Bye-Bye Z

Mt Tam I am · 10-04-2011, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Depends on the driver I guess.

Plus the only Mustangs that have been good on paper with the road courses are the new ones. Older styles will be a lot slower.

Remember there is a huge skill disparity at track days and driving schools. I have passed 911 Turbos and Corvettes in my '03 GT simply because those drivers were very, very cautious. Not everyone has the balls or skill to drive fast.

A 2011 GT or GT500 will be very fast around the bends in good hands.

The driver is everything.

A working theory: People buy cars for their popularity/badge (Ferrari, BMW) but purpose built cars like the Porsche GT2 and 3 costing far more than a base 911. And tend to not hold-up folks behind them, because they are driving enthusiasts.

With the Z you get a car for enthusiasts that does not carry a "trendy" badge. They even took the Z off and replaced it with a Nissan burger. I refer to my own as a Datsun 370Z.

The Mustang sells far more, than every Z, and every single Porsche built during the same year. As a result you get people who buy a car that is both popular and has a worthy badge. A GT and a GT500 both say Mustang. The Corvette also has a base and ZR1. It is just that the Mustang buyer since 1964 has been more concerned about power than handling. As a result, the standard new Mustang driver still holds up traffic, just like their older one.

All this holds true for the Camero and Charger too, just that the Mustang is top in the group.

This is a personal theory not fact. Any agreement or disagreement? I am not married to this I just can not figure out why all these cars hold up Camrey's, and trucks. I know in my own hands it would be different.

m4a1mustang · 10-04-2011, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mt Tam I am

The driver is everything.

A working theory: People buy cars for their popularity/badge (Ferrari, BMW) but purpose built cars like the Porsche GT2 and 3 costing far more than a base 911. And tend to not hold-up folks behind them, because they are driving enthusiasts.

With the Z you get a car for enthusiasts that does not carry a "trendy" badge. They even took the Z off and replaced it with a Nissan burger. I refer to my own as a Datsun 370Z.

The Mustang sells far more, than every Z, and every single Porsche built during the same year. As a result you get people who buy a car that is both popular and has a worthy badge. A GT and a GT500 both say Mustang. The Corvette also has a base and ZR1. It is just that the Mustang buyer since 1964 has been more concerned about power than handling. As a result, the standard new Mustang driver still holds up traffic, just like their older one.

All this holds true for the Camero and Charger too, just that the Mustang is top in the group.

This is a personal theory not fact. Any agreement or disagreement? I am not married to this I just can not figure out why all these cars hold up Camrey's, and trucks. I know in my own hands it would be different.

I don't think it's car specific because the type of person that would actually take their car out on track is a totally different breed. I know, and have known, plenty of crappy Z drivers that would hold up traffic on track regardless of how much seat time they had, so I think it's unfair to generalize and say the "standard" driver for any given type of car would hold up traffic on track... because the type of person that would actually go out on track is not the "standard." We are a very small minority.

I think Dan touched on it earlier, and I remember from your other track day thread, but the car out on track was a V6 convertible on all-seasons. I would hold up traffic too if I was driving that... but I assure you if I was driving the GT, or a V6 Coupe with Performance Package, I wouldn't.

Track days are always a crapshoot because there is a varying skill level. Throw a newb in a McLaren F1 and he'd hold you up in the corners.

To insinuate that the Z is strictly for enthusiasts, or that its typical driver has more skill than another type of car, is disingenuous. There are PLENTY of drivers that buy the Z purely because of how it looks, and that is VERY evident if you read about these forums. And there are plenty that couldn't drive 'round a track if their life depended on it (think "oops, VDC off").

toxik · 10-04-2011, 10:10 AM

To insinuate that the Z is strictly for enthusiasts, or that its typical driver has more skill than another type of car, is disingenuous. There are PLENTY of drivers that buy the Z purely because of how it looks, and that is VERY evident if you read about these forums. And there are plenty that couldn't drive 'round a track if their life depended on it (think "oops, VDC off").

I don't think it's car specific because the type of person that would actually take their car out on track is a totally different breed. I think Dan touched on it earlier, and I remember from your other track day thread, but the car out on track was a V6 convertible on all-seasons. I would hold up traffic too if I was driving that... but I assure you if I was driving the GT, or a V6 Coupe with Performance Package, I wouldn't. I know, and have known, plenty of crappy Z drivers that would hold up traffic on track regardless of how much seat time they had, so I think it's unfair to generalize and say the "standard" driver for any given type of car would hold up traffic on track... because the type of person that would actually go out on track is not the "standard." We are a very small minority.

Track days are always a crapshoot because there is a varying skill level. Throw a newb in a McLaren F1 and he'd hold you up in the corners.

Red__Zed · 10-04-2011, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

I think Dan touched on it earlier, and I remember from your other track day thread, but the car out on track was a V6 convertible on all-seasons. I would hold up traffic too if I was driving that... but I assure you if I was driving the GT, or a V6 Coupe with Performance Package, I wouldn't.

Track days are always a crapshoot because there is a varying skill level. Throw a newb in a McLaren F1 and he'd hold you up in the corners.

To insinuate that the Z is strictly for enthusiasts, or that its typical driver has more skill than another type of car, is disingenuous. There are PLENTY of drivers that buy the Z purely because of how it looks, and that is VERY evident if you read about these forums. And there are plenty that couldn't drive 'round a track if their life depended on it (think "oops, VDC off").

Shocking as it may be, gotta do a lot of agreeing with steve here

In 09, the proportion of track enthusiasts buying the z over the mustang probably was huge. These days though, there are almost as many 5.0s as Evo's at a track day. Part of that is the improvements in the mustang, part of that is discovering things like fuel starve in the z. You'll notice Travis, mike and chris are some of the only guys still regularly tracking the z...there is a reason.

On that mustang, all season tire, droptop, etc all make life hard. Steve, I do think it was a v8 though (cali special is GT only, right?)

Making judgements on just about anything is tough at a driving school. Most of those guys aren't even hpde1 ready, which means you can derive exactly zero information from their performance.

m4a1mustang · 10-04-2011, 10:32 AM

I thought it was a sixer but I could be wrong.

m4a1mustang · 10-04-2011, 10:35 AM

Dan, you were right, it was a GT/CS. I'd still be slow in that on those all seasons.

JvKintheUSA · 10-04-2011, 10:38 AM

Haha - yeah I remember! That was a nice drive from OH to VA and back!

Here's some pics I took last weekend

JvKintheUSA · 10-04-2011, 10:44 AM

Keep me in the loop and I will be there - love driving in those mountains!

Quote:

Originally Posted by daisuke149

Damn John. HOpefully you'll still come and lead us on those mountain cruises!

ProfessorDave · 10-04-2011, 10:46 AM

Shelby. Nice.

m4a1mustang · 10-04-2011, 10:51 AM

Ugh I want those Recaros.

JvKintheUSA · 10-04-2011, 11:08 AM

Just my opinion: The Z and the Mustang (in any configuration) are two completely different vehicles. The Z is a nible, corner-loving sports coupe, whereas the Mustang is a true muscle car for red light drag racing. The Mustang feels heavier (it is!) and bulkier (it is!). I love the look and the handling of the Z over the Mustang (although I have not tried to learn the limits of the Mustang), but the sheer power - and the sound that comes with it, of the GT500 gives me a hard-on, especially combined with the drop-top. Both are great cars - and it's okay to like both, as I do! For me, cars are just like women - they are great to look at, great to play with, each one is different than the other, one might be beter than the other, but I like 'em all.

I did hear the Mustang might be over 600 HP next year (to combat the new Z28, I guess), but I'm sure the HP will keep creeping up year over year, but I'm not waiting for what might come in the future...

b1adesofcha0s · 10-04-2011, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red__Zed

I heard a 370z with all seasons won't be able to stay on the road trying to keep up with a maxima

I heard the Maxima wasn't enough of a challenge so it wanted to try rally racing

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoquad

themann1984 · 10-04-2011, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

There are PLENTY of drivers that buy the Z purely because of how it looks, and that is VERY evident if you read about these forums. And there are plenty that couldn't drive 'round a track if their life depended on it (think "oops, VDC off").

Hi guys! I sensed that somebody was talking about me.

The 370Z is pure sex! It is hot, loud, and rough!

ProfessorDave · 10-05-2011, 09:42 AM

Kills me. Every time.

CarsRfun · 10-05-2011, 10:11 PM

Congrats on the GT500, Im sure you wont be disappointed.

10-04-2011, 10:32 AM	#35 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	I thought it was a sixer but I could be wrong. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

10-04-2011, 10:35 AM	#36 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	Dan, you were right, it was a GT/CS. I'd still be slow in that on those all seasons. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

10-04-2011, 10:46 AM	#39 (permalink)
ProfessorDave A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Scranton, PA Posts: 1,580 Drives: In the fairway Rep Power: 18	Shelby. Nice. __________________ Rain, snow, sleet, hail: 2009 Mazda 3 sGT HB Everything else: 2009 370z, PW Touring 6MT

10-04-2011, 10:51 AM	#40 (permalink)
m4a1mustang A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 55,385 Drives: on two wheels Rep Power: 6962	Ugh I want those Recaros. __________________ - Steve Zs & Coffee - Saturdays at 10AM in Fairfax, VA and Columbia, MD (Click the banner!) LIKE us on Facebook!

10-04-2011, 11:08 AM	#41 (permalink)
JvKintheUSA Enthusiast Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Canton, GA Posts: 465 Drives: 2013 Shelby GT500 Rep Power: 427	Just my opinion: The Z and the Mustang (in any configuration) are two completely different vehicles. The Z is a nible, corner-loving sports coupe, whereas the Mustang is a true muscle car for red light drag racing. The Mustang feels heavier (it is!) and bulkier (it is!). I love the look and the handling of the Z over the Mustang (although I have not tried to learn the limits of the Mustang), but the sheer power - and the sound that comes with it, of the GT500 gives me a hard-on, especially combined with the drop-top. Both are great cars - and it's okay to like both, as I do! For me, cars are just like women - they are great to look at, great to play with, each one is different than the other, one might be beter than the other, but I like 'em all. I did hear the Mustang might be over 600 HP next year (to combat the new Z28, I guess), but I'm sure the HP will keep creeping up year over year, but I'm not waiting for what might come in the future... __________________

10-05-2011, 09:42 AM	#44 (permalink)
ProfessorDave A True Z Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Scranton, PA Posts: 1,580 Drives: In the fairway Rep Power: 18	Kills me. Every time. __________________ Rain, snow, sleet, hail: 2009 Mazda 3 sGT HB Everything else: 2009 370z, PW Touring 6MT

10-05-2011, 10:11 PM	#45 (permalink)
CarsRfun Base Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: USA Posts: 38 Drives: EVO Rep Power: 13	Congrats on the GT500, Im sure you wont be disappointed.