One of them said that a turbo charged version of the BRZ's FA engine will be going into the new WRX/STi, but not in the BRZ itself.

The sources for the Cayman has not been confirmed, nor has a renowned automotive publisher said anything regarding this. It doesn't make sense that they would put a turbo 4 in another Porsche either. Noone will buy a 911 with a flat 4, noone will buy a Panamera with a flat 4, noone will buy a Cayanne with a flat 4, maybe if they offered a smaller SUV, but why would Porsche compete that low in the market?

I obviously like FI, as I'm having two superchargers being slapped on my car, I don't dispute that FI has done amazing things for the tuner market, so I agree with you guys on this. I just like seeing a confirmation from the automaker. Sometimes the things we ask for are terrible ideas. Thunderbird, Chevy SSR, PT Cruiser, Prowler (needed a V8), Aztek?!?, reinvented Cougar (thank God they euthanized it) I think we all can agree, anything that improves upon what we have today is a move in the right direction, regardless if they go NA or FI

The regular BRZ at my local dealer has a $31k sticker on it. It is fully loaded with nav and a couple other dealer installed accessories. There is no way a turbo version won't be close to $40k.

I think your the only one that gets it in my opinion. Smaller displacement forced induction is the key for many reasons.

Engine Ideas:
- BMW still uses an inline 6 turbo making rediculous power and torque (See Series 1 M)...I would suggest Nissan consider a lighter weight inline 6 Turbo. This will not only lower the weight of the car (Perhaps 50 to 100 lbs) but it will fix the biggest issue the Z has...Weight distribution. Does it have to be inline...No but a smaller forced induced 6 would be ideal. Everyone likes big HP numbers but spinning tires does not equal performance. Power to weight ratio does.

- Let's not hate on the idea of a smaller engine (I have to admit I kinda do). Look at it this way...Hyandai did one thing right...It gave 2 options. A 4 cycl and a 6. Nissan should do the same to help bring there MPG numbers up.

Chasis Ideas:
- The technology for affordable light wieght exists. My old car (Mazda Rx8) weighed in north of 2900 lbs and it had 2 more seats, doors, and a bigger trunk (none of which are requirements for the Z). My point is the Z still has weight to shed and using all/partial aluminum frame is feasible. I would say they should focus on making materials in the front lighter.

Drivetrain:
- I wish for a rear mounted tranny like the Vettes and Porsches...mmmm...but reality sucks!

You dont have to do much...smaller dispacement v6 or i6 turbo and more use of Aluminum. Outcome will be a 3000 lbs car with 350 + HP with better handling. You want more torque...well a lighter car will feel like it has a crap tone more torque at the same HP/TQ numbers we have now. Throwing HP and TQ does not work if it is not engineered to fit the chasis.

Now wouldn't the idea of a modern 300Z TT with the specs mentioned above be nice... :excited:

:iagree:

Caveman, how is an inline 6 with turbo's lighter than a naturally aspirated V6 with no turbos? Displacement doesn't necessarily change the size of the motor. The physical size of the VQ hasn't changed, just it's displacement. Same with the LSx motors range from 5.3 all the way to 7 liters... physical dimensions are the same. Then you add the weight of the turbo's, intercooler, piping, strengthened components. It will not be lighter. 4 cylinder turbo motors don't save much weight over a V6. And to make an existing engine physically smaller, well that's pretty much impossible without redesigning it entirely.

I think you failed to read through this thread entirely. Not only that, your comparing an RX-8 of all things. It had a chassis specifically engineered for only one car, had a rotary that weighs very little, again used on only one car, and a drivetrain made to handle it's puny 159 lbft of torque. The RX-8 was an expensive vehicle to engineer. They did it out of passion, not because it made any sense. Remember that Renault is running Nissan, they won't even entertain the idea. From an engineering and bean counter standpoint, Nissan is not going to move the Z to a dedicated chassis. One thing Nissan can take from Mazda is their skyactive idea. Improve mileage from a combination of sources, which has been posted by myself and others multiple times.

I'm not attacking your idea's as if they are bad, it just doesn't work for this scenario.

But the links quote hearsay or speculation... No facts

I think we have reached the point of no return as far as talking about the next gen Z.

But as far as the BRZ goes. Where do you get that it is speculation? Unless all the news outlets are trolling the BRZ/FRS platform stating they are getting turbo/supercharged treatments respectively. Multiple sources are stating that both Toyota and Subaru confirm that it is in the works.

Subaru confirms turbocharged version of BRZ engine - Top Speed

There really aren't any credible sources confirming this. Look at the dates for the articles you're posting. That one there is from a year ago. More recent articles say that the BRZ STi is going to be N/A. Looks like the plans are to turbo charge that engine for use in the next gen WRX/STi, but not the BRZ.

2014 Subaru BRZ STI To Offer Up To 230 HP Sans Turbo: Report

They want to keep the BRZ below the new WRX/STi so they will not turbo it.

I think that cayman turbo rumor is being confused with the Porsche 961: Porsche 961 confirmed | Auto Express
They won't let the cayman be better than the 911, but they will let another in house mid engine coupe be better.
It seems Porsche is all about making a new model almost every year going into the future.
Whatever they do to the new Z, I would love it to be lighter.

Spot on. I would go for and prefer the small 6 but if a small 4 can meet the goals. I wont knock it for being a 4. In the end, i just want a better performing easier and cheaper to modify Z. FI, for me is my savior because tuning and modifying is much more cost effective for power gains.

The specs on the cayman turbo is only 350hp on a 2.4L turbo 4. The 911 is is a 3.8L turbo 6 rated @ 500hp. How would it be better? The article did say they'd be using the porsche turbo engine on multiple models so, your point is STRONGLY in the valid area.

I am no newby when it comes to engines but I appreicate where your coming from. Your argument is understandable BUT consider today's technology and the fact that I was implying a complete redesign for the engine. The VQ is not exactly on the weight loss plan especially when ancient pushrod technology like the LSx series motors with more displacement are coming in lighter. Now also consider that those motors were designed to allow for varrying displacement. You can only go so far due to the size/design of the block. I further realize turbo equipment will add weight to any engine bay but your talking about perhaps 30 to 40 lbs if done right. With that said if you build a physically small, efficient, light v or i 6 block and add a turbo I believe 1) if Nissan chooses they can make a smaller chasis 2) this design would be easier to cram against the firewall 3) displacement will be up to design and physical dimensions.

Actually, I did read this thread entirely and I saw a lot of bad ideas...Sorry. You missed my point entirely. The irony is that Mazda designed the Rx8 on a McDonalds budget. They only had a hand full of engineers and designers working on it. And you are 100% incorrect as that chasis was shared with the Miata. It is a streched Miata chasis. As far as the drivetrain...Let's see Tranny handles 400 to the wheels (ask the 3 rotor guys)...Drive shaft over 600 wHP...Rear end unknown...I know this because there is a crazy dude I know running a 3 rotor in my neck of the woods and that car was nuts...All being run off the Rx8 drivetrain. You are right though it was out of passion but id did make total sense just look at some of the NAtional Autocross champions and what they are driving Miata's and Rx8's to name a few. It's sales sucked because the engine tech just wasn't there.

As far as the Z going to a dedicated chasis your making assumptions on my part. I assume Nissan is going for a redesign here. They've already implied a smaller platform so I assume they will have a BRZ/FRS competitor with a Z badge and a stretched version of that platform for the Infinity G so I would say the G is going on a diet as well.

My point is that Mazda did something right...They engineered an amazing chasis capable of handling much more power then it came with. Nissan would be wise to pay such attention to detail in there chasis. Small/strong turbo 6 cyl as close to mid-engine layout as possible (attached to the firewall and low) and over engineered drivetrain.

Lol my Honda prelude was faster than an rx8 that car was a joke compared to the s2000 and 350

Oh I meant any Cayman being better than any 911. So a Cayman Turbo would certainly be better than the base 911, especially since the Cayman S is already so close to the performance of the base 911.
I just think it would be weird for Porsche to have a Cayman Turbo AND a 961. Then again I never would have thought Porsche would have an SUV, and now they're going to have 2, not to mention 2 different 4/5 door models (at least) as well.

Put it on a track with more then strait lines and you'd be wrong. The S2000 is the only car you mentioned that I cannot deny was faster in a strait line and on the track from factory but this is not relevant.

Not that it means all that much, but the rx-8 and 350z put down the same time on the Top Gear test track.

I wouldn't call it a shoe string budget, it was worked in secret before upper management got wind of what was cooking.For a company the size of Mazda, I would consider it a hefty sum. It's true components of the chassis and it's design are shared with the Miata, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it the same platform, hence why the chassis designations aren't the same.. The FM platform is used on the Z, G, M, and FX vehicles. Vastly different in size to a 2500lbs Miata. Nissan is only on it's 2nd generation with the platform, it really isn't that old and would most likely prefer to have it play host to another generation of vehicles. Every vehicle using the FM platform has received very positive feedback with regards to the bones.

The VQ designation is a bit long in the tooth, but the engines now only share very basic design elements with the original VQ engines. They have evolved at least once every model generation. Nissan is going to tap that thing out until it's just not competitive. It is the highest performing NA V6 on the market. Even amongst all these brand new engines, it stands above the rest in terms of performance. NVH, different matter :)

Back the RX-8 (I really like the 09-11 redesign and came close to purchasing one). Torque is the real determining factor to when things break. Torque is the amount of force that is applied, not the actual speed of the movement (that's hp). I admit not knowing the full picture with the RX-8 drivetrain, but it really was designed around the characteristics of the Renesis engine. Take a look at how light and small components for Formula cars are! They don't make a lot of torque, but they make a lot of hp. Mazda will only overbuild it to a point, just like every other manufacturer. I don't think anyone would prefer a structurally weaker drivetrain as a cost for weight savings. That really handicaps the aftermarket community.

And BTW, thank you for keeping it clean. Even if we disagree on things, I think it's irritating when someone gets butt hurt when someone else challenges their view.

Yeah but the base 911 is till 3.8litre 400N/A HP which can sustain power longer through the revs with way more continuous torque than a 2.4 l4. the 911 would still be a sub 4 second to 60mph car while the porsche cayman would get 4.4 sec to 60 ONLY with the sport chrono package. Without it, specs sound like a 4.7 to 4.9 sprint. The 911 went through "They cayman is better from 2007-2012" anyway. Many felt though the cayman was slower, it was a truer sports car. Regardless, the 911 is still considered legendary.

Even the miata is getting a 1.3sky activ turbo. lol :tup:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...EUjkg3KPwJ9RCw

Anyone driven a supercharged z4M, that thing felt like an s2k on steroids

My concern about the next gen Z is this....

Look back at all Z's produced PRIOR to the 370Z. In all of the marketing and ads, the names were referred to as the ***Z (insert favorite model). They referred to the 350Z as the 350Z and the 300ZX and the 300ZX. But look at the all of the marketing materials for the 370Z. Nissan does not refer to it as the 370Z, they instead call it just the "Z".

This is not a very BIG thing, but if you pay attenion to Nissan's nomenclature. The *** (300, 370, 240) indicated engine displacement. If Nissan were to release a 1.8L Turbo 4-banger (based on the Juke engine), then it would be referred to as a 180Z. This would be HUGE since it would be the first time Nissan decreased engine displacement and would not follow tradition. However, if Nissan were to install a 2.4L turbo engine and called it a 240Z, it would have puriest outraged that they are attempting to redo the classic '70s 240Z.

With this said, if Nissan conveniently DROPS the *** numerical nomenclature from the title and just refers to the model as the "Z". They can stuff whatever engine they want into the chassis and most people would not care (except the Z purests).

I vote Nissan breaks the mold and goes a performance oriented NA VK56-based V8. Make it the Mustang GT/ Camaro SS killer priced accordingly. This would allow it to be powered LOWER than the flagship GT-R, makes additional power, and would really excite the aftermarket with parts by having one of the first widely available V8-powered sports cars from Japan. Nissan has put a lot of effort in developing the VK56 engine both in V8 Supercars and the LeMans racing series around the world. The only missing part of the equation is stuffing it into a performance oriented street chassis.

Regardless of this turbo nonsense for the likes of Porsche and Toybaru. I want a turbo'd Z next generation. Where is the speculation at on that? Where are the "credible" online sources fleshing this story out? This is insanity! I demand answers :stirthepot:

A V8 Z would be awesome. If you look at Nissan's website, they already call it the "Z coupe" and "Z roadster" dropping the 370 from the name. It only says 370Z when you click on it to explore the car further.

V8 would be pretty cool. Anything but another turbo 4banger.

Lol@Dustin. A VK56VD would really turn the Z into a beast. The two model theme can make a comeback by maintaining the VQ. That would be a serious one two punch. I would sell my Z for a VK56 powered one.

I still see it as a pipe dream unfortunately.

Cayman S has a 3.4L flat 6, 325HP, 0-60 4.7s
Base 911 has a 3.4L flat 6, 350HP, 0-60 4.6s
Torque curves are about the same, as well as same redline.

Sorry for derailing this thread! :tiphat:

I guess I'm the only who saw the jay Leno visit to Nissan where that old guy basically says we're going lighter and more gas savings in mind..

They did indeed do some of the work in secret but that hardly goes on the books. As far as platform...the relationship of the Miata and Rx8 platforms are in relation as the Z, G, M...etc. They are stretched versions on the original dude. If you've ever seen the under carrage of an Rx8 and MX-5 Miata you will see an identical chasis. Everything is the same with the exception of the drive shaft length. It has been frequently cited in being a stretched Miata chasis hence the similar chasis characteristics on the road. I will not deny that it is a stretch to hope Nissan redesigns the Z platform into a new chasis designation to be shared with the Infinity G as well but can you deny this would be ideal for us as consumers regardless what risks to Nissan. I'm dreaming here I know.

I like the VQ...I do...I'm impressed with it. Makes tones of efficient power with a near perfect torque line (not curve cause the thing is flat as hell). With that said the speculation here is that they are changing the engine. If that is the case then what would make sense? Hence my answer.

I know what torque is LMAO! Check this out...you think torque kills drive train? What do you think a transmission spinning 3 times the speed your engine is rated at will do? The rotary has 3 combustion cycles (you know that...dang dorritoes) so a rotary's tranny, drive shaft, and rear end will effectively spin 3 times that of a normal piston varient. Those forces will tear apart a normal transmission and rear end. Hell the Rx8 comes stock with a carbon fiber driveshaft. Now envission it handling a 3 rotor with much more power at those rpms. Put that drive train in a non modified piston engine and it will take the torque just fine (depending how much of course). The reason for the components to be light on a Formula car is two fold. 1) Hi revs need light components to aid in vibration resistance and 2) well cause...less weight is faster. As far as structually weaker it's not. For instance the carbon fiber drive shaft is in fact stronger then most stock shafts. I know what your saying man but the argument does not hold merrit in this case/compareson.

Your lucky I'm lazy...I have a Butthurt meme that is AWESOME!!!

No Dude I saw it too which is why I am saying everything I've said thus far. Yet everyone is spewing v8 comments. Nissan can't make a v8 powered Z handle that well with the current budget. It's a step in the wrong direction. A properly configured chasis and engine combo will kill porsche in the pockets and that should be Nissan's goal. Light weight, knimble, powerful, and bang for buck. Adding a heavy engine only makes muscle car dudes happy. Adding a powerful smaller engine wins races of all kinds.

Agreed 100%. We don't need a V8 in this car. A light powerful V6 would be great. Don't get me wrong I love V8s but I don't think I'd love one in my Z. If I had wanted a V8 car that has similar performance to our current Z I would have bought a Mustang.

I'm not a Mustang fan. It took them 4 billion years to get rid of the live axcel and when they did they practically charge corvette money for it. Puke-A-Licious

Truth be told if Nissan does not shock and awe me I will be getting a used Porsche or BMW M3 next. I would rather have an affordable racer though but we shall see.

Ditto, I'm pretty happy with the power and handling but I'm far from a racer or anything like that. But unless the next gen. Z is something outstanding I'll be going to BMW or even possibly a Mustang again.

You all are insane if you bought this car and didn't think it's outstanding, or you already bought the wrong car for you. And you cannot possibly be serious about a V8 not being able to fulfill the role of powering this vehicle. Let me just shake this down for you

The VK56VD is an already built and engineered direct injected and running VVEL. It's sitting in trucks and luxury cars in a very detuned state. The power curve is comical when compared to any NA V8 it squares off against (Coyote ,Tau, LSx). What you guys want in a Turbo V6, that motor does in spades. All of this cheap modifications for power your talking about? It's easy pickings when you mod a V8, let alone a 5.6 liter. That torque you've all been moaning about, yea, it's all there, off idle, no lag, no waiting for turbo's. In a 3800lbs-4,000lbs car, it's already getting 26mpg.

These last few posts were just comical. You all fail to realize some of the best sports cars in the world use V8's, they don't turn into Mustangs because it had one. It won't weigh any more than the turbo's and intercoolers you want to put on.

There really is not a replacement for displacement when it comes to performance. Turbo's? Put that on the VK56VD and watch it make 600+whp with less than 5psi. Oh you don't want turbo's on it? Some bolt on's and it should easily push 500whp without touching the motor.

This thing made 380whp and it didn't even get to redline! Lost cause man.
I give up, I'm talking to a lost cause. It's like that bum you try to help and he is so f@cked up in the head, he can't comprehend your helping him. That's how I feel. (Not like the bum lol)

Last time I checked, the Vettes are dominating GT class races on a detuned motor. <<<<Engineered to win.

i have read the entire thread. thanks for the all the info.

the question i have though what are the signs of when this may come out? i would assume no sooner then mid 2014 to somewhere around the end of 2015.

sounds like a long time away

: (

Not for a few years.

Link the dyno's I'm referring to from Edmonds Inside line that were done, all on the same dyno.

M56 vs Coyote
http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtest...20vs%20M56.jpg

TAU, LS3,Coyote
http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...spec3_dyno.jpg


THIS IS THE BEST OPTION OF THE 3, though I feel it probably won't happen.

V8 Z would be bad azz and would make me consider getting another Z next instead of the next gen 5.0 or C7. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Nissan modify the VQ37 a bit and just stick that in the new Z. Give it DI or something for a little bit more power/fuel efficiency and be done with it.

I will disagree. I think the rx8's rotary has been one of the worst engines in the last 20 years. How can u make an engine that makes no torque, no real power, burns oil, AND gets crap gas mileage? HOW?? Just when u start getting a hint of power, u are out of revs. Couple that with the fact that it needs to be slightly revved when shutting down to prevent flooding (engine tear down) and the rebuild intervals are at least 2 times more frequent than a normal engine, just makes it an AWFUL engine.

When in the entire history of automobiles has the next generation of a popular, long running model ever made the huge performance leap you V8-promotors are suggesting? Suddenly going from 330hp to 500hp? That's completely absurd.

A jump to 360 or 380, maybe even to 400hp would be more than plenty. Remember that we all bought the Z for its handling prowess. Higher output engines require stronger chassis (more weight), more cooling (more weight), more NVH damping (more weight), stronger driveline components (more weight), the list goes on. Of course all those can be overcome with more expensive engineering (ala Porsche 911, Corvette, etc), but that takes the Z into a class above the $30K market.