Car and Driver's Cars Worth Waiting For: 2016 Z

UNKNOWN_370 · 05-26-2013, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdfsammich

I hope you're right. It need to be GTR-like not by competing with the GTR segment (super cars) but GTR-like because they figure out how to make it perform best in it's own segment (sports car/coupes) while still being less costly.

Evolving from these ideas and our current looks would be a huge win.

Exactly. I hope the render and the rumors are way off.

Tapatalk2 ...

Yeah, the Z doesn't need to copy Mustang, Corvette or any American cars like so many suggest. We don't need to copy, drive or feel like them behind the wheel. We just need to look in our own Z history and see what worked in the best Z's and combine it.

If people think the Z should beat stangs etc... I think people should plan on buying stangs etc in their future.

Just remember this is a Z forum when you go on the other side...

I think that render is a massive fake. I think C&D's info is unimpressive, false "gahbidge".

doink · 05-27-2013, 01:08 AM

Its all about price. 370z came put right during the recession with a price increase. Majority will agree that they love the car and the looks but its just expensive. Look at the BRZ/FRS market. They are slow as hell, cheap interior but very stylish exterior. Cheap price and they are flying off the lots. I bet if the z is 20k, it would easily beat camero/ mustang sales.

But I do love the exclusivity. Its just a nich market, either they cant afford it, or if they do.... perfer more high end market.

BigT · 05-27-2013, 09:08 PM

My boss bought a fully loaded, auto 350z back in 2003 for 29k out the door. I fully loaded 370z in 2009 was 40k. The target market changed quite a bit and affected sales. Most 370Z owners are older guys with money. But, its the young guys that are buying car's by the butt load. Unfortunately, not many young guys can afford in the 30 to 40k price range and the ones that can are buying Evo's and STI's.

zeeder · 05-27-2013, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigT

My boss bought a fully loaded, auto 350z back in 2003 for 29k out the door. I fully loaded 370z in 2009 was 40k. The target market changed quite a bit and affected sales. Most 370Z owners are older guys with money. But, its the young guys that are buying car's by the butt load. Unfortunately, not many young guys can afford in the 30 to 40k price range and the ones that can are buying Evo's and STI's.

You can't really compare someone getting a great deal with MSRP. In 2003, MSRP for a fully loaded 350 was about $36-37k iirc.

The BlueMax · 05-27-2013, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZBro16

I don't see them reducing displacement, but I do see a revised valvetrain, which is the cause of many of the woes of the current engine (oil temps, high end coarseness).

The VQ 3.7 has no displacement increase, they got the .2liter increase through a longer stroke. Picked up some top end horsepower along with the coarseness, but no troque increase which is a common pickup in V8s

Z_ealot · 05-27-2013, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigT

My boss bought a fully loaded, auto 350z back in 2003 for 29k out the door. I fully loaded 370z in 2009 was 40k. The target market changed quite a bit and affected sales. Most 370Z owners are older guys with money. But, its the young guys that are buying car's by the butt load. Unfortunately, not many young guys can afford in the 30 to 40k price range and the ones that can are buying Evo's and STI's.

yeah, gonna have to disagree with you as i am one of those young guys and would much rather have the Z over those other two options. As far as the 350Z when it came out in 2003 the fully loaded MSRP was around $36k so i'd say thats not very much of an increase for a fully loaded Z, your boss was just good at minipulating the dealer is all to get that $29k price he did. one interesting thing i did note however when reading a motortrend article for the 350Z when it came out was that even back then they were complaining about the interior noise on the 350Z lol.

Z_ealot · 05-28-2013, 12:18 AM

Found a little bit more news to fuel the fire here, Bank of America/Merrill Lynch car wars analysis forecast just came out and while the main parts of the article are about the upcoming mazda3 they do mention redesigns of the GT-R and Z as coming out in 2017, here's the link to the article for anyone who wants a quick read: We Hear: 2015 Mazda3 Accidentally Revealed? - WOT on Motor Trend

b15 · 05-28-2013, 06:20 AM

Do people that keep bringing up base prices of 350z vs 370z have an understanding of the global economy and what has happened to the yen over the years? It seems the vast majority of people think Nissan just throws an arbitrary price on the Z and calls it a day. Keep in mind this car is not built in the US and how that impacts pricing compared to a Mustang...

UNKNOWN_370 · 05-28-2013, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b15

Do people that keep bringing up base prices of 350z vs 370z have an understanding of the global economy and what has happened to the yen over the years? It seems the vast majority of people think Nissan just throws an arbitrary price on the Z and calls it a day. Keep in mind this car is not built in the US and how that impacts pricing compared to a Mustang...

You're asking people to think man. Shame on you!!

LOL, jk, but nissan still has some control and in a couple of areas can do a better job for the price. Look at what features make it over in luxury company brands that start in the mid $30's. Nissan can still invest another $1,000-1,500 in the cars and still turn a good profit

/Angelo350Z/ · 05-28-2013, 06:46 AM

I would pay between $50K to $60K for a 400+ hp Z that weighs close to 3100 lbs and can compete with a 911 Carrera S. I wouldn't mind paying more for a little more exclusivity and performance.

m4a1mustang · 05-28-2013, 06:51 AM

I don't think Nissan wants to target the 911 with the Z.

b15 · 05-28-2013, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

You're asking people to think man. Shame on you!!

LOL, jk, but nissan still has some control and in a couple of areas can do a better job for the price. Look at what features make it over in luxury company brands that start in the mid $30's. Nissan can still invest another $1,000-1,500 in the cars and still turn a good profit

Agree, they can tweak some things but its still a great package out of the box for the price.

m4a1mustang · 05-28-2013, 07:07 AM

Imagine if the Z dropped 200 lbs and picked up a few ponies and torks, all while shifting some of it's nose weight back on the chassis... that would be huge!

Red__Zed · 05-28-2013, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNKNOWN_370

Yeah, the Z doesn't need to copy Mustang, Corvette or any American cars like so many suggest. We don't need to copy, drive or feel like them behind the wheel. We just need to look in our own Z history and see what worked in the best Z's and combine it.

If people think the Z should beat stangs etc... I think people should plan on buying stangs etc in their future.

Just remember this is a Z forum when you go on the other side...

I think that render is a massive fake. I think C&D's info is unimpressive, false "gahbidge".

The 240Z did a killer job of targeting the Mustang and Camaro...that path has worked well for Nissan and I expect they will continue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The BlueMax

The VQ 3.7 has no displacement increase, they got the .2liter increase through a longer stroke. Picked up some top end horsepower along with the coarseness, but no troque increase which is a common pickup in V8s

What do you mean with the bolded part?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck33079

This is the problem in a nutshell. It needs to be better to compete at its current price point, but the improvements cost money. It's a fine line between improving the car and killing sales with the price. I'd hate for the Z to get killed off again because the market won't support a $45-50k Z. It'll never have Mustang/Camaro sales. It's much more of a niche product than the domestic pony cars.

It may have become one, but it wasn't historically. Nissan estimated sales of 30K per year with the 370Z and targeted 45K. They certainly didn't build it to be a niche product, even if that is what is has become.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nismodean

The price isn't the problem, the people wanted something to look good and sound good but not be really that good. Quality, people, costs money. Which is why the 370Z costs more than the 350Z. Bigger engine, better interior, more hp/tq, bigger brakes, better technology! You won't get that sh¡t for the same price from the last model. Try to be more realistic please! I mean come on... 35K for the best dollar/performance sports car is NOT bad. I'm about to go out and drive my 370Z and love it, you guys go ahead and stare in misery at yours.....

Since when are Akebonos an upgrade from Brembos?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS_Firehawk

Remember that the price they sell it for directly results in the value of the yen. The yen was getting stronger against the dollar for the past few years. It wasn't until recently that it started dropping again. Building a car for X amount of yen, then selling it for X amount of dollars, they need to have a profit margin. Sure there is a few thousand in every vehicle, but it is not out of line with the profit margin of a car that is similarly equipped. Now if they are able to build the Z here in the states, they can reduce the cost for manufacture, but they still need to sell enough to justify that investment. Look at what Subaru and Mitsubishi gives for their sports cars. A turbo 4 banger, AWD and not much else, but it costs the same. Nissan isn't alone in this price conspiracy.

A turbo AWD 4 banger from Subaru costs $24K, not almost $40k.

The additions to the top-tier Subaru and Mitsubishi are real cost-add items like Recaros seats. They may not have value add to everyone, but they affect the bottom-line and there are plenty willing to pay for them.

UNKNOWN_370 · 05-28-2013, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by /Angelo350Z/

I would pay between $50K to $60K for a 400+ hp Z that weighs close to 3100 lbs and can compete with a 911 Carrera S. I wouldn't mind paying more for a little more exclusivity and performance.

Would you really? That Z better change to an MR platform for that kinda money. You're buggin!!! PDK and other upscale tech is a huge reason for porsche upcost. We don't have tech like that to be paying that much money.I think the american car market proved you can have over 400hp for 33k. Add Z quality to it. $43k

Ughh... The Z benchmarks as a budget Cayman, not 911.

05-27-2013, 09:08 PM	#93 (permalink)
BigT Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: NJ Posts: 469 Drives: 98 2g DSM Rep Power: 13	My boss bought a fully loaded, auto 350z back in 2003 for 29k out the door. I fully loaded 370z in 2009 was 40k. The target market changed quite a bit and affected sales. Most 370Z owners are older guys with money. But, its the young guys that are buying car's by the butt load. Unfortunately, not many young guys can afford in the 30 to 40k price range and the ones that can are buying Evo's and STI's. __________________ 2014 Jeep GC 1998 Talon TSI awd 2011 Z Sport - SOLD

05-28-2013, 06:20 AM	#98 (permalink)
b15 A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 3,229 Drives: 4drz Rep Power: 36571	Do people that keep bringing up base prices of 350z vs 370z have an understanding of the global economy and what has happened to the yen over the years? It seems the vast majority of people think Nissan just throws an arbitrary price on the Z and calls it a day. Keep in mind this car is not built in the US and how that impacts pricing compared to a Mustang... Last edited by b15; 05-28-2013 at 06:23 AM.

05-28-2013, 06:46 AM	#100 (permalink)
/Angelo350Z/ A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Germany Posts: 2,230 Drives: Z34 \| MK7 \| F82 Rep Power: 3660	I would pay between $50K to $60K for a 400+ hp Z that weighs close to 3100 lbs and can compete with a 911 Carrera S. I wouldn't mind paying more for a little more exclusivity and performance. b15 and Tick64 like this. __________________ 2013 MB NISSAN 370Z SPORT

05-28-2013, 06:51 AM	#101 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	I don't think Nissan wants to target the 911 with the Z. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

05-28-2013, 07:07 AM	#103 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	Imagine if the Z dropped 200 lbs and picked up a few ponies and torks, all while shifting some of it's nose weight back on the chassis... that would be huge! b15 likes this. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

05-27-2013, 01:08 AM	#92 (permalink)
doink Base Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 26 Drives: 370z Rep Power: 13	Its all about price. 370z came put right during the recession with a price increase. Majority will agree that they love the car and the looks but its just expensive. Look at the BRZ/FRS market. They are slow as hell, cheap interior but very stylish exterior. Cheap price and they are flying off the lots. I bet if the z is 20k, it would easily beat camero/ mustang sales. But I do love the exclusivity. Its just a nich market, either they cant afford it, or if they do.... perfer more high end market.

05-28-2013, 12:18 AM	#97 (permalink)
Z_ealot A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 2,045 Drives: 09 370Z Touring/Sprt Rep Power: 10090	Found a little bit more news to fuel the fire here, Bank of America/Merrill Lynch car wars analysis forecast just came out and while the main parts of the article are about the upcoming mazda3 they do mention redesigns of the GT-R and Z as coming out in 2017, here's the link to the article for anyone who wants a quick read: We Hear: 2015 Mazda3 Accidentally Revealed? - WOT on Motor Trend

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