Camaro board "Z only real competitor"

[m4a1mustang]

Originally Posted by shadoquad

Three words, son... Ess Are Ayyyy... lol jk. Been a while since I busted that one out.

[GZ3]

^^^

[m4a1mustang]

Originally Posted by GZ3

^^^

Don't mind us, we're just speaking a super secret language found only in the DC/MD/VA area.

[shadoquad]

Originally Posted by GZ3

^^^

It's a joke. Ppl used to say the Mustang is slow because of its solid rear axle (hence SRA).

[Jamaica]

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

I have plenty of seat time as well. I have no doubt the Brembo 5.0 is the faster car stock-for-stock around a track. It's better balanced, has better brakes, and can put the power down a lot better for a nice exit.

It drives much differently than the Z, though. I'd say it's a lot harder to drive the 5.0 fast than it is the Z.

The only place I could see the Z having an advantage is in Auto X. Lighter, shorter wheel base, and more nimble. Everywhere else the Brembo 5.0 has the edge.

Not knocking on the Z at all... just sharing my experience.

when i test drove it it seemed soo heavy thou.

[m4a1mustang]

Originally Posted by jamaica951

when i test drove it it seemed soo heavy thou.

Brembo GT?

It is bigger and heavier, you definitely feel it. The Z feels smaller and more nimble but that feel is kind of deceptive in that it makes you think the car is actually a better handler than the 5.0. They are just different feels and take different styles of driving.

The Z is more precise but it also has a lot of understeer built in, so it's got more of that "on rails" feeling when you push it really hard. You will lose the front end of the Z before you lose the rear if you really try to attack a corner too hard.

The Mustang is almost perfectly neutral in balance. It rotates the corner a lot better and can really exit well because of it. It's just a lot harder to drive fast because it's so much more free to rotate. You tend to slide more in the 5.0 and that makes it really difficult for an inexperienced driver to get it to go around a track quickly.

IMO if you put a total newb out on track in a Z and a Brembo 5.0, he'd probably be quicker early on with the Z because it's (based on my experience) much easier to drive at the limit. But a more experienced driver will be able to hustle the Mustang around the track a lot quicker.

Whatever, though. To each his own. If I could afford to do it right now I'd still have my 370Z and my 5.0 in the driveway.

Edit: And if I could really afford it I'd also have a drop top 5.0 and 370Z Roadster.

[GZ3]

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Brembo GT?

It is bigger and heavier, you definitely feel it. The Z feels smaller and more nimble but that feel is kind of deceptive in that it makes you think the car is actually a better handler than the 5.0. They are just different feels and take different styles of driving.

The Z is more precise but it also has a lot of understeer built in, so it's got more of that "on rails" feeling when you push it really hard. You will lose the front end of the Z before you lose the rear if you really try to attack a corner too hard.

The Mustang is almost perfectly neutral in balance. It rotates the corner a lot better and can really exit well because of it. It's just a lot harder to drive fast because it's so much more free to rotate. You tend to slide more in the 5.0 and that makes it really difficult for an inexperienced driver to get it to go around a track quickly.

IMO if you put a total newb out on track in a Z and a Brembo 5.0, he'd probably be quicker early on with the Z because it's (based on my experience) much easier to drive at the limit. But a more experienced driver will be able to hustle the Mustang around the track a lot quicker.

Whatever, though. To each his own. If I could afford to do it right now I'd still have my 370Z and my 5.0 in the driveway.

Edit: And if I could really afford it I'd also have a drop top 5.0 and 370Z Roadster.

hey M4, did you have any links where the gt beats a 370Z anywhere besides lightning lap?? if not, no worries...i looked and couldnt find anything...just needed some morning readin'

[m4a1mustang]

Originally Posted by GZ3

hey M4, did you have any links where the gt beats a 370Z anywhere besides lightning lap?? if not, no worries...i looked and couldnt find anything...just needed some morning readin'

You can check the 5.0 vs. M3 at Willow video where they are dead even. Otherwise there really aren't any direct comparos between the Z and 5.0 that I know of.

[m4a1mustang]

Yeah, they beat the M3 around Laguna Seca by over 3 seconds on the first lap out. And 3 seconds on Laguna is a LOT of time.

[Endgame]

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Yeah, they beat the M3 around Laguna Seca by over 3 seconds on the first lap out. And 3 seconds on Laguna is a LOT of time.

LOL!! That is so 'boss" (took it back to the 70's with that phrase!)

This shows that the Stang and the Z are really in different segments. Nissan created the Z to fight the Cayman. Ford created the Stang to take down the M3s and Camaros by default. I am not saying that they will not be crossed shop'd, but it is a key point....

The Boss should beat a M3 off the lot, and the Z, with a few light mods will hang with for certain, and probally beat a Cayman S on the track. Both cars accomplish their goals at a much more cost effective price. Not to mention you can work on the Stang and Z yourself if you like.

Auto fans rejoice!! I say all that but still do not take anything away from the M3 or Cayman.

[Shamu]

Originally Posted by m4a1mustang

Yeah, they beat the M3 around Laguna Seca by over 3 seconds on the first lap out. And 3 seconds on Laguna is a LOT of time.

Ford team has a long time Porsche racer on their suspension team. He was out testing the Mustang on Laguna Seca over a year ago and called it a M3 beater. However it doesnt suprise me that they beat the M3 as Laguna Seca is primarily a power course. Boss Mustang has hp advantage from first straight until they get to top of the hill into the corkscrew. As a guy who has chased high hp cars on that track it doesnt tell me much about a cars handling potential, but clearly Mustangs are getting much better. Also critical to look at what tires were on cars at time test occurred. Sometimes tires can make all the difference in the world.

I'd love to see more track comparos of the 370Z nismo verses Cayman S, base model Vette, Mustang Boss, Camaro SS, BMW 135i M, RX8, etc.

Randy Pobst put a new generation Cayman S around track over 3 seconds faster than a 370Z Nismo on Laguna Seca. I think that says a whole lot about how superior handling in Cayman is as the two cars have nearly identical power to weight ratios.

2009 Nissan Nismo 370Z Laps Laguna Seca - 2009 Motor Trend Best Driver's Car Competition Feature - Motor Trend Video

2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS Hot Lap At Laguna Seca - 2009 Best Driver's Car Feature - Motor Trend Video

2009 Porsche Cayman S Laps Laguna Seca - 2009 Best Driver's Car Video



I could have bought a used Cayman S but I liked the Nismo version of the 370 Z better. I think with a little setup work the Nismo can actually be faster than a stockish Cayman. Nissans tunning potential is much greater. Porsche is squeezing a lot of HP from those little 3.4 liter flat sixes and there isnt much you can do other than very expensive turbo kit to get more HP. Nismo on the other hand will reward intakes, free flowing cats, etc with some real HP gains.

[Mt Tam I am]

Originally Posted by Shamu

Ford team has a long time Porsche racer on their suspension team. He was out testing the Mustang on Laguna Seca over a year ago and called it a M3 beater. However it doesnt suprise me that they beat the M3 as Laguna Seca is primarily a power course. Boss Mustang has hp advantage from first straight until they get to top of the hill into the corkscrew. As a guy who has chased high hp cars on that track it doesnt tell me much about a cars handling potential, but clearly Mustangs are getting much better. Also critical to look at what tires were on cars at time test occurred. Sometimes tires can make all the difference in the world.

I'd love to see more track comparos of the 370Z nismo verses Cayman S, base model Vette, Mustang Boss, Camaro SS, BMW 135i M, RX8, etc.

Randy Pobst put a new generation Cayman S around track over 3 seconds faster than a 370Z Nismo on Laguna Seca. I think that says a whole lot about how superior handling in Cayman is as the two cars have nearly identical power to weight ratios.

2009 Nissan Nismo 370Z Laps Laguna Seca - 2009 Motor Trend Best Driver's Car Competition Feature - Motor Trend Video

2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS Hot Lap At Laguna Seca - 2009 Best Driver's Car Feature - Motor Trend Video

2009 Porsche Cayman S Laps Laguna Seca - 2009 Best Driver's Car Video



I could have bought a used Cayman S but I liked the Nismo version of the 370 Z better. I think with a little setup work the Nismo can actually be faster than a stockish Cayman. Nissans tunning potential is much greater. Porsche is squeezing a lot of HP from those little 3.4 liter flat sixes and there isnt much you can do other than very expensive turbo kit to get more HP. Nismo on the other hand will reward intakes, free flowing cats, etc with some real HP gains.

I still can not believe that the Camero gets round the track ahead of the Z. These cars never get round the turns in the real world. Hats off to the driver .

[Endgame]

Originally Posted by Shamu

Ford team has a long time Porsche racer on their suspension team. He was out testing the Mustang on Laguna Seca over a year ago and called it a M3 beater. However it doesnt suprise me that they beat the M3 as Laguna Seca is primarily a power course. Boss Mustang has hp advantage from first straight until they get to top of the hill into the corkscrew. As a guy who has chased high hp cars on that track it doesnt tell me much about a cars handling potential, but clearly Mustangs are getting much better. Also critical to look at what tires were on cars at time test occurred. Sometimes tires can make all the difference in the world.

I'd love to see more track comparos of the 370Z nismo verses Cayman S, base model Vette, Mustang Boss, Camaro SS, BMW 135i M, RX8, etc.

Randy Pobst put a new generation Cayman S around track over 3 seconds faster than a 370Z Nismo on Laguna Seca. I think that says a whole lot about how superior handling in Cayman is as the two cars have nearly identical power to weight ratios.

2009 Nissan Nismo 370Z Laps Laguna Seca - 2009 Motor Trend Best Driver's Car Competition Feature - Motor Trend Video

2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS Hot Lap At Laguna Seca - 2009 Best Driver's Car Feature - Motor Trend Video

2009 Porsche Cayman S Laps Laguna Seca - 2009 Best Driver's Car Video



I could have bought a used Cayman S but I liked the Nismo version of the 370 Z better. I think with a little setup work the Nismo can actually be faster than a stockish Cayman. Nissans tunning potential is much greater. Porsche is squeezing a lot of HP from those little 3.4 liter flat sixes and there isnt much you can do other than very expensive turbo kit to get more HP. Nismo on the other hand will reward intakes, free flowing cats, etc with some real HP gains.

i do not think it is the Cayman S's suspension in as much as it is weight and PDK. I bet a tuned base Z with Sport pack will be much closer to the new Cayman S. The regular Z weighs more than a Cayman S, but the Nismo weighs even more than the standard Z. Drop 50 pounds from the non Nismo, exhaust, intake, suspension mods and better tires. Game on (at least a little more); and at less cost than the CS.

[Shamu]

Originally Posted by Endgame

i do not think it is the Cayman S's suspension in as much as it is weight and PDK. I bet a tuned base Z with Sport pack will be much closer to the new Cayman S. The regular Z weighs more than a Cayman S, but the Nismo weighs even more than the standard Z. Drop 50 pounds from the non Nismo, exhaust, intake, suspension mods and better tires. Game on (at least a little more); and at less cost than the CS.

I would say it goes far beyond suspension advantage as the Cayman S has superior rear mid engine configuration, better chassis dynamics and very good brakes. Also think we have to keep conversations stock to stock as a Cayman S with good coil over system, intake , exhaust and light wheels would rock a 370z.

I also get a kick out of the belief that a 370z with same size wheels is significantly lighter than a Nismo. For track work I think the Nismo aero dynamics are superior as well. 50lbs on a car like 370z with high hp isn't going to impact lap times significantly. I'd say suspension, power, chassis stiffening and aero of the Nismo can more than justify the few lbs the car weighs over the standard car.

[flashburn]

Nice, they didn't mention by how much on the show. That is very, very impressive.