Hello Mark. Let's keep the discussion on topic-camaro. Enough of the elitist attitude. :rolleyes: By saying what you did about the "camaro owners" puts you in the "childish" category. Grow up.

My :twocents:

I respect Mustangs…I hate them and would not own one even if I worked for Ford but I still respect them and that’s pretty much how I feel about Dodge/Chrysler as well. :)<o></o>

I’ve owned four F-bodies three Pontiac’s (two of them TransAMs) and one Camaro (Z/28; an “00) and I’ve loved every single one of them but wouldn’t own a new Camaro over a Z even if I didn’t work for Nissan.

GMs powertrain, particularly is fabulous, interiors suck canal water but as someone mentioned, that’s not why you buy a Camaro (or a “Vette for that matter) but the interiors still suck and you really come to know that (and start to get irritated with it) as the cars get some age/use on them.

I like the looks of the new Camaro yet I really am disappointed with all the retro stuff going on…it’s funny; over at CamaroZ28.com there was a huge argument about whether the car was “retro” even though one of the lead designers said specifically that they wanted it to look as much like the “69 as possible!

Frankly, whether one likes the retro look or not, I think GM has missed that boat as I think the whole retro thing is one it’s way out even while GM is just now bring the Camaro to market.

I truly hope the new Camaro is successful and that they continue the car for succeeding generations but I think my F-body days are long gone and if I ever buy another GM product again, it will likely be something from the ‘60s or ‘70’s that I can restore and just have fun with.

Every review I've read on the new Camaro has been very positive.

Looks like it's a real competitor to the Z, unlike the Challenger and Mustang.

Frankly, I consider a true sports car like the Z to be so unlike a pony car that I've never considered them competition...there are just plain different animals.

I know some people will cross shop but it likely makes more sense to compare the Z to a Z4 or a Boxster or any other number of sports cars than any pony car.

edmunds just tested the camaro 13.0 @ 110 in the 1/4

Predictably, one of the Camaro's obvious rivals, the big-'n-brawny Dodge Challenger R/T can't keep pace. It takes 5.5 seconds for the Mopar to reach 60 mph (5.3 with 1 foot of rollout) and 13.9 seconds to reach the quarter-mile, at which point it's steaming along at 103.2 mph. In fact, the Camaro SS is slightly quicker in both measures than the similarly powered Challenger SRT8. The 2010 Mustang makes up for much of its 111-hp power deficit with about a 500-pound weight advantage on the hefty Camaro. The Mustang with a Track Pack will do zero to 60 mph in 5.2 seconds (4.9 with rollout) and get through the quarter-mile in 13.5 seconds at 102.9 mph. The Camaro is quicker through the quarter by half-a-second than the Nissan 370Z, which Chevy also considers a Camaro competitor

Yes now it is officially a competition now. All the other "Muscle Cars" didn't perform so well outside of the Mustang IMO. Now was is good that most Z owners should feel good about I think is that it shows Nissan's superior Engineering!! It takes chevy to drop in the base Corvette engine. They talk all they want about there V6 but "Hello McFly" the Z is a V6 that is leaps and bounds better than there V6 and the Z is so close to the performance of the top of the line Camaro that when Direct-Injection is added or the Nismo Version arrives the Z will be back on top of the performance numbers game, the Camaro already has Direct-Injection bTW. But with those numbers it is a drivers race anyway. I for one am extremely proud of what Nissan accomplished with the 370z and someone who cross shops these 2 cars will probably decide on necessity of a backseat and interior quality.

If someone is cross-shopping these 2 vehicles then the argument of a backseat should be settled as soon as the Z entered into the equation because

My opinion:
Exterior is subjective:

Interior is not Z wins hands down

Performance depends on how much rubber you like burning and big V-8 growl verses great handling. From a technical aspect the Z wins.


MC this is not directed at you at all. Just my rant on the topic:tiphat:

"With the Camaro, GM has chosen to stick with the muscle car archetype rather than push the limits of what's possible, it's not likely to win many conquests from more adept sportscars like the 370Z, Audi TT and BMW 3-series as Chevy hopes it will."

http://img.skitch.com/20090321-qhawm...p9g2eujsnx.jpg

Source

Damn $90 per HP that's too much.

But it only takes a couple of thousands to make the muscle car go faster where as the imports take at least double or triple to equal the muscle cars. That's one of the things I dont like about the imports. Takes to much just to get a few HP's.

a shot out between stang, camaro, and challenger
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...hotopanel..1.*

This link tests all the camaro's options
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._gt/index.html

So what do you guys think?
I thought it was pretty impressive numbers for a heavy car.

The lsx engines do net lots of gains very easily, but it's still a much heavier car. So a 10hp increase in a Z will do more than 10 hp in a camaro, fwiw.

Disagree with you there. Look at the gains on the Z with Catback and HFC's. 30+ HP!?!?! That is as good if not better than V8's. Oh, BTW that is about $2k in cost. Maybe a little more than the V8's, but darn close...

No.. the GTR has impressive numbers for a heavy car!! I KNOW I KNOW.. it cost how much??!?! I just had to say it... :tup:

It is, if that's your only basis for comparison.

But the Z is not about just horsepower, as some of its competitors seem to be. The Z's major advantage is superior handling and lighter weight. Less horsepower than most of the other "sports cars" in this price segment, but you know that the power it does have is still going to be usable when the road stops going straight.

The Camaro is a good competitor though, as I've said before. I think it's probably the best competitor to the Z among all these cars. I still think it's a Z for me, because I'd rather have handling than just pure power, but YMMV.

^^ werd.

The new Camaro :thumbsdown:

Too heavy, too blocky, poor interior, speculated to have an extremely poor resale value. BUT it does have backseats and halos which appeal to some...but not me.

The 370Z puts up disappointing numbers:

0-60 in 5.2 seconds
1/4 mile: 13.5 @ 103.7 mph




The Camaro SS numbers:

0-60 in 5.0 seconds
1/4 mile: 13.0 @ 110.9 mph
2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger R/T vs. 2010 Ford Mustang GT

These vids are both from edmunds.

The interior of the new camaro hits the mark. The console and gauges are very nice, and maintains the "retro" look.

Great my vid doesn't work as youtube is performing site maintenance. :(

I like the transformers movie :hello:

I never trust edmunds.

Here are some others:


Road and track:
2010 Chevrolet Camaro - First Test of Chevrolet's all-new 2010 Camaro - Motor Trend

Car and driver:
2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS V8 - Short Take Road Test/Corvette/Camaro Corner/High Performance/Hot Lists/Reviews/Car and Driver - Car And Driver

Popular Mechanics:
2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS Test Drive: Does the Reborn Ponycar Live Up to Its Name? - Popular Mechanics

The list goes on...they all put up the same #'s for the camaro.

Looks great from the outside, they took the retro design and did it better than challenger or mustang imho, but jesus christ, how many times do buyers have to ask for it:
MAKE IT SMALLER/LIGHTER STUPID!

And again, interior = horrible amount of plastic. Embarrassing.

Funny, I came here because I was directed through a Camaro forum... I ended up joining this site because I thought you were a bunch of level headed people.... personally I think both cars are great... and very close performace wise. The Camaro will take it in the straights, no doubt, and this version handles better than any other ever put out, lord knows it will handle better than my '67 Fbody !!!!! And on the flip-side, the Z will show the Camaro who is boss in the twisties, it's smaller, lighter, it's what it is made for !

They have very similar numbers in 0-60 and 60-0, too close in fact ! The Camaro does with brute force what the Z does with finess . It's kind of like comparing apples and oranges, but they perform so closely it makes you want to compare them any way.

My wife has already ordered her Camaro, she just had to have one, we ordered it on the first possible day ( Oct. 13th by the way ), and I will drive it and enjoy every second of it. But I have always wanted a Z, so if things work out the way they are supposed to, I will be getting my Z right after she takes delivery of her Camaro......

Then we shall see....

Apples or Oranges ?

I've owned several F-bodies.

Frankly, I'm finding the numbers the Camaro SS is putting down somewhat disappointing; especially the handling.

Don't misunderstand; its numbers aren't bad and in fact they are good but with 426HP and five years to develop the car; I expected more.

I think it's a great car and will be a hell of a lot fun to drive but for my money, I think I'd buy a one or two year old "Vette.

I definitely think it's apples and oranges (although that wouldn't stop me from throwing my .02 in anyway). The camaro is great for what it is, a decently priced muscle car where refinements like interior comes in second place for performance and the aforementioned lower price. The people here who are into Z's are a different breed. Wanting a solid performer, sure, but also concerned with a higher quality ride and interior. And eff it, we are willing to give up some HP for the higher quality.

I've owned several f-bods and several vettes as well, but I'm afraid they will lose my business this time around. As someone who as owned so many GM performance vehicles, I wanted to love the new camaro, but (as I mentioned above) I've hit a point in my life where straight line performance is cool, but a quick, comfortable, traffic carver with nice interior refinements is a little more attractive.

While I'm the first person to say I wish the 370 had been a 350+hp car, how do you mean the numbers are disappointing? When I heard the HP, I was expecting it to run 13.5-13.6. The 4th gen f-bods they killed off in 02 weighed 3,411lbs, had about 325 hp, and ran 13.6 in the mags.
So, the Z weighs around 200lbs less and runs .1 - .2 seconds quicker in the quarter mile? Makes sense, and everyone should have expected these QM times.

(Sorry to be one of those guys who post several posts in a row, I keep thinking I'm done responding and I'm not! :tup:)

I'm confused in the bolded part of your question. The Z isn't quicker than the SS.


Disappointing to me as I thought it was going to beat a much heavier car in 0-60 and quarter mile times.

Again, I am referring to the 4th gens, of which the Z is indeed quicker. My post was to comment in the similar weight, HP, and QM times of the 4th gen versus the 370, and how we could have all predicted how fast the 370 was going to be once we knew the HP, simply because it was so similar to the 4th gen.
http://www.extreme-z.com/appearance/fc05.JPG

Here's an interesting review from about.com, haven't seen it posted yet.

2010 Chevrolet Camaro Coupe - Test drive and new car review - 2010 Chevrolet Camaro Coupe

What about handling? The Camaro certainly grips the road well, but it goes through the corners with a slightly disconnected feel, as if the chassis isn't 100% fluent in whatever language the steering wheel is speaking. V8 models have a stiffer suspension (plus huge brakes) and drive a bit better, and both versions ride comfortably. But the Camaro's width -- exaggerated by the slit-shaped windshield and broad hood -- is intimidating on narrow roads. Chevy wants the Camaro to take on proper sports cars like the Nissan 370Z, and while the Camaro delivers a 426 hp V8 for about the same price ($30,995) as the Z's 330 hp V6, there's more to a sports car than power. The Camaro just isn't in the same league.

^ very interesting mate. In motortrend, they were comparing the camaro, challenger, and new stang gt, and the stang actually outperformed the other two in the skidpad.
.95 for mustang
.90 for camaro
.82 for challenger

What did you do; look around for the worst numbers you could find for the 370??? :)

Motortrend has reported:
For the 370Z...
0-60 in 4.7 sec.
1/4 in 13.3 @ 105.7
Lat Acel: 0.99g

and For the Camaro SS...
0-60 in 4.7 sec.
1/4 in 13.0 @ 111
Lat Acel: 0.90g

2009 Nissan 370Z - Specs and Test Data - First Test - Motor Trend

2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS vs 2009 Dodge Challenger R/T vs 2010 Ford Mustang GT - Specs and Road Test Data - Motor Trend

Not to take magazine comparisons too far but it seems pretty clear that in anything other than a straight line, the Z wins against the Bow-Tie and even in a straight line, the difference is rather small which is really a bit odd given the decided weight/HP advantage the Camaro holds over the 370.

Obviously, despite some obvious similarities, these are two different cars aimed, for the most part, at two different market segments so in that sense, it really doesn't matter how they stack up to each other.

That said, the 370Z holds its own against many, many other performance vehicles including the new Camaro SS and including some costing significantly more than the Z.

As I said earlier, the Camaro SS' horsepower is impressive and its numbers are certainly respectable; but I expected more.

^ironically, the 1/4 time is closer between the Z and the camaro than the camaro and challenger. :icon14:

And yet, they bash the Z's power.

Maybe the Challenger just isn't getting its HP to the ground as well as it should???

^ Well, the challenger is 300lbs heavier than the camaro, and comes with the skinniest tires of the group. It's also BY FAR the worst handler with an embarrassing .82 on the skidpad.

Actually, the power to weight ratio isn't that much of an advantage for the SS. I've already done the number quite a few times in different threads, but the fact is that it's got a power advantage, but not a weight advantage. The Z is more than 500Lbs lighter than the SS.

For all I care, they can bash the Z's power all they want. But our V6 puts down more power than theirs with a LOT more advances in technology on top of it. The LSx motor is a great motor, but in the end, it's still old technology. And when the SS can't keep up with the Z in the twisties, it will be us bashing their crappy suspension and obese platform.

The LS3 that's in the SS is going to make the SS a very expensive car. What ever the balance is between the SS and the Z, you can put into the Z to make enough extra power to get into the 12s.


370z FTMFW!

^ouch!. Nice find Pushing Tin

You can get an 1SS for 30K, and modding an LS3 will be stupid easy compared to a 370Z. The only leg a 370Z has on the new Camaro is handling, as far as performance wise. GM's LSX motors are no joke.

^ 37 hp from cats and exhaust in a 370z. So don't be too quick to rule out the Z:
http://www.the370z.com/engine-drivet...s-stopped.html