How to Keep with the Jones's
 

This is not meant to beat a dead horse. It has been talked about before but worth noting about the next Z car.....

When the new camaro ZL1 has 550 hp and the Charger SRI8 has 465 hp...
come on now! Not to even mention the mustang......

Some will say not in the same class one is muscle and the Z is a sports car..
But the Z imo has to compete against those cars for that market...

Nissan has to step up next time are our cars will feel like 4 cylinders against
the others... Like i said imho...........

The VQ series is about done I think. It's time for something new. No telling what Nissan will pull out of their hat when that happens, but I agree. If it has less than 400 horsepower, it's one stillborn rabbit.

The Charger weighs quite a bit more, so performance is still on par even with more bhp.

The ZL1 starts around 47 grand allegedly; that's waaaaaay more than the Z, which starts around 29-30K.

Get the Z blown/turboed and you have a competitor for about the same price :tiphat:

Also, I think the new Camaro looks as ugly as dog balls, but that's me. Kind of partial to the Charger, but very happy with my Zed :tup:

Speed, as always, is just a question of money. Ante up and buy the fastest car you can afford and not be embarrased to be seen in :D

You forgot one...
*cough* mustang gt *cough* 412 horsepower, low 30's *cough*

To be fair to jordo, OP didn't mention the Stang. Even then, I prefer the current z to the stang. Just personal pref.

Yes, OP did mention the mustang.

I have not driven the new 2011, but I liked driving the 370Z way better than the 05-09GT. It's faster, as well. I like the engineering and design of the 370Z better than the mustang, but it is down on power a bit.

I wonder if the technology that the IPL got (348bhp) will get into the Z somehow? That would be a nice thing for 2012.

The nismo z gets the same power as the IPL. Just has different exhaust, tune, few other goodies.

While I believe the Z has to fight those cars for the market share, they all offer completely different things, in my opinion.

All the cars OP mentioned, as well as the Mustang, are very heavy, and they're four seats. They, while catering to the same market, cater to different buyers. Loyal Mustang drivers tend to continue to drive Mustangs (hence buy Mustangs) for as long as they can for as long as they want. Brand loyalty means a lot. I think we're starting to split hairs as far as the "market" goes, we don't know how the current market will turn out as we get a decade in. Lighter weight and better power to weight ratio and high hp/lower displacement will probably win out over high displacement/high horsepower. Turbocharging is the current trend, although I'm not sure if anyone feels like lowering the reliability of a car just to provide lots of power (wait what am I saying of course people feel this way).

Don't blow me up but I read somewhere that Nissan was teaming up with Mercedes to build the next Z. It would have a Mercedes motor and Z styling.

I missed it, but you are right.

The Mustang GT, strictly in terms of $:hp is a better deal.

Speaking only for myself, I wanted a 370Z and I really don't want a new Mustang, so I can live without the extra power if it requires owning a Ford.

i heard that as well, and i dont know, a merc engine would be pricey to maintain as well as not too reliable looking at current trends, so i actually prefer a performance engine from nissan.

The point of my post IMO was to make the statement that more people who
Would at one time only consider the Z are now considering these
other cars. Weight, four seats or not. Styling and pure power sway alot
Of people. also I think most people looking at those other cars don't
even have the Z on their shopping list. the next Z IMO has got
To have some big time HP increase to keep up.
Even cadillac is doing it

I have no idea if my comments are on topic, but here goes:
I have some friends who are die-hard fans of American muscle. They would not consider a Z no matter how much horsepower.

I have some friends that are die hard German engineering. BMW, Audi and VW for them. They think the Z is cheap (I know, some of my friends are idiots).

I suspect some of those drawn to the rebirth of muscle are like me - they get obsessed with a new model, and whatever they are currently driving starts to look like the gangly girl with braces and acne at the school dance (so far my Z still looks like the prom queen to me...no, more like a stripper...I mean exotic dancer...you know, a classy one).

The Z doesn't compete with the cars you listed based on class (2 seat sports car vs. 2+2 sport coupes) but it does compete a bit with the Mustang 5.0, Camaro SS, and maybe the Challenger V8s on price. But I really don't think Nissan has their sights set on these cars. They were very clear in the beginning that they targeted the Cayman. I think they are more concerned with how well the Z stacks up against similarly classed 2-seaters over a wider price range.

I'm a little skeptical that Nissan would give a future Z much more power than the 370 already has. I think it's more likely that the Z either goes away (poor sales) or gets reinvented as a smaller, more efficient sports car (think 4-cyl turbo), or even some sort of hybrid sports car. It really depends on where they want to take the brand.

Consider that Nissan originally planned to sell 30,000+ units a year when they rolled out the 370. They only average a third of that a year. From a purely financial standpoint, I'd be more concerned about whether or not the Z program gets dropped moreso than I would be about it getting a power increase for the next model.

:iagree:
I dont see the Z around much longer. They aren't profiting from this car. I believe they'll make some minor changes, reinvent the car a little, however if the car continues to only sell ~10K cars a year, it wont be around much longer.

all comments are well said. It would be sad to see the Z dropped
From the Nissan line up. as one poster said the Z takes a back
Seat to no one when it comes to styling. But for better or worse
The flavor of the month right now is HP. And the Z is
Losing that battle and IMO has got to catch up or the car will
go away

Sonic, I have a couple of counter points, though.

• Keeping up with the Joneses mean you'll never be satisfied. I'm satisfied with what I've got, and even if the next Z was much faster, I couldn't afford to buy it, so I have to enjoy my Z for what it is.
• The Mazda Miata has survived for a long time as a sports car with low hp. HP sells cars, but there has to be a limit somewhere.
• If the Z dies, it may come back later, as we saw before.

It would be sad, but the Z has dissappeared before only to return again later. These things never truly die... Z, Camaro, Challenger, etc.

Great points. :tup:

The Z against the GT or SS is a proper comparison, but the ZL1 is going against the GT500 (or maybe the Boss depending on the final numbers for the ZL1). Nissan actually has no competitive car in the 50-70k range currently, which can deter some from looking.
In the 30k range or the 80k+ range Nissan competes very well though I would say, it just does not have anything in between.

Well said on all points. But have to disagree on the Mita statement. The Z is a
much better car. And staying in the Miata's playground is going backward.
To me it seems like the Z is caught in a no mans land. Somewhere between all the new products GM,Ford and even Dodge are bringing out.Like it or not imho nissan is in competition with those cars for the customers dollar.


No to get off point but most buyers don't want to buy a car to put mods on it
they want to leave the dealer with the HP ready to go.. But like i said that is imo.........

I wasn't putting the Z in the Miata's class, just raising the Miata as the counter-example to raising hp to survive. I agree that the Z's niche seems to be between a rock and a hard place right now. But you don't have to scale hp with the competition to survive. Sooner or later, car companies are going to figure this out again. Probably after the consumer tells them with their dollars, but that could be a while.

I heard the next revision for the G37 is 2012

Better car? No.

Different car, yes. The Miata is a cool little roadster.

And those doors... :yum:

I read somewhere that the Mercedes-Nissan partnership was to help Mercedes in rolling out some FWD cars. The article I read didn't say anything about the Z.

The new Charger and the SC Camero that is coming out is going to be alot more money then the Z as most guys have mentioned. Also when I think of "sports cars" I dont think of cars weighing close to or more then 2 tons!!. If I wanted to be the fastest car around I would have purchased the GT, but I dont like american cars and the GT as good as it looks is a little blend. Oh and the new SRT 8 will have 470HP and 470LB of torque according to CarandDriver and will do 0-60 in 4.5 and the quarter in 12.9, thats fast, but not that much faster then a stock Z.

Im going to go against popular belief that excessive power is good. I'd rather see Nissan focus on improved chassis, better suspension, lighter car, etc. Would much rather have a 375 HP V6 powered 3000 lb sports car than an overweight V8 truck like a Camaro or a Mustang.

Maybe offer a turbo edition for those fixated on HP.

:iagree:

I doubt they would every go anywhere over 400 HP, it would be too close to GT-R territory.

And I doubt they would get it down to 3,000 lbs with a big V6. 3,000 in a highly trimmed out car like the Z would be very expensive.

Even the $100+k 911s are still a bit over 3k.

But I still stand by my belief that there's a greater chance of the Z going away altogether (or being reinvented as a wimpier, eco-friendly sports car) than it getting a significant power bump (or weight reduction).

I agree, I dont know if any of you guys remember but when the 370 was in the concept stages Nissan was shooting for a target weight of around 2900, I remember reading it in a CarandDriver article and saying to myself that would be real impressive. LOL not that it mattered anyway cause I still bought one.

Get a 2012 GT-R if you want to destroy the Jones:

YouTube - Drag Race! 2012 Nissan GT-R vs 2011 Chevy Corvette Z06 vs 2011 Shelby GT500

Damn that AWD!

You can see at around the 1/8 mile - 1000' mark that the Z06 is able to stop the GTRs pull and start to gain. Damn AWD. :icon17:

I love that video. Close your eyes and listen to it, and then listen to the video I made.
YouTube - GT-R revs

^^^ Epic fail!!!

:bowrofl::bowrofl::bowrofl:

What people don't understand is... horsepower and straight line speed aren't everything. I didn't buy this car because it was the fastest car I could afford. I bought it because it had the perfect combination of speed, looks, and agility for a decent price. I could of went out and bought a twin turbo integra type r and still had 20 thousand dollars left over. Yeah it would be quick but who cares. It's garbage.

Yeah, car companys are making cheap horsepower these days but I rather drive a 332 hp 370z than a 400 hp Camaro ANYDAY.

:icon18: :icon18: :icon18: :icon18: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :roflpuke2: :roflpuke2: :roflpuke2: :roflpuke2:

:bowrofl::bowrofl::bowrofl::bowrofl:

:iagree:100%

amen!