For those of you who have gotten rid of your 370Z

Red__Zed · 10-12-2011, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

A square setup or a larger rear bar (or both) on the Z would change the dynamic quite a bit, though. If I ever got around to getting wheels for my Z I probably would have opted to run a square setup, or less stagger overall with a bigger bar.

I was never able to get the z neutral. Even with 295s all around on 10s, and a stiffer rear bar, the car pushed hard. It got really tricky because it would always push initially, but you'd wind up with snap oversteer if you got off the gas at all. And I don't mean ap1 snap oversteer, I mean real snap oversteer.

I like to think with more time I could have dialed it in, but I just learned to deal with it. The nice thing is, unless you do something really crazy, you always know where the z is going.

m4a1mustang · 10-12-2011, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

I was never able to get the z neutral. Even with 295s all around on 10s, and a stiffer rear bar, the car pushed hard. It got really tricky because it would always push initially, but you'd wind up with snap oversteer if you got off the gas at all. And I don't mean ap1 snap oversteer, I mean real snap oversteer.

I like to think with more time I could have dialed it in, but I just learned to deal with it. The nice thing is, unless you do something really crazy, you always know where the z is going.

Two things:

1) A good diff would probably make a difference in keeping the car rotating under power.

2) Some people just drive in such a way that induces understeer. If you attack a corner too hard you will probably plow regardless of whether the car is loose, neutral, or tight.

kenchan · 10-12-2011, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Two things:

1) A good diff would probably make a difference in keeping the car rotating under power.

2) Some people just drive in such a way that induces understeer. If you attack a corner too hard you will probably plow regardless of whether the car is loose, neutral, or tight.

yah, i have to agree with #2 for sure. ive yet to find my Z understeering... all i changed was the offset and tires. nothing else. i can turn the car mid-turn with throttle.

i dont do any super tight turns though so i'd change the setup if i was going through cones by adding another 10mm offset in the front.

Red__Zed · 10-12-2011, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PapoZalsa

Not in the one they up ended crashing the Nismo, it had wrong pads. That is the reason it overheated during the test.

Anyway this is just one instance, I know the Z is on the $hit list of almost every magazine out there because of the oil temps and brakes overheating....

True. But even with other pads there have been plenty of issues. Luckily brake ducting is not terribly expensive, just ugly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenchan

yah, i have to agree with #2 for sure. ive yet to find my Z understeering... all i changed was the offset and tires. nothing else. i can turn the car mid-turn with throttle.

i dont do any super tight turns though so i'd change the setup if i was going through cones by adding another 10mm offset in the front.

Just saying, if you've only hit 240 oil temps, it sounds like a more comfortable cruise, rather than testing the limits.

It's important to understand that ability to rotate under throttle doesn't really mean much in the way of implying balance, it's more a function of the power the car has. Guys like me want the car to pretty much drop all four wheels at once when it's getting no input, so we can manipulate it through the turn.

shadoquad · 10-12-2011, 10:12 AM

When the Z understeers, I just brake, rotate, and get back on the throttle. I'm unsure how that differs from the WRX?

semtex · 10-12-2011, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

When the Z understeers, I just brake, rotate, and get back on the throttle. I'm unsure how that differs from the WRX?

It doesn't. But with the Z you have the option of skipping the braking and adding throttle to induce some oversteer (i.e., rotate the rear around to cancel out the understeer). It's a little harder to do that with an AWD car on account of the power going to the front wheels. Indeed, when I detect understeer with my STi I usually tap the brakes rather than attempt to power through it with the rear wheels.

Red__Zed · 10-12-2011, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

When the Z understeers, I just brake, rotate, and get back on the throttle. I'm unsure how that differs from the WRX?

Depends on what the turn is like.

Generally, you have to roll slower into the throttle in a rwd car to not upset the balance. Rolling into the throttle hard will almost definitely create either understeer or oversteer depending on the turn and the surface. It is not much of a difference if you're just canyon cruising, but it's first-to-last on a course.

The spring bias in the z is also loathe to drop weight back onto the back wheels, expanding that pause. The closer fr rates on swifts and coils is where a lot of their benefit comes in....

Pharmacist · 10-12-2011, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

Depends on what the turn is like.

Generally, you have to roll slower into the throttle in a rwd car to not upset the balance. Rolling into the throttle hard will almost definitely create either understeer or oversteer depending on the turn and the surface. It is not much of a difference if you're just canyon cruising, but it's first-to-last on a course.

The spring bias in the z is also loathe to drop weight back onto the back wheels, expanding that pause. The closer fr rates on swifts and coils is where a lot of their benefit comes in....

trail braking a bit helps too. I usually brake hard before the corner, and keep a slight pressure on the pedal, about 10 or 15% on initial turn in. The slight front squat helps the front bite into the asphalt. After that it's power oversteer as needed

Red__Zed · 10-12-2011, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharmacist

trail braking a bit helps too. I usually brake hard before the corner, and keep a slight pressure on the pedal, about 10 or 15% on initial turn in. The slight front squat helps the front bite into the asphalt. After that it's power oversteer as needed

Trail braking is tricky in the z, because you can't afford to turn at all while braking. That's actually one of the bigger issues with how much understeer it has.

Power oversteer is great for fun and looking cool, but it wreaks havoc on lap times unless you have a tight 15mph hairpin. If you have to power oversteer to get through a turn, you are leaving time out there.

m4a1mustang · 10-12-2011, 10:28 AM

There is a huge misconception about "balance" when mostly it is a personal preference. The Mustang, Z, and STi/EVO all have very good handling dynamics. All of the cars have a good general balance, IMO. They just have to be driven differently in stock form.

And thankfully for all of us we can tweak the cars as we see fit. If I want more understeer or oversteer in the 5.0, I can adjust that. I could do the same with the Z depending on what I wanted. Like I was saying, a square setup would go a long way for improving the feel of the Z for ME, but that might not work for someone else.

shadoquad · 10-12-2011, 10:38 AM

I think the Z's setup is fantastic. It's not square, but it just feels great to approach a corner understeering slightly, then hit the apex and throttle through. The g forces alone are

I could see what Red is saying that if the rear squatted a bit more under throttle, it might escape the corner more quickly, but I'm less concerned with "quick" than I am with "fun"

Red__Zed · 10-12-2011, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

I think the Z's setup is fantastic. It's not square, but it just feels great to approach a corner understeering slightly, then hit the apex and throttle through. The g forces alone are

I could see what Red is saying that if the rear squatted a bit more under throttle, it might escape the corner more quickly, but I'm less concerned with "quick" than I am with "fun"

This is what I've been getting at. Everyone wants something different from the car, and it's helpful to understand what you want from it. The z is an absolute blast to drive for sure.

m4a1mustang · 10-12-2011, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

I think the Z's setup is fantastic. It's not square, but it just feels great to approach a corner understeering slightly, then hit the apex and throttle through. The g forces alone are

I could see what Red is saying that if the rear squatted a bit more under throttle, it might escape the corner more quickly, but I'm less concerned with "quick" than I am with "fun"

In stock form the Z is fairly safe on entry which is good for a newb or a casual driver, or just someone who likes a very stable rear end (

). It's a point-and-shoot type affair. And if you push too hard you lose front grip first which is easier to control.

I think your last point is key, though. There's no doubt about it that the Z is good fun. I thought it was a great car with some quirks. To be honest, handling was the least of my concerns since I had to deal with the throttle issues... that was the most annoying thing for me. But in general I just had the car for a while and wanted to try something else. And I went about it knowing full well that in the future I might be back with a roadster...

toxik · 10-12-2011, 11:38 AM

I wanted to trade in my 370z because I could not get my rear view camera to work.

Fortunately, PMing Jeffblue for NAVTOOL fixed that problem. PMing Jeffblue was the best thing I've ever done for my 370z.

m4a1mustang · 10-12-2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxik

I wanted to trade in my 370z because I could not get my rear view camera to work.

Fortunately, PMing Jeffblue for NAVTOOL fixed that problem. PMing Jeffblue was the best thing I've ever done for my 370z.

I wish I knew that I could PM JeffBlue before I traded my Z in.

10-12-2011, 10:28 AM	#10 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6963	There is a huge misconception about "balance" when mostly it is a personal preference. The Mustang, Z, and STi/EVO all have very good handling dynamics. All of the cars have a good general balance, IMO. They just have to be driven differently in stock form. And thankfully for all of us we can tweak the cars as we see fit. If I want more understeer or oversteer in the 5.0, I can adjust that. I could do the same with the Z depending on what I wanted. Like I was saying, a square setup would go a long way for improving the feel of the Z for ME, but that might not work for someone else. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

10-12-2011, 10:12 AM	#5 (permalink)
shadoquad A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: . Posts: 42,608 Drives: . Rep Power: 3887	When the Z understeers, I just brake, rotate, and get back on the throttle. I'm unsure how that differs from the WRX?

10-12-2011, 10:38 AM	#11 (permalink)
shadoquad A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: . Posts: 42,608 Drives: . Rep Power: 3887	I think the Z's setup is fantastic. It's not square, but it just feels great to approach a corner understeering slightly, then hit the apex and throttle through. The g forces alone are I could see what Red is saying that if the rear squatted a bit more under throttle, it might escape the corner more quickly, but I'm less concerned with "quick" than I am with "fun"