals fail after 40k.

I'm of an opinion that the road noise issue has slowly and quietly been addressed over the years by Nissan. I don't really hear this complaint from newer models, and my own newer model is perfectly fine for a sports car.

By the by, something that could take this thread to a new place would be maybe linking each issue/fix from the first post to a key thread or two about the topic.

wow! you demand a lot from me!

but hmmm let me hit the big ones!

1.Steering lock fuse pull. Wow what a great DIY mod! 20 minutes because I'm an idiot and dropped a leather-man tool down into my bay
http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-g...lved-real.html


2. no oil cooler
- unforgivable defect but easily retrofitted. (I used stillen 25 row kit)
http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivet...peratures.html

3. Horrible clutch feel on 6mt
- many solutions from removing the stupid assist spring to a full clutch replace. I went full on with a JWT, but do we all agree the OEM clutch sucks donkey balls and should be considered a must fix or is it just me???
http://www.the370z.com/drivetrain-en...el-stroke.html
http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivet...er-spring.html


4.Failure prone CSC.
- I did mine when puling apart tyranny to put in JWT. Is it worth swapping before failure?
http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivet...-failures.html

5. Massive 25 lb Flywheel.
-Is this a poor designby Nissan? I think so!!! I put in a much lighter JWT flywheel and did not notice increase in vibration, but did notice much better throttle response.

http://www.the370z.com/drivetrain-en...-shipping.html

6. TUNE!
- why don't they all come engine tuned to NISMO specs. Why do I have to put it up on a dyno (4-600 bucks) to get the same tune a nismo has stock??? That's just stupid marketing bs IMHO. It would cost Nissan nothing to flash all EDCs with the nismo data no?

I don"t have a DIY link but just... well get it done!

7. Horrible road noise.
-From day one it has been criticized for road noise by everyone from R&T to my wife. I know sound-proffing is heavy (for you track bubbas), but a little engineering effort to help buffer the howl is definitely needed if you DD (I put some dynamat in key spots, but it still screams on some surfaces)
http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-g...bin-noise.html

8. The "sport" VLSD. (let alone the base "open" one!!)
-this thing is terrible. A real locking 1.5 or full 2 way (or at least a helical gear type) is a must unless you only bought the car for looks in which case this thread is wasted on you.
http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivet...t-package.html

9. hatch springs
-I mean come ON Nissan
http://www.the370z.com/diy-section-d...ing-issue.html
and
http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-w...ase-issue.html

10. unnecessary Hatch weight
- so stupid that some have and some dont, even the factory kinda addresses this by only putting them in like half the cars.
http://www.the370z.com/diy-section-d...ing-issue.html

Whew and that was just a super quick search of the issues I mentioned

let me reiterate:

I LOVE MY 370Z!!!!!!

stop hating on me! I just feel like there was a lot to fix to make it go from troublesome and unpolished to amazing

Most of these fixes are almost free. Some are not

Example:
Right hand fuel starvation(http://www.the370z.com/track-autocro...l-product.html) Which only effects those of us who drive this car either on the track, or like the kick butt sports car it was born to be, is a THOUSAND bucks to fix! I call that a bit "in the rough", but don't hate on me, mine is fixed, and I love it!:tiphat: