Automobile Magazine: 40th Anniv 370Z versus new Mustang GT

ImportConvert · 10-20-2010, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDreamer

Well, there are some reasons for that.
The Camaro did not exist for how many years? The 4.6L Mustang run 0.1 second slower than the current Camaro SS and then less than a year later we have the updated 5.0L and the Mustang wipes the floor with it.
No it doesn't, depending on the magazine article you read, either car "wins" at the drags. I wish I had had a chance to run a new 5.0 in my WS6 to see for myself in the real-world, though.

What does GM do to respond, they start to rush out a z28. Not saying it was already going to happen, as it was, but countless people inside GM said the Z28 had been delayed, delayed, delayed and then they said they have been working hard for the past few months trying to get a Z28 to market quickly.
All they needed to do was shove the LSA under the hood and put some wider tires on it and stiffen the suspension a tad. They already had all the parts. Nothing seems "rushed" to me.

I will honest, I am very happy to see this fight begin again. Now if a real Dodge contender would step up, but we all know that will not happen again.
I think it's good, too. Duke it out, have some fun, talk some smack, and pump some $$ into the economy. Regardless of the brands involved, I am a fan of it, too. (The last Challenger R/T I ran was the 376bhp 6-speed version and it was weaksos. Maybe the 6.4L will be a contender?)

My 2001 F-body was just as fast as the 2010 F-body. GM failed regarding the 5th gen.

I heard the Z28 will correct interior shortcomings. If it does, then it might be something. However, I regard the 5th gen F-body as an excercise in failure. The 2005 mustang GT was WAY! better than the 2004. The 2011, way better than the 2010. The new F-body---well, I would buy a moth-balled 2002 before I would buy a new 2010. I think they look better, and they perform AT LEAST as well.

rj45 · 10-20-2010, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

My 2001 F-body was just as fast as the 2010 F-body. GM failed regarding the 5th gen.

I heard the Z28 will correct interior shortcomings. If it does, then it might be something. However, I regard the 5th gen F-body as an excercise in failure. The 2005 mustang GT was WAY! better than the 2004. The 2011, way better than the 2010. The new F-body---well, I would buy a moth-balled 2002 before I would buy a new 2010. I think they look better, and they perform AT LEAST as well.

I have to disagree regarding the new Camaro...it's not a failure, IMO. The car certainly isn't perfect, but it has a lot going for it. It's a striking design and the overall build/fit-n-finish is noticeably improved compared to previous generations. Actually, it's not even close. The chassis is way more rigid...the car finally has a solid, quality feel. True, the straight-line performance isn't as good as it could be, but it's not a slug, either. Overall handling is improved, it corners with more confidence and rides well. The IRS is a welcome addition (except for the drag guys). The Brembo brakes are beefier, too. Of course, a pony-car is not a pure sports car, never will be.

My pop had one for about a year. He's more of a truck guy, so he traded it for another truck, but he did like the car. Looks are subjective, but the car got compliments everywhere he went, even a year after introduction. When new, my previous gen F-body never got anywhere near as many positive remarks. Personally, I think the new car is much sharper looking. The interior? Well, I don't think the design is as good as it could be, though the seats are well done. I also like the gauges and the door panel design. The radio/HVAC console does need a redo, IMO. Impressively, the new interior is drum tight and rattle-free, a big improvement over old.

So, I think it's a stretch calling the new car a failure. Again, it's not perfect...it's big/heavy, certain interior design elements need attention, performance is only good, not great and visibility is poor, but the new Camaro is no disgrace, IMO. It's a significant improvement over old.

My $0.02

Red370 · 10-20-2010, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rj45

I have to disagree regarding the new Camaro...it's not a failure, IMO. The car certainly isn't perfect, but it has a lot going for it. It's a striking design and the overall build/fit-n-finish is noticeably improved compared to previous generations. Actually, it's not even close. The chassis is way more rigid...the car finally has a solid, quality feel. True, the straight-line performance isn't as good as it could be, but it's not a slug, either. Overall handling is improved, it corners with more confidence and rides well. The IRS is a welcome addition (except for the drag guys). The Brembo brakes are beefier, too. Of course, a pony-car is not a pure sports car, never will be.

My pop had one for about a year. He's more of a truck guy, so he traded it for another truck, but he did like the car. Looks are subjective, but the car got compliments everywhere he went, even a year after introduction. When new, my previous gen F-body never got anywhere near as many positive remarks. Personally, I think the new car is much sharper looking. The interior? Well, I don't think the design is as good as it could be, though the seats are well done. I also like the gauges and the door panel design. The radio/HVAC console does need a redo, IMO. Impressively, the new interior is drum tight and rattle-free, a big improvement over old.

So, I think it's a stretch calling the new car a failure. Again, it's not perfect...it's big/heavy, certain interior design elements need attention, performance is only good, not great and visibility is poor, but the new Camaro is no disgrace, IMO. It's a significant improvement over old.

My $0.02

My $0.02

ImportConvert · 10-20-2010, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rj45

I have to disagree regarding the new Camaro...it's not a failure, IMO. The car certainly isn't perfect, but it has a lot going for it. It's a striking design and the overall build/fit-n-finish is noticeably improved compared to previous generations. Actually, it's not even close. The chassis is way more rigid...the car finally has a solid, quality feel. True, the straight-line performance isn't as good as it could be, but it's not a slug, either. Overall handling is improved, it corners with more confidence and rides well. The IRS is a welcome addition (except for the drag guys). The Brembo brakes are beefier, too. Of course, a pony-car is not a pure sports car, never will be.

My pop had one for about a year. He's more of a truck guy, so he traded it for another truck, but he did like the car. Looks are subjective, but the car got compliments everywhere he went, even a year after introduction. When new, my previous gen F-body never got anywhere near as many positive remarks. Personally, I think the new car is much sharper looking. The interior? Well, I don't think the design is as good as it could be, though the seats are well done. I also like the gauges and the door panel design. The radio/HVAC console does need a redo, IMO. Impressively, the new interior is drum tight and rattle-free, a big improvement over old.

So, I think it's a stretch calling the new car a failure. Again, it's not perfect...it's big/heavy, certain interior design elements need attention, performance is only good, not great and visibility is poor, but the new Camaro is no disgrace, IMO. It's a significant improvement over old.

My $0.02

It lost the T-tops. Lots of people liked those. Lots of people hated them.
It gained 300#. Fail.

The LS1 brakes were pretty good. 60-0 in 117' with the tires of the time.

Acceleration is unchanged.

IRS is good.

I think the old Trans Am looks better than the new Camaro, while the Z28
Yes, over-all quality is definitely up.

Still, GM has made every generation Camaro MUCH faster (LS1>LT1>350TPI) This one LS3=LS1 given the platform differences. I don't think that's good.

Still, I concede a lot of your points. Mainly in the QC dept.

rj45 · 10-20-2010, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

It lost the T-tops. Lots of people liked those. Lots of people hated them.
It gained 300#. Fail.

The LS1 brakes were pretty good. 60-0 in 117' with the tires of the time.

Acceleration is unchanged.

IRS is good.

I think the old Trans Am looks better than the new Camaro, while the Z28
Yes, over-all quality is definitely up.

Still, GM has made every generation Camaro MUCH faster (LS1>LT1>350TPI) This one LS3=LS1 given the platform differences. I don't think that's good.

Still, I concede a lot of your points. Mainly in the QC dept.

I agree with you, the weight is a bit of a disappointment. Although, it's not useless flab. The new car does carry more safely related hardware and the fore-mentioned beefed-up chassis. Considering present day fuel mileage requirements, I'm surprised they gave the new, heavier car as much power as they did.

I think if the next gen car is built on the rumored smaller chassis and includes various weight saving materials, the result will be very good. Then the car would roll with 425-450hp.

I do like the '11 Mustang GT (great photo Red370!). If I were in the market for a new pony car, I'd choose the GT over the Camaro. Its size, interior design and handling are more to my liking...plus, the 5.0 sounds awesome!

Red370 · 10-20-2010, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rj45

I agree with you, the weight is a bit of a disappointment. Although, it's not useless flab. The new car does carry more safely related hardware and the fore-mentioned beefed-up chassis. Considering present day fuel mileage requirements, I'm surprised they gave the new, heavier car as much power as they did.

I think if the next gen car is built on the rumored smaller chassis and includes various weight saving materials, the result will be very good. Then the car would roll with 425-450hp.

I do like the '11 Mustang GT (great photo Red370!). If I were in the market for a new pony car, I'd choose the GT over the Camaro. Its size, interior design and handling are more to my liking...plus, the 5.0 sounds awesome!

you couldnt be more right buddy. Mine is sex.

rj45 · 10-20-2010, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red370

you couldnt be more right buddy. Mine is sex.

Sounds mean!

280z/300zx · 10-20-2010, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImportConvert

Still, GM has made every generation Camaro MUCH faster (LS1>LT1>350TPI) This one LS3=LS1 given the platform differences. I don't think that's good.

.

What specs are you looking at. The LS1 was a mid-low 13 sec car while the LS3 is a high 12 to low 13 sec car. Sure it's not leaps and bounds faster but it is faster. Kind of like how the 370z is faster than the 350z, not a huge amount faster, but faster. Not to mention the LS3 has launch control which helps with getting a good launch. Had a 2001 Trans AM LS1 and C6 LS2 and now have a 2010 SS LS3. The Camaro is faster than the Trans AM but not the C6 LS2. Butt dyno and track proven with all three during ownership. Not to mention the Camaro destroyed the Trans AM in auto-x when we took them both. This gen Camaro, aside from weight, is a better car than the previous gen.

Mustang 5.0 owns all, except for the LS3 Vette.

ImportConvert · 10-20-2010, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 280z/300zx

What specs are you looking at. Having raced them The LS1 was a mid-low 13 sec car while the LS3 is a high 12 to low 13 sec car. Sure it's not leaps and bounds faster but it is faster. More like "within 3 feet of dead-equal from 60 to the top of 4th" Kind of like how the 370z is faster than the 350z, not a huge amount faster, but faster. Not to mention the LS3 has launch control which helps with getting a good launch. Very true Had a 2001 Trans AM LS1 and C6 LS2 and now have a 2010 SS LS3. The Camaro is faster than the Trans AM Then your TA had an issue or mine was a freak, but every new SS I ran was a dead-heat and we could have held hands during the whole race out the window (not that stupid obviously, but literally it could have been done.)but not the C6 LS2. Butt dyno and track proven with all three during ownership. Not to mention the Camaro destroyed the Trans AM in auto-x when we took them both. This gen Camaro, aside from weight, is a better car than the previous gen.

Mustang 5.0 owns all, except for the LS3 Vette.

I can't speak for handling, we don't have twisties around here.

FWIW, my friend ran 13.3@105 in his bone-stock 113K mile 1998 automatic Z28 with flowmasters (10whp penalty).
Another friend ran 12.9@107 in his bone-stock 98 6-speed WS6.
Most people ran 13.1-13.3 at my track with stock F-bodies. A lid/catback had them into the 12's repeatedly.

I babied the heck out of my 100K mile (at that time) WS6 M6 and ran 14.0X@101.9 with a 2.4 60' time (assuming a 2.0 60' would put me at 13.2XX and I am sure the MPH would go up as well) launching off idle and then bogging badly and shifting into 4th 75' before the beams. On the street, as you can see, the car did much better as I wasn't scared of blowing the rear end up on a roll'on. (I had just blown the rear backin out of the drive-way before I went to the strip, hence the weak launches. I was in college and couldn't afford to break it and was still dumb enough to race it.)

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