370Z May, 2009, sales lowest since launch......

semtex · 06-08-2009, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R1jamn

"Martyrdom"

Do you take pride in humiliating, discrediting and insulting other forum members personal opinions?

Scratch that last question. It's obvious you take great satisfaction in it.

Nothing was deemed in our responses to this thread that would imply that you should not enjoy your new Z. Let me be opened minded and congratulate you on your worthwhile purchase on an otherwise fine vehicle.

I will respect you as a forum member. But respect begets respect.

Rather Nissan has left many of us with a significant level of pessimism.

The "Hot Oil" concern is a mountainess quandary.
It is difficult to give Nissan a large field of lattitude on this subject.

For those of you that voice your concern, I will applaud you.
For you should be proud to be a REAL ENTHUSIAST AND NOT JUST SHEEPLE.

Since when did it become cool to flame people for doing some research prior to buying? You know what would happen if someone bought a Z, then came onto this forum and expressed dismay at the oil temps? Some of you same people would probably flame him/her for not doing doing research prior to buying, and say that it's his/her own fault.

Case in point. Take this thread for instance: Did I just get ripped off? What should I do?! Guy up in Canada makes a post wondering if he got screwed. And look at one of the replies he got:

Quote:

the dealership lied and your mad at nissan? that doesnt make sense. if anything, its no fault but your own for lack of research. everything you need is on the net....

Now, had he posted some gripe prior to purchasing, you guys would label him a naysayer and accuse him of making up excuses to not buy. You'd tell him that if he can't say something nice, don't say anything at all, and then accuse him of just being jealous, etc. Talk about a no win situation.

ChrisSlicks · 06-07-2009, 08:53 AM

Part of the drop in sales has to be self induced, they cut production so much that there is now almost no inventory of Base Sport 6MT's, one of the most popular configurations.

Rans · 06-07-2009, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

The actual problem isn't really that bad if you don't regularly track the car. (To be fair, some would argue that point and note that they've hit high temps even in regular driving.) What has people so riled up is that even if you're willing to install your own aftermarket oil cooler at your own expense (which many people are), Nissan is taking the position that if you do that, they'll void your warranty. So it's adding insult to injury. First they don't bother equipping the Z with an oil cooler -- this when every Z that they released to the press for testing and evaluation was equipped with hidden oil coolers. Then they have the audacity to penalize us if we decide to add our own.

Thanks Semtex, that gives me a better perspective on this. It does seem kind of cheesy of them. Looking at all the mods you've done to your car, are there any warranty issues there? Or is Nissan ok because it is all external?

semtex · 06-07-2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rans

Thanks Semtex, that gives me a better perspective on this. It does seem kind of cheesy of them. Looking at all the mods you've done to your car, are there any warranty issues there? Or is Nissan ok because it is all external?

It wouldn't surprise me if Nissan tried to make an issue of my mods if I ever submit a warranty claim (knock on wood). And to be honest, if I have some problem with the emissions system one day and they blame it on my exhaust mods, okay, that's fair game. That's not something I'd pitch a fit over. I wouldn't like it, of course, but I accept the risk.

In my view, however, there's a two-fold difference with the oil cooler. First, an oil cooler is a protective device. Its purpose is not to yield more power (like intakes and CBEs, for example), but to protect the engine. Why penalize someone for going the extra mile to protect their engine? I mean, with that logic, they might as well penalize folks for using high-quality synthetic oil that 'goes the extra mile' in engine protection beyond the minimum standards documented in the owner's manual. Doesn't make sense to me. Secondly, the fact that they themselves equipped the vehicles they supplied to the press fleet with oil coolers is significant. How can Nissan penalize someone for doing something that they did themselves with a straight face? Let's go back to my exhaust mods for a moment. I've said that if they deny me warranty coverage based on my exhaust mods, I can live with that. But what if we were to discover that the Z's they supplied to the press fleet were secretly equipped with Stillen exhausts and Berk HFCs? That'd change the landscape, wouldn't it? It's just a hypothetical, obviously, because the Stillen exhaust didn't even exist at the time. But it still serves to illustrate the point I'm trying to make here, which is that it doesn't make sense for a company to penalize customers for doing to their cars what the company did themselves.

But this is just my view on the issue. I'm sure others may see things differently, and that is certainly their prerogative.

wellarmed · 06-07-2009, 11:11 AM

What Nissan needs to consider is..... this oil temp issue going unresolved is real bad press for the market that they are trying to sell this kind of car to.
The question is....... can they be slapped awake enough to do the right thing.

I'll bet the people at Nissan who engineered this car, knew it should have a cooler and wanted it to have a cooler, but got over-ruled when it came down to comming up with that final price point.

They let some bean counter decide to take care of the oil over temp issue by using the built-in 'limp mode' and "that took care of that!"
No doubt that sounded like the perfect sollution for keeping some 'enthusiest' from overheating the motor to him.

The problem is... that looks exactly like what it is. A halfassed shortcut to save money at the expense of necessary engineering, and at this point their response to what to do about it now is looking alot like what many of us came to expect from Detroit.

Maybe Nissan should go back and consider exacxtly why so many Americans stopped buying the big three and starting buying Honda/Toyota/Nissan.

Maybe the current economy and the decision to curtail production related to that will hide the fact that there may be a significant number of potential 'enthusiest' buyers going elsewhere due to the oil temp issues. Nissan will probably only see that they have demand equal to what they're making now and not care about doing the right thing.

antennahead · 06-07-2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semtex

The actual problem isn't really that bad if you don't regularly track the car. (To be fair, some would argue that point and note that they've hit high temps even in regular driving.) What has people so riled up is that even if you're willing to install your own aftermarket oil cooler at your own expense (which many people are), Nissan is taking the position that if you do that, they'll void your warranty. So it's adding insult to injury. First they don't bother equipping the Z with an oil cooler -- this when every Z that they released to the press for testing and evaluation was equipped with hidden oil coolers. Then they have the audacity to penalize us if we decide to add our own.

I agree, but to keep everyone in perspective, "if" you live in a hot climate zone, you can hit 260 pretty easy with "non-track" driving....... I have done it twice and wasn't pushing the car that hard. I've stated this in another thread....... I don't want a freebie, just make something available for purchase (Nismo or Nissan Motorsports), and if installed by the dealer don't invalidate the warranty. Simple enough.

John

Robert_Nash · 06-07-2009, 04:50 PM

I don't understand is why some will go to the trouble to join a site dedicated to the appreciation of a a particular car only to trash it and its maker? Then they turn around and also trash the "Vette which is probably one of the best performance cars on the planet for the money (not that I actually want one as I can't stand most Corvette owners)?

Modshack · 06-07-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert_Nash

I don't understand is why some will go to the trouble to join a site dedicated to the appreciation of a a particular car only to trash it and its maker? Then they turn around and also trash the "Vette which is probably one of the best performance cars on the planet for the money (not that I actually want one as I can't stand most Corvette owners)?

Robert.....Seem to be more than a few here like that. Sad really.I was hoping for more of an enthusiast crowd here.. I agree with you on the corvette too...While I made mine into a terrific driver, The forum was full of folks obsessed with chrome Chatchkys, and how to dial camber out of their alignments so their tires would wear more evenly on the way to car shows.....

.....It was a strange group. They were a bunch of car bigots too...Refusing to acknowledge that anything else was worthy...

Personally, I'm in it for the...

and the 370 fits the bill quite nicely! Thanks again for helping me acquire mine....

edeeZee · 06-07-2009, 08:58 AM

Actually, I like this low sales trend. Why? I don't want this Z to be ubiquitous like the Z32 and Z33. You know what that causes? The dynamics of supply and demand. When something is too common--> hurts resale value, Z's become riced out, they become eye sores...

I hope the 370 shares a similar fate to the Supra MK IV-->rarity, ageless in appearance, unreal resale value, not too many riced out examples roaming the streets, and the likes

Modshack · 06-07-2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edeeZee

Actually, I like this low sales trend. Why? I don't want this Z to be ubiquitous like the Z32 and Z33. You know what that causes? The dynamics of supply and demand. When something is too common--> hurts resale value, Z's become riced out, they become eye sores...

I hope the 370 shares a similar fate to the Supra MK IV-->rarity, ageless in appearance, unreal resale value, not too many riced out examples roaming the streets, and the likes

That wouldn't be bad at all, but it will mean prices will go up (which is good for us early adopters). I'm sure the largest reason for the Light sales number is the economic climate. 2 seat coupes and sports cars in general get hit the hardest. Corvette, for example is off around 50%...

matt2112 · 06-07-2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edeeZee

Actually, I like this low sales trend. Why? I don't want this Z to be ubiquitous like the Z32 and Z33. You know what that causes? The dynamics of supply and demand. When something is too common--> hurts resale value, Z's become riced out, they become eye sores...

I hope the 370 shares a similar fate to the Supra MK IV-->rarity, ageless in appearance, unreal resale value, not too many riced out examples roaming the streets, and the likes

my feelings EXACTLY.

+rep for thinking "awesomely!"

StLRedrider · 06-07-2009, 10:08 AM

Small problems, atleast they are not going to be a dime a dozen out there like the mustang or the charger.

OnCallZ · 06-07-2009, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StLRedrider

Small problems, atleast they are not going to be a dime a dozen out there like the mustang or the charger.

You couldn't be more wrong, this is only the first year of production, by the end of the model life cycle the 370 will be a dime a dozen just like the 350. It's inevitable with a car like this, no matter which way you spin it, it's going to happen sooner or later. Personally, I am going to enjoy it while it's still fresh

dad · 06-07-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modshack

Your Martyrdom is duly noted. You guys can leave now while the other 7000+ of us enjoy our cars. You really showed em....

Hey, I want to be a martyr also! No way would I buy this car with that oil issue. And I would tell any one interested in buying one, not to buy it!
I hope those 3 stick around, and continue to post their truthfull opinions!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modshack

That wouldn't be bad at all, but it will mean prices will go up (which is good for us early adopters). I'm sure the largest reason for the Light sales number is the economic climate. 2 seat coupes and sports cars in general get hit the hardest. Corvette, for example is off around 50%...

A Corvette is not a fair comparison. Who in their right mind would buy an automobile from a company that is and has declared bankruptcy!
How about the Audi TT or the BMW Z4 instead.

Modshack · 06-07-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dad

Hey, I want to be a martyr also! No way would I buy this car with that oil issue. And I would tell any one interested in buying one, not to buy it!

A Corvette is not a fair comparison. Who in their right mind would buy an automobile from a company that is and has declared bankruptcy!
How about the Audi TT or the BMW Z4 instead.

No problem! Just don't buy one then!...I'll continue enjoying mine.

The Corvette has been in the sales tank for well over a year. The economy has killed "Toy" cars in general... The TT is also far short of it's sales goals as they've failed to excite the past MK1 owners, especially at their current price point, horsepower level, and driveline combinations. (my last 2 cars were a Vette and a TT BTW) . On the Z4, I think all the Dr's wives ae waiting for the new retractable hardtop....

06-07-2009, 11:11 AM	#5 (permalink)
wellarmed Base Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Tucson, Az. Posts: 42 Drives: 09 370Z Rep Power: 17	What Nissan needs to consider is..... this oil temp issue going unresolved is real bad press for the market that they are trying to sell this kind of car to. The question is....... can they be slapped awake enough to do the right thing. I'll bet the people at Nissan who engineered this car, knew it should have a cooler and wanted it to have a cooler, but got over-ruled when it came down to comming up with that final price point. They let some bean counter decide to take care of the oil over temp issue by using the built-in 'limp mode' and "that took care of that!" No doubt that sounded like the perfect sollution for keeping some 'enthusiest' from overheating the motor to him. The problem is... that looks exactly like what it is. A halfassed shortcut to save money at the expense of necessary engineering, and at this point their response to what to do about it now is looking alot like what many of us came to expect from Detroit. Maybe Nissan should go back and consider exacxtly why so many Americans stopped buying the big three and starting buying Honda/Toyota/Nissan. Maybe the current economy and the decision to curtail production related to that will hide the fact that there may be a significant number of potential 'enthusiest' buyers going elsewhere due to the oil temp issues. Nissan will probably only see that they have demand equal to what they're making now and not care about doing the right thing. Last edited by wellarmed; 06-07-2009 at 11:20 AM.

06-07-2009, 04:50 PM	#7 (permalink)
Robert_Nash Track Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Middle TN/Savannah GA Posts: 762 Drives: '14 Q60IPL/'14Armada Rep Power: 18	I don't understand is why some will go to the trouble to join a site dedicated to the appreciation of a a particular car only to trash it and its maker? Then they turn around and also trash the "Vette which is probably one of the best performance cars on the planet for the money (not that I actually want one as I can't stand most Corvette owners)? __________________ Robert -My Basset Hound Is Smarter Than Your Honor Student and Barack Obama -

06-07-2009, 10:08 AM	#12 (permalink)
StLRedrider A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: St.louis,Mo Posts: 17,755 Drives: O9Sprt/Touring,p-51 Rep Power: 61	Small problems, atleast they are not going to be a dime a dozen out there like the mustang or the charger. __________________ Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today J.Dean

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06-07-2009, 08:53 AM	#2 (permalink)
ChrisSlicks A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North East Posts: 6,203 Drives: 09 370Z Sport M6 Rep Power: 654	Part of the drop in sales has to be self induced, they cut production so much that there is now almost no inventory of Base Sport 6MT's, one of the most popular configurations.

06-07-2009, 08:58 AM	#9 (permalink)
edeeZee Track Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: s. cali, los angeles Posts: 627 Drives: 09 370z plat 6 speed Rep Power: 267	Actually, I like this low sales trend. Why? I don't want this Z to be ubiquitous like the Z32 and Z33. You know what that causes? The dynamics of supply and demand. When something is too common--> hurts resale value, Z's become riced out, they become eye sores... I hope the 370 shares a similar fate to the Supra MK IV-->rarity, ageless in appearance, unreal resale value, not too many riced out examples roaming the streets, and the likes