I got a 2002 if you want it with only 218 miles. lol. :rofl2:

Still have that? What a shame. Good lookin car, and would be a great deal for someone who wants a badass 1/4 car.

You're right. I'd seen early pricing on the SS was going to be in the 40s... However, the LS3 they're using is a de-tuned version which will also be on a "No Compete" system that GM designed to make sure that the Camaro can't beat the Corvette. That being said, the production Camaros aren't going to be a problem in the straight line either for the time it takes tuners to figure out how to crack that GM garbage ECU.

Yeah, I know LSx's are no joke. I had one... I've had 3 Chevy 5.7L motors... My LS1 made power just by kicking it. The smallest mods make the biggest difference on those motors. Headers, intake, tune = 40WHP easy on the LS1.

Believe me, what you can squeeze out of all the N/A mods together on the VQ motors is NOTHING compared to the same mods on the LSx. I also still don't believe 37 WHEEL horse power from cats and exhaust on the VQ. But I know from personal experience that the LSx motors make more than that to the wheels with exhaust and a tune.

So, yeah, the Camaro may come stock as a show boat. 420+HP (Supposedly) is a lot of power, but the car weighs more than 12 1/2 Rosanne Bars. The power to weight ratio blows. If the Camaro really does 13.0 in the 1/4, I'll be very surprised. And even if it really does do it, it's 3 tenths of a second. That's not hard to make up on a light-weight car like the Z.

But that being said, LSx parts are practically interchangeable and there's a bagillion mods out there for the LSx platform. $2000 bucks will add another 50WHP on the LS3. (Maybe more.)

By the way, I just ran the current numbers for power/weight ratios:

Camaro: (3780Lbs / 422HP) = 8.957Lbs/HP

370z: (3232Lbs / 332HP) = 9.735Lbs/HP

They say the Camaro is pulling a 13 flat quarter mile. I'll be laughing until I see it.

EDIT:: Fixed transposition... Thanks VetterVert. (+1)

You might want to fix your transposition :) Otherwise, those are 2 very powerful cars!

VV

HAHA... You're right. :D Thanks... (it's late!)

Camaro: (3780Lbs / 422HP) = 8.957Lbs/HP

370z: (3232Lbs / 332HP) = 9.735Lbs/HP

Yeah, have fun after doing your full exhaust and intake.

How about, $1000 for 80-100 WHP from a simple cam-swap? How about, $1200 for HEADERS BACK, full exhaust? Sorry dude, mod for mod, LSX motors will always beat the VQ. I owned one, I know. But, as far as handling, it will never win over the 370. Not without a 500 lb diet, and even then...

I'll pass, I just sold my very-modded 2000 for $11000 lol

Do you know for certain that a cam swap on this new engine will be that simple??? Does the $1000 cover cam install??

Not disagreeing with you, but as one of the ealier post, and you yourself alude to: The Camaro was touted at being a 'sport' car, able to hang with the 350z for certain. Now I know why GM kept testing the V6 car... it's handeling appears to be better than the SS! Weight KILLS this car. As the test are showing, the SS does not even handle better than the 350..

On the track, it may hang with the 350 due to shear brute force, but it does not stand a chance against the 370 on the track (not strip....track). I will take a lightly modded and tuned Z over a full tuned SS. Honestly, I like the Stangs better than the Maro now....

Dudes... GM MAY have failed again with this Maro and may loose to the Stang yet AGAIN!

Not everybody wants to mod their brand new $30K+ car, void the factory warranty and likely significantly reduce driveability and reliability.

I've nothing specific against mods and frankly, I appreciate a well modified, unique vehicle so if that's what someone wants to do then by all means, mod away. But when you start talking modifications, comparisons between one car and another become pretty meaningless.

I thought the 370 was closer to 3400lbs not 3200. I wish it was but it's not

Let's face it in reality most people are going to race in the streets (in a strait line). Not many people are going race on a track or twisty road. I assume most of us are just regular everyday drivers and driving strait is easier than on a track or on the twisties. So, I think the straits count a little for me.

Base with manual is 3,232, touring is 3,278
Base with automatic is 3,269, touring is 3,314

Now, add in other little features that might have been left out by "official" numbers, and you are still well under 3400 even with a touring automatic.

I know for certain that $1000 would cover the cam, install and tune for the LSx. My friend owns Haddad Motorsport over here in Los Angeles. LSx motors are the most modded motors now. He was the first with a G8 (same exact motor and platform as the 2010 Camaro SS) to build aftermarket parts for. Within a couple of weeks of owning it, he had full exhaust, supercharger, suspension, etc... And the car was putting more than 480HP to the ground. He was working on an unlimited budget, but that was also more than a year ago. Now he already has the tunes and tools setup to simply start cranking out LS3 cammed cars.

I agree with the statement that LSx motors (no matter how old they are) just put down so much HP for cheap. Mod for mod, those motors can't be touched. That's the reason I've made my decision to put a heads/cam/intake/exhaust/tuned LS1 in my 300zx. :)

Well... I certainly HOPE you are not racing on public streets...... That would be illegal Sir... :shakes head:

It was becuase of knuckleheads racing on public streets that several fatal accidents occured here in Phx within a span of a few months... It also cause Police to REALLY crack down on any type of spirited driving.

Please do not street race.

I don't understand the point of this thread anymore as it has gone from being a I wonder if the Z can hang with the new SS before the numbers came out.

Now that we see that it can hang with the SS straight line numbers of course then the whole thing was oh SS has good numbers Z is close they are comparable. Facts and numbers out and no more speculation and now the debate is back to speculation?!? WTF

Its all variables end of the day if you choose to do so will lose against some camaro ss and beat some. Could be stock could possibly not be. My guess is on average most will be stock. Not everybody that gets a car does performance mods outside of Intake which is probably the most common.

You might get a Camaro that has exhaust work done doesnt mean he can drive. Could you still beat him if your in a stock Z or you have say a Intake? YUP.

But it is all woulda coulda,

No matter how great or whatever the camaro engine is. I have always been more impressed by doing more with less.

I am more impressed with the new Mustang than the SS because all GM did was dumb the base corvette engine into the car we seen on Transformers. Thats it. Did they really do much with that G8 platform if you read the Jalopinec review they say that the G8 is better pound for pound than the Camaro. America needs a shining light right now in the car industry and I believe they want that to be the camaro. GM didnt produce an engineering marvel they just dumped the Corvette engine in another car.

Ford actually took there current tech gave it a little bump in HP and produced a great vehicle that can handle.

PS. Yes the 3.7 in the Z is from the G but nissan touched the chasis lightened and upgraded interior. Reworked an already great car. It is hard to top an already great car. The new camaro is enjoying the success that the restored Z had in 03. It is no marvel but that is my 2 cents

Yes...it's illegal and stupid and while I've done my share of street racing in the past, I've also seen enough people die, including friends, that I know how monumentally stupid and dangerous illegal racing actually is.

Frankly, no one has the right to put other people's lives at risk so that they can fell like some hot shot racer.

I know a lot of guys think that they are different...that the bad wrecks and wrecked lives always happen to other people...I"m a better driver and on and on...I've heard it all and it's all garbage and rationalization.

There are enough track days and drag strips in this country to provide all the legal racing you want and you don't have to put anyone else's life at risk doing it.

Arrive alive.

I'm a Z owner and I like the new camero. Seeing the camaro at a couple shows, it was just too big for my tastes. I wanted something nimble to dart in an out of DC traffic. If you have not seen the camaro in person, its HUGE (I'm not just talking weight). When you sit in it, it feels massive. I didn't really see myself darting in and out of anything in that thing....except maybe my girlfriend since the seats recline :)

I bet it would be really fun on long country roads though.

As was stated - yes, on the cam swap. And dont forget, some of us like to do our own work ;). Its quite easy doing cam-swaps in LSX's - I did my own the first time with help from someone who did it before, and it was so simple.

And I dont disagree on the Z beating the new Camaro at all on the track - there is a reason I bought a new 370Z, versus getting the new Camaro - its too fat! WAY too fat. Ford is getting the new Mustang right. Its like, 400 lbs lighter, and if the new 5.0 comes out, it'll have power too. Pity it'll still be live axle, but oh well - what can you do. At least its living up to its heritage...

BTW, I think the weight numbers are off here - the 1SS weighed around 3900 lbs. Not 3780. Either way, I dont see the new Camaro as much of a "sports" car - more like a hybrid of a Muscle car, with a sports car rear end...

I had a feeling you would respond the way you did to the install of the cam. I have heard it was not too difficult and could be quite fun! And you are correct about the misstated weight. The SS is heavier than the GT500; imagine how heavy the Z28 would be if released... 4000 pounds+ ??

Either way, it was all hype about how the Camaro was going to be able to challenge the 370Z on the track. The more things change, the more they stay the same. I predict the majority of people will stick to what they are used to, aside from those in the minority such as you.

There is always a price to pay and diminishing returns to deal with as you start adding horsepower...for a vehicle (driveline, brakes, shocks, etc, etc.) to be able to handle 400 or 500 or more horsepower, those things have to be strengthened which often means added weight unless innovative (meaning expensive) materials are used. Individual consumers are free to get 600 RWH from an engine without actually making the car safe to handle it but a manufacturer can't do that and survive.

Then the is the simple fact that the more HP you get from an engine, the more you loose in the driveline.

Obviously, Chevrolet can build a world-class sports car and one need look no further than even the base Corvette, let alone the Z06 and ZR1 (although all versions of the 'Vette could use some real work on the interiors and options) but you can't build a Corvette at a Camaro price point.

If you love Chevrolet and/or GM and/or Camaros, you are probably going to love and support the new Camaro even with its shortcomings...if you aren't in the category, then I doubt the new Camaro is going to be the car you've "got to have".

I love Camaro's and I even have a GM discount, and yet, here I just got my 370 lol. Sad truth is, other than the Corvette, GM has nothing to offer me for a track superstar. And I wont lie, I love the 370's styling, so...I was ready to try something new.

The new Camaro looks hot. Its got balls. But its also got a lot of extra baggage that needs to go. Oh, what many in the GM performance world would have given to see a stripper version, as light as possible...even if they could get it down to 3500-3600 it would have been significantly better than 3900+...

I totally agree with that. GM cuts corners like construction paper.

The concept they had for the volt looked great, but they ended up putting in the Malibu body instead. The G8 is a pretty cool car, but now it will have a Chevy cousin. And there's really no mechanical difference between the cars at all. Platform, power train, drive train, suspension... Identical. I don't see that as an achievement, but rather a failure since they STILL are having problems getting them built even though they're just changing the body of a car already getting built! LOL Yet both cars achieve identical goals.

Now to say the Z's cousin is the G is not really correct. They don't share anything except for the motor and (for the automatics) the trans. The platform, suspension, seating, and drive train are different. They both achieve two different goals. One is a performance track car, while one is a luxury sports coupe. And both cars have highly distinguishable differences that actually help to make sense when actually trying to decide which car to buy. Purpose engineered cars with 2 completely separate markets sharing the same power train.

GM could have called this car anything they wanted. But as a marketing ploy they called it a Camaro and gave it some retro Camaro styling and marketed it to the fan boys out there. I expect that GM would have done the same for Firebirds if Pontiac didn't already have the G8... After all, what would be the point of that then? Hell, they even are going as far as to make a "FIREHAWK" G8!!! That's a sin right there.

I was just wondering wasn't the 4the gen camaros that the SS was the top of the line model and not the z28? I wonder why they are switching it.

I was looking into getting a stang but I wonder why it doesn't have a 6sp manual? Plus they said that the stang was just a carry over from 09 model (engine) right? At least it's lighter so when you do put some mods on it, it will fly

Yes, it was. But SS is played out in Chevy - so, Z28 probably sounds better.

^ to add some more info to that, Z28 has been the top dog in the past. The Z28 was born because they needed a race car to enter SCCA. So It started out that the Z28 was the race car, and the SS was the mainstream car. I believe with the 1996+ cars they switched it so that SS was top dog.

So then (on the current model) they had the choice os using SS or z28 (no plans to do both in the close future), and they went with SS since it was a badge all chevy shoppers recognize.

Actually, GM had planned to do the Z28 to battle the likes of the GT500. However, it was going to cost something like 50mm to complete all R&D and get the car out. GM did not think it prudent to be seen building such a car as this during their financial condition.

Both cars, SS and Z28, would have been sold just as the GT and GT500 are both sold.

TV - The Stangs do have the same engine from last year, but they have the 'Bullitt' tune meaning they have more power than last model year's GT. I have not heard they are lighter however; they still weigh in at about 3500 pounds with the GT500 weighing in at 3800+.

I'm still pretty sure they originally brought it out for the SCAA races. The first two years the z28 was out, they didn't even advertise it or produce any literature on it. They only sold something like, 200.

Edit:
But that's neither here nor there, moral of the story is that Z28 used to be the top model. :D

I have no idea what you're all talking about. The SS is still the top dog. The Z28 comes with a 6.0L LS2 and the SS comes with the 6.2L LS3.

The SS has been the top package since the LT1s. There wasn't an SS 3rd-gen as far as I know. For Camaros there were the following packages: Base, IROC-Z, Z28, RS, Pace Car, Indy Car and I think that's it.

The First and Second gen Camaros had an SS package.

The Z28 and the 302 used in it came to bout because of the SCCA requirements of having an engine that much displacement and no more I believe. So, the 350's couldn't be used specifically BECAUSE of displacement.

The LS2 wont be used - its been phased out and replaced w/ the LS3, so that wont be happening at all...

And just because the SS was the top package for 4th Gens, doesn;t mean that it'll stay that way :). I wouldnt be surprised if they go back to their roots and make a high-spinning, high-power 5.3L for the Z28 - that'd be bitchin...but probably not. It will more than likely just be the 6.2L LS3, but with some suspension/exhaust mods.

Actually, they were looking to use a supercharged version of some engine.. I can't remember if it was the same engine in the new Camero with a blower or what... But, it was suppose to push about 575 HP. This would be the new top dog Camaro. I think you can find it on worldcarfans.... I will see if I can find it...

Edit: Here is the link. I was off on the HP. Looks like they planned to use the CTSV's supercharged engine.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9090218....bility-returns

Correct. Which is just a slightly modified LS9.

Basically, that translates to: it'll be stupid easy to make LS9 or higher horsepower with it.

IF GM gets out of their mess and makes it!!! :rofl2:

I thought for the Z28 Chevy was using the L99 or whatever the motor is thats in the Vette ZR-1?

That is the LS9. Supercharged 6.2L.

The CTS-V is using a slightly modified LS9, called the LSA - which is interesting as it is...

*EDIT* Straight from wikipedia:

The supercharged 6.2 L LSA is similar to the LS9 and scheduled to debut in the 2009 Cadillac CTS-V. The LSA has been SAE certified at 556 hp (415 kW) @ 6100rpm and 551 lb·ft (747 N·m) of torque @ 3800rpm. GM labels it "the most powerful ever offered in Cadillac’s nearly 106-year history". The LSA features a smaller 1.9 L capacity supercharger rather than the 2.3 L variant of the LS9. Other differences include a slightly lower 9.0:1 compression ratio, single unit heat exchanger and cast pistons.

Gah...cast pistons. So to reep the full benefits, you'd need to swap the bottom end and swap the blower. Bam, you have an instant LS9 for the most part...

..invokes Godwin's Law


Chevy prefers SS because they like Hitler! :mad:

^ rofl

The Z/28 is supposed to be the top dog again if I understand it correctly which is, I believe, as it should be...Chevy has put the SS badge on so many things that should never have had it that the badge is almost meaningless now.

Whether the new top-dog Camaro will see the light of day, however, is another matter given GM's current troubles...even the drop-top Camaro was put on hold for a while but is now back on.