Era of the Muscle Car is over
 

After being around 50+ years I've been able to see the evolution and devolution of the Muscle Car and Sports Car. With the fall of GM and Chrysler and the rising cost of gas I suspect that we are at the end of the line for such cars. Only the rich will be able to indulge in performance cars. When I was a youngster I used to see all those old fellows driving Hemi's, Vett's,Big Block Chevy and Fords and wondered If I would ever be able to afford a car with such performance. Well I'm old to do so and glad I lived long enough to finally have a car That I wanted as a Kid. There is so much magic in the internal combustion engine that no hybrid or electric car can ever produce. I also believe that this will be the last generation of the Z once it's product life cycle is through.

Agree about the muscle cars...MotorTrend just said the same thing during their Mustang, Challenger, Camaro comparison this month.

Last generation of the Z though...fat chance. Nissan has a huge Z following and automakers are struggling to be profitable. Unless this Z falls flat on its face with sales, I think we're bound to see more iterations in the future.

I agree with you. Maybe it's an old curmudgeon thing, but I see this onslaught of hybrid, electric, green happy ecology cars coming along with increasing economic, insurance and legislative pressures on performance cars. Generally it's about 5 years or so between car purchases for me and now was the time. I bought my 370Z feeling that this might be my "last chance" to own a great performance car.

Not at all politically correct... and proud of it! What I SHOULD have bought was a Volkswagen Jetta diesel sportwagen getting 49mpg. If gas goes to $5/gal, I may occasionally regret it.

But life is too short to drive boring cars!!

Thanks for posting this thought! :tiphat:

HJM

Have you seen the latest Toyota Prius ad with the happy green car driving up the mountain, birds singing, trees greening, etc. etc.??

Makes me want to puke!

yeh i get the same feeling, like clarkson said about the veyron - its only backwards from here.

IMO, not having grown up in the muscle car era, I just like power and performance. I don't really care how it is delivered to the wheels. The instant torque of a fast electric car some day might be interesting. With the new battery technology out today, I am willing to bet that not far down the road there will be electric sports cars =)

If a LiPo battery pack the size of a brick of soap can power my RC Car at 60 mph for 45 mins...there is hope for electric sports cars some day. Granted the LiPo batteries explode when they are punctured hehe.

Electric sports cars... we'll have to train ourselves to a new soundtrack. Listen to that great WHINE of power!!!

yeh i saw some WRC talking about hybrid lol

The way I look at it. If we are all forced down the path of going green with electric and/or hybrid cars...I at least want a sporty one. Thats all I'm saying :)

Chevy Volt, there's another Tesla something...

600+ HP.

Granted, I don't really know if they can measure HP...electric motors (and, well, engines) are all about Torque.

If the Tesla Roadster ever comes out maybe it can try to redefine the sports car. But you can see the effects of going green and playing it safe. Automakers are beginning to shy away from sports cars and that is why I have a Nissan now. Everyone else seems to be getting scared.

Roadster is out currently, cost is about 100,000 plus. Tesla's new car is the Tesla S which is a family sedan. I agree though, "green" is the new hot topic and car companies are jumping at finding the next big thing. I hate to say it but electric is not the answer, yet.

Sure this might be the death of the muscle car but I think it will be the rebirth of the traditional sports car. There's going to be a big push to make smaller lighter cars now that people realize how big an enemy weight is. So sure the giant V8's and possibly V6's are not long for this world with the advances in direct injection and turbo's there's still a bright future for performance cars.

The era of muscle cars as we known it may be over but sports cars will continue to evolve. I think people will figure out how to mod and race just about any form of transportation. Come back 50 or 100 years. Moon buggy races in low G may be a lot of fun.

Never American Muscle CAR!!!!!!!!!! will never END. It's in are blood.

I couldn't agree more. The old Colin Chapman line, "For more speed... add lightness" applies. My Sentra SE-R was about 2100 pounds and went damn well with only 130hp. I've driven a Caterham Super 7 which is under 1500 lbs, and it was a hoot! DAMN fast, and very visceral (but a bit scary next to an 18-wheeler on the highway).

I continue to watch in horror as each generation of cars add more weight and need to increase engine size to return decent performance. I hope the new focus on efficiency starts to drive weights back down, but the costs of exotic materials and the safety and content requirements of new cars make this a difficult engineering challenge. I'd be really happy with the same power-to-weight ratio as my 370Z in a 2000lb car! :driving: I'm sure it would get a lot better fuel mileage. But I still wouldn't want to meet a Chevy Tahoe head-on...

HJM

Check out the Top Gear episode where there test the Tesla. While it had intoxicating acceleration, there were some huge drawbacks. For example, they made it 50mi on their track before the battery died...and it only takes 16 hours to recharge. They had a few other problems too that I just can't recall right now.

Brakes broke, and also over heating..

Actually by out I mean in production and not just a few released. Tesla is struggling in so many ways right now.

duh duh duh...
the government is winning.

Insert________sadface

I think that the muscle car will be here as long as it by itself if a profitable car. what we will proboboly see is that they are going to be made cheaper and cheaper and only having minor upgrades over the years to come. Example is the mustang, the mustang was barely changed from the last generation to this generation. While the Z on the other had, from 350z-370z is almost a completly new car.

End of the muscle car? I didn't think so. but after going to the track and seeing a stock 370z beat a brand new Challenger SRT8 which has over 400HP on a STRAIGHT line. I don't know what to say.

Always question authority!

Some people consider the Z as the "muscle car" of Japan compared to the likes of a RX8.

As a prospective engineer, and one who just spends hours on researching cars, it somehow never fails to impress me when you have cars with massive displacement being destroyed by cars like the 370Z, light, aerodynamic, and ... smaller displacement.

Talking to a friend who is currently an automotive engineering major, he essentially tells me it is now the age of tuners, at least in a performance light. I just wonder how cars like the '66 Chevelle had only four gears, torque that would blast off the line, yet after reaching a peak speed of 120 mph, be easily destroyed by some random Japanese tuner with a much higher maximum speed.

lol this is madness.

The Mustang isn't going anywhere... and I know not to mess with them because if you run across a boosted mod motor you're toast. Those things are sick.

I'm sure you guys haven't been paying attention (and why would you?) but the 2010 GT500 is putting down 490rwhp and 511 lb-ft STOCK.

Take a stock GT500 and swap the factory blower out for a 2.8L Kenne Bell and its 752 rwhp and 681 lb-ft. And the car will take it over and over and over.

Don't get me wrong... I love my Z. It's an awesome sports car and it's great what it can do with only 3.7 liters (and it's a boost monster, too!)... but I bleed Ford Blue. There's nothing like driving a v8 Muscle Car. Nothing. It's one of the best things in the world... I can't wait 'til I'm able to have the best of both worlds.

Oh,the Mazda RX-8 'drinks' more fuel than the 370z,but only produced 231 bhp,the only advantage is lower road tax[only in S'pore] & can sits 4 persons.

But GT500's aren't even stock to begin with!

You're right, I haven't really been paying close attention to what Ford is doing. The retro styling thing kinda lost me. My first Mustang was a 97' GT with a whopping 215hp. Ford wasn't getting any love with the early mod motor. Really liked the car but it didn't have any guts.

LOL if it comes from the factory that way, it's stock! :tup:

Yeah, the first go at the mod motor was pretty weak. Not until the 99-04 models did we really begin to see what kind of potential these cars had.

With only 260 hp and 302 lb-ft stock they weren't too formidable (could run a 13.9 with a great driver)... but everyone quickly found out they loved some gear. My NA '03 4.6L ran a 13.6 with 4.10s in place of the stock 3.27s... crazy!

Then the '03 Cobras came along to really fire home the fact that the mod motor demands boost.

The 3-valve 4.6L in the 05's and up is just awesome. Like the Z, the car is "detuned" out of the factory. Restrictive exhaust, intake, and very conservative tune. With bolt ons and a canned tune they run 12s easy.

Add in a helping of boost and you've got a 500+ rwhp daily driver that you can count on to last you forever. Hell, the 2010s even have an optional factory FRPP blower... so it's conceivable that the brand new "stock" '10 GT is packing a little more than 315 hp... more like 500-600! :icon18:

Like I said before... can't wait 'til I can park a 2010+ GT next to my Z. I'll be in car-guy heaven! :bowrofl:

I see a lot of upside in all of this. We are seeing evidence of it now. BMW giving us a 300 hp 3 series that can be easily boosted for nasty power. Next gen M3 will most likely use a turbo engine, M5 M6 most likely as well and lightened. If all this noise brings us back to lighter weight, that for me at least, is a huge win.

I love the current M3, but honestly I loved the E36 2700 pound M3 for. It was just a far more balanced enjoyable car. If we go back to lighter weight and engines that can handle boost, we get the best of both worlds.

Looking at F1.. They constantly try to slow these cars down, dropping displacement, all kinds of rules. The engineers are always a step ahead and can usually or in some places exceed prior years times by advancements in other things besides raw HP.

Audi has talked about dropping weight, just about everyone is. I am stoked. I have never been into Muscle Cars, I would like to see them around.

I find it pretty cool the Americans can produce something like a CTS V, which has the fastest 4 door production time around the 'ring amidst bankruptcy. I can only wonder how their current situation would differ if they would have been doing this kind of engineering all along

Check out this bit of fun on Ford's new "EcoBoost" engine program.

Jalopnik - EcoBoost Goes Drag: Ford Flex, Lincoln MKS Hit The Strip - Lincoln MKS EcoBoost

So yeah... M6 drivers who can't drive... don't mess with Grandpa in the 13-second Lincoln!

Yes hybrids are taking over the common car and I personally think that is a really really good thing. I don't see why we have to think the two are mutually exclusive though. 95% of drivers don't really care how many liters their engine has, they just need to get from point a to point b. The car is a tool so it is OK for them to drive hybrids; more gasoline left for the rest of us to burn ;). The other 5% include all of us who are reading this and frankly I don't think it is the end of the muscle/sports/super car at all. Mercedes Benz is still making 650hp 6+ Liter twin turbo monster daily drivers and people are still buying them. I see new supercars coming out of the woodwork these days. Even McLaren is coming out with replacements for their F1 and a new car to compete with Ferrari and Porsche. Zonda is still in business with 7.3L V12's. Le Mans still has 50+ cars.

This whole "green initiative" is going to become just part of everyday life as time goes by and all the rage becomes normality..

I dont know...Im not all that worried...

Off topic but...I get a major dose of nostalgia when I think of what "was" vs. what "is" regarding muscle cars. I had the great good fortune to be able to drive a new dark blue, white convertible topped, Hurst floor shift equipped, 389 CID GTO (the first muscle car, some may argue) for an extended period. It belonged to a buddy who was a midshipman at the Naval Academy who left it with my roommates and me in Annapolis while he was on cruise before graduation. It was 1965, I was 21, unencumbered and invincible, and god how I loved to take that car on the back roads in southern Maryland and let it all hang out. The experience hooked me forever. Recently I happened to see several GTOs of that vintage being sold for staggering amounts at a Mecum auction. It was no surprise that the buyers looked like guys from my generation. Ok, back on topic.

The government has too much authority over the car industry now, and there are too many people that have given a ton of money to politicians to make sure we all buy into this unproven global warming deal.

Sports cars will still exist, but they will be harder to get in the states. Someone mentioned the CTS-V. It is an amazing and beautiful car. It also carries a $7,000 gas guzzler tax. That isn't a lot of money for a Ferrari or a Lambo, but for a $70,000 car it can be. The United States will no longer be the primary target market for car makers. Countries like China and India are embracing capitalism while we are moving away from it. Those countries have far more population than we do and they sure aren't concerned about global warming. China is buying up oil reserves at a record pace.

I don't see it as 'over' but perhaps limited in terms of how many power V8s are out there to choose from.

:iagree: your right on.. the mid-level sports car "i think" will be the most endangered. 70k+ cars will still be around but the 70k car will now be 90k and so on up the line.

I know right! Nobody is that happy :shakes head:

Also may I add. I haven’t been keeping up with the news as far as all this gas / oil / global warming honkey. But If we are truly running low on oil. Hopefully the brainiacs of the world can create a hybrid gas that will be able to replace our regular gasoline with out having to change any major engine components in our current cars. Wishfully thinking in a perfect world. Because I dont see myself driving a hybrid in the near future.

We really aren't running out of oil. I'm sure you will start hearing about "peak oil" again once gas prices climb over 3 bucks a gallon, just like we did last summer. We also heard about "peak oil" in the 70's during the gas crunch. That was over 30 years ago. The fact is that right now the oil supply is very high, and demand is also low. OPEC nations are holding it back because they want to artificially drive the price up to $100 a barrel. Our government is more than happy to see them do this because the only way to get people to buy these crazy cars they are pushing is for gas to come close to 5 bucks a gallon.

My question to those that believe in all of this global warming BS is this: What good does it do to have a country of 300 million people crippling their economy to keep the planet green when China and India have a combined population of over 2 billion and they are polluting at a record pace? Unless we put a "Simpsonesque" dome over our country our efforts are really wasted. Even if man truly is destroying the planet, then we might as well "somoke em' if we got em'", because a majority of the planet's population is not going to do anything to stop it.