honest opinions about this article ??

Red__Zed

This gets the nod for the redzed facepalm statement of the day.

kielbasa16

I didnt know there was such a thing! Now youre not allowed to face palm for the rest of the day though huh?

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Mag Black Kielbasa

Red__Zed

No, it just gets the biggest facepalm.

cossie1600

no $hit it does. i am saying if a muscle car is making 400+ hp, who cares if it is 4000lbs as it can outdrag your z in a straightline anyway. i was more responding to the people who complain about the mustang or other muscle cars as being too heavy

Econ

I'm only responding to your statement

"If you dont track your car, weight makes no difference."

I dont track my car, and wouldn't mind my car being faster (weight is one way of accomplishing this) as would people that drive muscle cars. Why do you think they keep bumping the horsepower up. another way of acheiving performance is losing weight.

anyway...doesnt matter.

haggomyeggo

well none of the cars being discussed are really lightweight cars per se. drive a lotus elise and you will realize what less weight can do for a car. it changes how a car can drive.

the 370 is lighter than the old 350 but i never have considered it a light car. Now the Mustang, camero and porker challenger are all heavier than the Z but the V8 versions of these cars do have quite a bit more power than the Z. The fact the Z stays so close in a straight drag race is what i consider a feather in the Zs hat.

remember when the 350 was compared to the other japan boys RX8 and S2k they called the 350 the muscle car of the bunch due to its torquey engine and higher weight.

I personally am not one for straight line speed. Its too one dimensional. an all arounder is what i look for. I want a car that can carry speed into a corner scrub it off transfer its weight well and come out of a corner on the power and still feel balanced.

This is where I believe the Mustang loses in MY book. its the damn live rear axle. Ford refuses to update this just like Porsche leaves the engine in the 911 in the wrong place and GM still uses pushrods from the 1950s
Now both these companies have refined these things into some great cars. 911 GT3 one of the best track cars they say (ive never driven). and what GM does with the LS engines is incredible. even though Benz gets a lot more power out of their modern 6.3L amg engine.
The mustang has made leaps in handling with their track pack mustangs it just doesnt feel like a car should to me. My driving style so I stick with the Z. If i could make a Lotus Elise/Extige work everyday i would but they are bloody impossible to get in and out of all the time. so again I prefer the Z. but thats just one mans opinion. I say again if mustang hadnt bought a 'stang I probably would not have gotten my 370 so its all about what the driver wants out of his car

ok step down off the soapbox. im not tell anyone they are right/wrong but thats my opinion and now we can discuss

cossie1600

its a lot cheaper to make hp than to shave weight.......

Econ

yes and no...you can save 60lbs in the Z for almost free... spare/hardware/battery (obviously this can also be done to the competition)

weight helps in a straight line AS WELL AS around corners though, so i prefer weight savings

Whereas hp wont help too much in the twisties

cossie1600

hmmmm....my grippy tires help you much more than the 60lbs saving. like the lotus, grossly overrated

under the right condition, hp almost always help. you need power to pull the car out of the corner. i am on my cell phone, but i can show you some interestiing data on what power can do on lap times

yes i drove the elise on the track. it is fun and feels great, but not my cup of tea. while handling and feel are subjective, but lap times aren't.

cossie1600

i have driven all the cars you mentioned at the track, the lotus is grossly overrated. it feels great, but lap times arent really that great

here is another fun fact, my 2004 enth. weights 10lbs lighter than my 370z base sport. the difference isnt as big as you think. my rx8 06 stock at full tank was 3000lbs

Econ

ipretty intresting, just checked and it says the 350z (8:26) was 1 second behind the exige S (8:25) at Nurburgring

is this even possible? I always assumed the elise/exige would tool a z on a track.

haggomyeggo

I would think that because the 'Ring is considered a highspeed course with big braking zones the elise loses out because it doesnt have the big hp needed to get up to the higher speeds. This is what it seems like running both cars on the Ring on GT5. I know its just a game but the Ring seems to need a decent amount of power to fully exploit the high speed corners and straights.

If you look at the Top Gear Test Track wiki and the times cars have put up it evens out the gap that the Ring can introduce.

Red__Zed

+1. The ring is a pretty high speed run, which is why pigs like the CTS-V and the GTR are still able to put up good times.

UNKNOWN_370

This is the way I see it.

1. No one still knows what the 2012 refresh entails.

2. Musclecar to Z comparo are the stupidest comparos on the face of the earth. I don't see anyone comparing the camaro SS to the porsche boxster.

3. In the end the Z is a tuner car. There was once a time not too long ago when you bought a car like this and didn't worry about how fast it was stock. Cuz you know of its FI potential.

4. People who worry about the muscle car market zap the fun out of owning cars like these.

5. That's also why they make different types of cars. When you pay off the Z. Buy a mustang camaro etc... or just trade. Maybe you can afford both????

Either way they are different enthusiast segments. You cant maneuver a muscle car as well as a Z. Also I want to add this. Don't forget you opted for a V6 SPORTS CAR. If you want v8 power? Buy a v8. This is why after a few years japan just cuts all there cars from the US. They provide the best v6 engines on the market and the american consumer complains the v6 is not good enough. Show me a V6 musclecar that can outperform the v6 370z?????? I personally can't think of one.
Comparably, a porsche cayman has comparable specs and acceleration times @ double the cost. Why doesn't anyone complain that the cayman is slow???

b1adesofcha0s

I agree with all the points you make. However, you have to look at it from a market economics point of view. The Z vs muscle car comparisons make sense in that they are both performance oriented cars in the same price range. To true performance enthusiasts, this is meaningless, but to the manufacturers and the average customer for these vehicles. This average consumer will look at price and most likely just straight line performance. They know they won't ever go to a track, so they just want to be able to go fast in a straight line and get the most horespower they can with the car stock. This point of view is important because it affects sales numbers, which ultimately effects development and importance of the Z relative to other cars in the Nissan lineup. The reason some people believe that Nissan might stop making the Z is due the low sales, which in turn are due to the comparisons against these muscle cars. Nissan does need to step up their game with the Z soon if it wants to stay relevant in these comparisons for the average consumer.

No one looking for a 5.0 Mustang or Camaro SS is cross shopping a Cayman, it's usually way out of their price range. The way they look at it, I can get almost 100 more hp and a faster car (0-60, 1/4 mile) for half the price. The market for those cars is much larger than for the Porsche. Same with the Z. They're thinking I can get almost 100 more hp and a faster car for the same price or even less.

Just my

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