Heel Toe on the 370

[DinoJ]

Before I got this car I always heel toed but I find it so uncomfortable to do with the way the pedals are set up in this car, its more like left-toe right-toe. So i've switched to double clutching.

Are there any adverse affects to double clutching on a daily basis?

Does anyone else have this problem?

[Modshack]

Originally Posted by DinoJ

Are there any adverse affects to double clutching on a daily basis?

Does anyone else have this problem?

Double clutching on downshifts is absolutely the best thing you can do for the transmission as it spins the gears up to speed for easy engagement and minimal wear on the syncros assuming you're blipping at the neutral gate. Apparently you don't have Syncro Rev Match, cause if you did you'd abandon all that other stuff quickly!! A lifetime of double clutching downshifts went out the window for me! SRM only spins up the engine though, not the trans so what you're doing, if you're good at it, is not a problem..

[Slow*Jim]

I never had a problem heel-toeing on my 350z, my Civic, the 370z or any other car. Try hitting the brake with just your big toe and angle your foot so you are hitting the gas pedal with either your heel or the side of your foot.

[Alexus]

Heel-toeing is obsolete with the 370z. Don't all the models come with SynchroRev Matching?

[semtex]

^Nope. It's part of the sport pkg. No sport pkg = no SRM.

[Alexus]

Originally Posted by semtex

^Nope. It's part of the sport pkg. No sport pkg = no SRM.

True that.

[k20z3]

I just blop the rpms in the neutral gate.. :S

[imag]

This thread is confusing. For those who might find it useful, I'm going to clarify things.

First off, the following represents double clutching:

1. Put the clutch in
2. Take the gearshift out of the higher gear
3. Let the clutch out
4. Blip the throttle to get the engine and idler gear up to the right RPM for the lower gear
5. Put the clutch in
6. Move the gearshift into the lower gear
7. Let the clutch out

The purpose of double clutching is to match the engine and the idler gear speeds to the lower gear. Heel toe technique is just a way to perform the throttle blip in step 4 while braking at the same time. There are three ways to heel toe:

1. With your toe on the brake, kick your heel over to the gas pedal to perform the throttle blip
2. With the left half your foot on the brake, use the right half to blip the throttle
3. With your heel on the brake, blip the throttle with your toe (unusual technique because you're trying to perform fine braking control with your heel, but it's only one that works for me)

Which technique you use depends upon you and the pedal position in your car. I find Subarus are oriented toward heel/toe technique #1, which is one of the reasons I didn't get a Subaru. I recognize that heel/toe technique is a rally standard, but my feet just don't twist that way. Some cars with tight footwells (like a lotus seven) almost require anyone with large feet or shoes on to use technique #2.

There's also some confusion about SRM.

As ModShack noted, SRM is *not* the same as a full heel toe double clutch. It does match the *engine* RPM, which means that a properly executed downshift will not jerk your car. However, if you are just

1. putting the clutch in
2. shifting to a lower gear,
3. letting the clutch out

You are not accelerating the idler gear in your transmission, which is one of the original reasons for the double clutch. The purpose was to match gear speeds, which was necessary before syncromesh gearboxes existed. With modern syncros, one can argue that a full double-clutch is irrelevant. I still like the feel of the idler just slipping into the new gear because I got the revs right.

Technically, you could use SRM to blip the throttle during a double clutch, but it seems somewhat confusing to do so.

When I'm feeling lazy, I have just been turning SRM on, and either double-clutching or not, depending upon the downshift. When I'm on twisties, I prefer SRM off (after all, the reason I'm driving is for the fun of it, and a good part of the fun is shifting).

Okay - hope that was helpful. As you were...

[RDGR12]

Originally Posted by k20z3

I just blop the rpms in the neutral gate.. :S

I've never tried double-clutching as it seem like it's more work than the heel-toe. But can't you just blip the throttle holding down the clutch, then make the downshift?

[Modshack]

Originally Posted by RDGR12

I've never tried double-clutching as it seem like it's more work than the heel-toe. But can't you just blip the throttle holding down the clutch, then make the downshift?

As Imag pointed out above, double clutching was a technique developed before gearboxes and syncros became as robust and as good as they are now. My first car, an MGA, was almost impossible to downshift without using this technique. After a string of English cars, the habit became ingrained out of necessity. I rebuilt that trans several times, mostly to refresh the syncros. For many of us (older guys!) it is second nature and requires some retraining to stop doing it (ala SRM). You can just blip the throttle (as SRM does) but it does not smooth the gear engagement and reduce the strain on the syncros, it just matches the engine speed as the clutch is released..

[shabarivas]

^ thats what I used to do in my G35/ Evo ... modern cars dont really need double clutching... but SRM FTW

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by RDGR12

I've never tried double-clutching as it seem like it's more work than the heel-toe. But can't you just blip the throttle holding down the clutch, then make the downshift?

Yes, thats the fastest/easiest way to downshift. Double clutching is unnecessary on any modern vehicle.

[spearfish25]

There is a little disconnect here. Heel-toe is a technique for downshifting while braking. Double-clutching describes a technique for downshifting and has been described at length up above. The point here is that the act of double-clutching may incorporate heel-toe downshifting if you're trying to brake at the same time. One is not a substitute for another.

[Modshack]

Originally Posted by spearfish25

There is a little disconnect here. Heel-toe is a technique for downshifting while braking. Double-clutching describes a technique for downshifting and has been described at length up above. The point here is that the act of double-clutching may incorporate heel-toe downshifting if you're trying to brake at the same time. One is not a substitute for another.

The nice thing about SRM is you can concentrate on modulating your braking and picking the right line without the distraction of rev matching your downshifts via Heel and toeing (with or without the double clutch two step)...

[AARC51]

So double clutching is still a good idea even with this?