What else did you cross shop?

FlashBazbo · 05-10-2009, 05:17 PM

I'm still cross-shopping. Started with an open book. Only poor rear visibility, oil temp issues, and my horrible customer service experience with NISSAN 19 years ago are holding me back from firming up my decision for a Z.

My finalists:

Chevrolet Camaro -- 6 cyl has 300 horsepower and better fuel economy than a Z, plus better rear visibility, more luggage space, no reported oil temp issues, etc. and costs several thousand less. SS model, we're talking 400+ hp at a price competitive with a Z. No, a Camaro won't eke out that last .04G of grip, but on how many public roads can I use a Z to get that last .04G? (None. And I won't be driving on the track.)

G37 -- Dealer is too far away for even a test drive. If you can see out of the back of a G37, it might be the better fit for me. The performance difference between a G37 and a Z is negligible. A good driver in a G37 will smoke an average driver in a Z.

VW GTI -- Better visibility, better refinement, slides under the radar better, but . . . 200 hp and no better mileage than a Z?????? Nah.

MINI John Cooper Works -- Plastic on controls is cheap looking. No way a MINI should cost as much as a Z but, with the right equipment, it does.

BMW 135 -- Very nice. On most public roads in the hands of most drivers, will probably outperform a Z and do it with less fuss. But it's an ugly car. And I really don't like the poseur image that goes with the roundel.

Others eliminated earlier in the process: Cayman, Z4, Solstice Coupe (may it rest in peace), S2000 (may it rest in peace), Mustang, Challenger, Mazdaspeed 3, Subaru WRX STi.

CBRich · 05-10-2009, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlashBazbo

Chevrolet Camaro -- 6 cyl has 300 horsepower and better fuel economy than a Z, plus better rear visibility, more luggage space, no reported oil temp issues, etc. and costs several thousand less. SS model, we're talking 400+ hp at a price competitive with a Z. No, a Camaro won't eke out that last .04G of grip, but on how many public roads can I use a Z to get that last .04G? (None. And I won't be driving on the track.)

You do understand that a 6 cyl Camaro that "has 300 horsepower . . . and costs several thousand less" is also 1.4 seconds slower to 60 and doesn't handle nearly as well, right? The SS is the closer competitor and costs about the same.

FlashBazbo · 05-10-2009, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBRich

You do understand that a 6 cyl Camaro that "has 300 horsepower . . . and costs several thousand less" is also 1.4 seconds slower to 60 and doesn't handle nearly as well, right? The SS is the closer competitor and costs about the same.

For handling, the 6 cyl Camaro is the closer competitor. It's a better handler than the V8 because the engine is lighter and the chassis is better balanced as a result. On a tight road course or autocross course, the LT Camaro is the better way to go. Of course, as I said, neither is a statistical overall performance match for the Z (although I haven't seen or heard of anyone driving a 6 cyl Camaro as slowly as you claim). But from a practical standpoint? . . . Nobody is using the maximum potential of any of these cars on the street. That's why cars like the GTI and the MINI have a fighting chance in this market. It is always more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slowly.

The only reason I'm even considering a Camaro are the visibility issues of the Z, the lack of luggage space for the Z, and the poor customer service history of Nissan. If the Z were to be my only car? It couldn't happen.

But since my wife drives a fogey-mobile . . .

sensi09 · 05-11-2009, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlashBazbo

For handling, the 6 cyl Camaro is the closer competitor. It's a better handler than the V8 because the engine is lighter and the chassis is better balanced as a result. On a tight road course or autocross course, the LT Camaro is the better way to go. Of course, as I said, neither is a statistical overall performance match for the Z (although I haven't seen or heard of anyone driving a 6 cyl Camaro as slowly as you claim). But from a practical standpoint? . . . Nobody is using the maximum potential of any of these cars on the street. That's why cars like the GTI and the MINI have a fighting chance in this market. It is always more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slowly.

The only reason I'm even considering a Camaro are the visibility issues of the Z, the lack of luggage space for the Z, and the poor customer service history of Nissan. If the Z were to be my only car? It couldn't happen.

But since my wife drives a fogey-mobile . . .

I agree that a slower car is more fun to drive fast than it is the other way around, but then again, 426HP will be a lot more fun than 304HP. Straight-line acceleration does get boring, but it's hard to pass up the extra power.

Unless someone is buying a base V6 with little to no options, it doesn't make sense, at least to me to spend a tad bit more for the bigger engine.

FlashBazbo · 05-11-2009, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sensi09

I agree that a slower car is more fun to drive fast than it is the other way around, but then again, 426HP will be a lot more fun than 304HP. Straight-line acceleration does get boring, but it's hard to pass up the extra power.

Unless someone is buying a base V6 with little to no options, it doesn't make sense, at least to me to spend a tad bit more for the bigger engine.

That's why they make more than one kind.

Back in the day, there were just about always two sizes of "hot" cars in every lineup. The 289 Cobra was the handling/road racing machine but the 427 Cobra was a straight-line monster (Le Mans with its then 4-mile Mulsanne straight was the exception among road courses). The big engine made the car too nose-heavy. On most road courses, the 289 would beat a 427. On most drag strips, the 427 would win. It was the same with Mustang (351/429), Camaro, Trans Am, Barracuda, even Jaguar's XKE had the six cylinder for handling or the V12 for straight line power.

A Camaro LT with upgraded brakes might be the perfect mountain road weapon (among new Camaros). The bigger engine would be a detriment in that application. It's all a balance of weight/handling vs. power.

speedworks · 05-12-2009, 01:12 PM

I looked at:

Used c6 vette (felt like it would fall apart long term, but was very fast)
Used 996 911 - no wow factor
335i (wanted a true sports car, with 2 seats - that is what the wife decided)
s2000 - too small and too tight
WRX - too soft
Mazdaspeed3 - too much of an econobox - small
Boxster - a little slow, tough on maintenance costs

If I could add any: Genesis, Camaro

It really came down to 335i and Z, and the Z won out.

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05-10-2009, 05:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
FlashBazbo Base Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 97 Drives: '09 370Z T-SP-7AT Rep Power: 0	I'm still cross-shopping. Started with an open book. Only poor rear visibility, oil temp issues, and my horrible customer service experience with NISSAN 19 years ago are holding me back from firming up my decision for a Z. My finalists: Chevrolet Camaro -- 6 cyl has 300 horsepower and better fuel economy than a Z, plus better rear visibility, more luggage space, no reported oil temp issues, etc. and costs several thousand less. SS model, we're talking 400+ hp at a price competitive with a Z. No, a Camaro won't eke out that last .04G of grip, but on how many public roads can I use a Z to get that last .04G? (None. And I won't be driving on the track.) G37 -- Dealer is too far away for even a test drive. If you can see out of the back of a G37, it might be the better fit for me. The performance difference between a G37 and a Z is negligible. A good driver in a G37 will smoke an average driver in a Z. VW GTI -- Better visibility, better refinement, slides under the radar better, but . . . 200 hp and no better mileage than a Z?????? Nah. MINI John Cooper Works -- Plastic on controls is cheap looking. No way a MINI should cost as much as a Z but, with the right equipment, it does. BMW 135 -- Very nice. On most public roads in the hands of most drivers, will probably outperform a Z and do it with less fuss. But it's an ugly car. And I really don't like the poseur image that goes with the roundel. Others eliminated earlier in the process: Cayman, Z4, Solstice Coupe (may it rest in peace), S2000 (may it rest in peace), Mustang, Challenger, Mazdaspeed 3, Subaru WRX STi.

05-12-2009, 01:12 PM	#6 (permalink)
speedworks Track Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 550 Drives: PW purchased 01/09 Rep Power: 19	I looked at: Used c6 vette (felt like it would fall apart long term, but was very fast) Used 996 911 - no wow factor 335i (wanted a true sports car, with 2 seats - that is what the wife decided) s2000 - too small and too tight WRX - too soft Mazdaspeed3 - too much of an econobox - small Boxster - a little slow, tough on maintenance costs If I could add any: Genesis, Camaro It really came down to 335i and Z, and the Z won out.